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Captainjc9
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Airbus A320neo Black Cockpit Window Mask

Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:18 pm

Hi All,

I know the Airbus A350 has a black 'mask' for the cockpit windows, will the Airbus A320neo and the newer A321neo/A321XLR have the Airbus black mask?

Thanks!
Captainjc9
 
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zeke
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Re: Airbus A320neo Black Cockpit Window Mask

Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:25 pm

Captainjc9 wrote:
Hi All,

I know the Airbus A350 has a black 'mask' for the cockpit windows, will the Airbus A320neo and the newer A321neo/A321XLR have the Airbus black mask?

Thanks!
Captainjc9


It’s paint, you can put it in any aircraft you like.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
Woodreau
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Re: Airbus A320neo Black Cockpit Window Mask

Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:33 pm

The 320neos that my airline operates do not have the black mask.
Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
 
Captainjc9
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Re: Airbus A320neo Black Cockpit Window Mask

Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:36 pm

zeke wrote:
Captainjc9 wrote:
Hi All,

I know the Airbus A350 has a black 'mask' for the cockpit windows, will the Airbus A320neo and the newer A321neo/A321XLR have the Airbus black mask?

Thanks!
Captainjc9


It’s paint, you can put it in any aircraft you like.


Yes but some aircraft like the A350 requires it, so I was wondering if the A320neo series requires the black mask?
 
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airportugal310
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Re: Airbus A320neo Black Cockpit Window Mask

Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:51 pm

Captainjc9 wrote:
zeke wrote:
Captainjc9 wrote:
Hi All,

I know the Airbus A350 has a black 'mask' for the cockpit windows, will the Airbus A320neo and the newer A321neo/A321XLR have the Airbus black mask?

Thanks!
Captainjc9


It’s paint, you can put it in any aircraft you like.


Yes but some aircraft like the A350 requires it, so I was wondering if the A320neo series requires the black mask?


Respectfully, if the aircraft required it, it would be on all the A320n series aircraft...and it isn't. Therefore...
“They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.”
 
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zeke
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Re: Airbus A320neo Black Cockpit Window Mask

Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:54 pm

Captainjc9 wrote:
Yes but some aircraft like the A350 requires it, so I was wondering if the A320neo series requires the black mask?


Not a requirement for the A350, many aircraft before the A350 had black paint, particularly under the windows. Air Canada comes to mind.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
Captainjc9
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Re: Airbus A320neo Black Cockpit Window Mask

Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:44 am

zeke wrote:
Captainjc9 wrote:
Yes but some aircraft like the A350 requires it, so I was wondering if the A320neo series requires the black mask?


Not a requirement for the A350, many aircraft before the A350 had black paint, particularly under the windows. Air Canada comes to mind.


Simple Flying asked Airbus about the reason for the A350 having the black mask, here was a part of their response: “The emblematic “Ray-Ban” like black windshield eases the window’s maintenance and contributes to harmonising the thermal condition of this temperature-sensitive window area.”
 
Captainjc9
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Re: Airbus A320neo Black Cockpit Window Mask

Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:46 am

airportugal310 wrote:
Captainjc9 wrote:
zeke wrote:

It’s paint, you can put it in any aircraft you like.


Yes but some aircraft like the A350 requires it, so I was wondering if the A320neo series requires the black mask?


Respectfully, if the aircraft required it, it would be on all the A320n series aircraft...and it isn't. Therefore...


True! I have seen, however, Iberia's A320neos have the black mask.
 
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DL_Mech
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Re: Airbus A320neo Black Cockpit Window Mask

Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:01 am

zeke wrote:
Air Canada comes to mind.


You could say that there was some black paint under the windscreen:

This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
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zeke
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Re: Airbus A320neo Black Cockpit Window Mask

Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:08 am

Captainjc9 wrote:
Simple Flying asked Airbus about the reason for the A350 having the black mask, here was a part of their response: “The emblematic “Ray-Ban” like black windshield eases the window’s maintenance and contributes to harmonising the thermal condition of this temperature-sensitive window area.”


It isnt required

ImageF-WWYB A350 Airbus Industries by Guillaume Carré, on Flickr
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
DarQuiet
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Re: Airbus A320neo Black Cockpit Window Mask

Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:06 am

Airbus calls it "zoro" mask.

