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Trimeresurus
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Airliners that don't have engines under wing and don't possess immediate hazard to surroundings

Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:48 pm

Do they ever run and keep running the engines at the gate? Like MD-80s, 727s, CRJs. Do ramp agents walk around these planes when the engines are running, or even when they're moving(approaching a gate)?
 
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T18
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Re: Airliners that don't have engines under wing and don't possess immediate hazard to surroundings

Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:48 pm

It is preferred to run the APU opposed to engines when possible just for fuel burn if not jet blast.
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GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Airliners that don't have engines under wing and don't possess immediate hazard to surroundings

Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:49 pm

No, unless the APU is inop Nd there’s no ground power unit.
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: Airliners that don't have engines under wing and don't possess immediate hazard to surroundings

Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:05 am

Trimeresurus wrote:
Do they ever run and keep running the engines at the gate? Like MD-80s, 727s, CRJs. Do ramp agents walk around these planes when the engines are running, or even when they're moving(approaching a gate)?


The rampers keep an eye on the beacon. If the beacon is on, it means that it is dangerous to approach the aircraft. So the rampers stay away until it is off on arrival. We turn it off once the engines are off and doors disarmed. The sequence is engines off, then turn off the seat belt sign, which indicates to the cabin crew that they should disarm the doors. Once we see the doors are disarmed, we turn off the beacon.

In practice, many still insert chocks