It's offerable for new aircraft configuration, which means it is "optional" and may come chargeable (with cost) depending on negotiations. It is "mostly" standard for A350 and A330N. Mostly being quoted if specifically unwanted by the aircraft buyer (but who would do that and why?)

Air Asia's first A321N with funky 321 takeoff livery has it so again, it's optional.
https://aibfamily.flights/A320/9139


Captainjc9 wrote:
Hi All,

I know the Airbus A350 has a black 'mask' for the cockpit windows, will the Airbus A320neo and the newer A321neo/A321XLR have the Airbus black mask?

Thanks!
Captainjc9
 
Captainjc9
Topic Author
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:22 am

Re: Airbus A320neo Black Cockpit Window Mask

Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:49 am

DarQuiet wrote:
Airbus calls it "zoro" mask.

It's offerable for new aircraft configuration, which means it is "optional" and may come chargeable (with cost) depending on negotiations. It is "mostly" standard for A350 and A330N. Mostly being quoted if specifically unwanted by the aircraft buyer (but who would do that and why?)

Air Asia's first A321N with funky 321 takeoff livery has it so again, it's optional.
https://aibfamily.flights/A320/9139


Captainjc9 wrote:
Hi All,

I know the Airbus A350 has a black 'mask' for the cockpit windows, will the Airbus A320neo and the newer A321neo/A321XLR have the Airbus black mask?

Thanks!
Captainjc9



Thanks so much for your reply! Great information :D
much appreciated!
 
Max Q
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Re: Airbus A320neo Black Cockpit Window Mask

Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:49 pm

The L1011 prototype had a similar black frame around the cockpit windows
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
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crimsonchin
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Re: Airbus A320neo Black Cockpit Window Mask

Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:12 am

zeke wrote:
Captainjc9 wrote:
Simple Flying asked Airbus about the reason for the A350 having the black mask, here was a part of their response: “The emblematic “Ray-Ban” like black windshield eases the window’s maintenance and contributes to harmonising the thermal condition of this temperature-sensitive window area.”


It isnt required

ImageF-WWYB A350 Airbus Industries by Guillaume Carré, on Flickr


The reason Airbus gave sounds like something that's relevant when the plane is in service i.e. maintenance. I don't think showing a pic of a plane not yet in service disproves that, considering it could have been added before delivery.

Is there actually an A350 in service that does not have the 'mask'?
 
Captainjc9
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Re: Airbus A320neo Black Cockpit Window Mask

Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:40 am

crimsonchin wrote:
zeke wrote:
Captainjc9 wrote:
Simple Flying asked Airbus about the reason for the A350 having the black mask, here was a part of their response: “The emblematic “Ray-Ban” like black windshield eases the window’s maintenance and contributes to harmonising the thermal condition of this temperature-sensitive window area.”


It isnt required

ImageF-WWYB A350 Airbus Industries by Guillaume Carré, on Flickr


The reason Airbus gave sounds like something that's relevant when the plane is in service i.e. maintenance. I don't think showing a pic of a plane not yet in service disproves that, considering it could have been added before delivery.

Is there actually an A350 in service that does not have the 'mask'?


Couldn't agree more! That picture provided above shows a none painted, fresh from the assembly line aircraft. The black mask is added to every livery when in the paint factory.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Airbus A320neo Black Cockpit Window Mask

Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:03 am

zeke wrote:
Captainjc9 wrote:
Simple Flying asked Airbus about the reason for the A350 having the black mask, here was a part of their response: “The emblematic “Ray-Ban” like black windshield eases the window’s maintenance and contributes to harmonising the thermal condition of this temperature-sensitive window area.”


It isnt required

ImageF-WWYB A350 Airbus Industries by Guillaume Carré, on Flickr


That is literally the only A350 that has ever not had it, plus the aircraft appears to be in some odd primer. If it isn't required then why hasn't any airline not had an A350 delivered without it? I'm pretty Airbus doesn't offer an option to not have it.
 
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Polot
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Re: Airbus A320neo Black Cockpit Window Mask

Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:43 am

The black mask is standard on the A350neo/A330neo (although Airbus will skip it if painting plane all white to send to storage with no owner) and optional on the A320neo family. It is optional on the A320neo so airlines can have a harmonized look on that fleet if desired, since many A320neos, and of course most A320ceos, were delivered before Airbus made the decision to make the mask part of their branding and extend it to their other aircraft.

Like with almost anything regarding paint if you absolutely do not want it on your A350/A330neo I’m sure Airbus would oblige for a fee. No customer has actually done that because most don’t care.

Any talk from Airbus about how it’s necessary for maintenance reasons or whatever is just marketing BS. They just wanted to mimic the look of the original A350 cockpit window design that was in place before switching over to the current design derived from the A380.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Airbus A320neo Black Cockpit Window Mask

Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:14 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
That is literally the only A350 that has ever not had it, plus the aircraft appears to be in some odd primer.


I think you'll find no A350 has the mask before it's painted.
Image
Source: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-P2t9QGZ-ESc/ ... ainted.jpg
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ikolkyo
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Re: Airbus A320neo Black Cockpit Window Mask

Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:37 pm

scbriml wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
That is literally the only A350 that has ever not had it, plus the aircraft appears to be in some odd primer.


I think you'll find no A350 has the mask before it's painted.
Image
Source: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-P2t9QGZ-ESc/ ... ainted.jpg


Are you going to ignore the rest of my post? Everyone knows the mask is clearly painted on. What I meant by my post is that that A350 he pictured seems be one of the few that flew multiple times early on in A350 development with no mask, I believe the aircraft pictured is MSN 5
 
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zeke
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Re: Airbus A320neo Black Cockpit Window Mask

Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:18 am

Captainjc9 wrote:
Couldn't agree more! That picture provided above shows a none painted, fresh from the assembly line aircraft. The black mask is added to every livery when in the paint factory.


That is incorrect, that aircraft had already been painted in primer. The cockpit area on the assembly line is a green color as it is aluminum, not composite.

Polot wrote:
The black mask is standard on the A350neo/A330neo (although Airbus will skip it if painting plane all white to send to storage with no owner) and optional on the A320neo family. It is optional on the A320neo so airlines can have a harmonized look on that fleet if desired, since many A320neos, and of course most A320ceos, were delivered before Airbus made the decision to make the mask part of their branding and extend it to their other aircraft.

Like with almost anything regarding paint if you absolutely do not want it on your A350/A330neo I’m sure Airbus would oblige for a fee. No customer has actually done that because most don’t care.

Any talk from Airbus about how it’s necessary for maintenance reasons or whatever is just marketing BS. They just wanted to mimic the look of the original A350 cockpit window design that was in place before switching over to the current design derived from the A380.


The black mask is normally the thrust layer of paint applied, normally it’s primer, then white, then applied with masking at the same time as airline specific decals/livery.

The maintenance savings come from the lower cost to work on the window area when removing the windows etc, they are removed from the outside on the A350. If they were an airline specific livery they would need to be custom painted each time, with the black it’s easy. Hardware used to secure the window in place would nit be reused once removed, new fasteners would be used.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
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Polot
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Re: Airbus A320neo Black Cockpit Window Mask

Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:37 am

zeke wrote:
The maintenance savings come from the lower cost to work on the window area when removing the windows etc, they are removed from the outside on the A350. If they were an airline specific livery they would need to be custom painted each time, with the black it’s easy. Hardware used to secure the window in place would nit be reused once removed, new fasteners would be used.

The hardware with the A350 is going to be the same color as it always is- bare sliver metallic or whatever. Hardware is typically not painted because the paint can mess with threads and sizes/fittings making it difficult to properly use them. You just paint over the exposed part of the hardware afterwards with paint. Airlines will now just be painting black paint over them instead of whatever color would normally use for that area (which for like 90% of airlines is some shade of white)

Airbus has been building cockpits 50+ years without standardizing the paint around the windows- the A350 is their first without sliding cockpit windows, not the first where you must removed cockpit windows from the outside. Airbus just went with the mask because they thought it looks cool and mimics the look of the old window layout during the design phase.
 
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novarupta
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Re: Airbus A320neo Black Cockpit Window Mask

Sun Sep 06, 2020 2:24 am

DL_Mech wrote:
zeke wrote:
Air Canada comes to mind.


You could say that there was some black paint under the windscreen:




I’m the later liveries it just touched the base of the windscreen, but in the earlier DC-9 liveries (and DC8?) it covered the entire silver window frame itself
 
skipness1E
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Re: Airbus A320neo Black Cockpit Window Mask

Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:26 am

Lufthansa's latest A320Neo, D-AINZ, is the first to be so painted. So in-fleet mismatch!

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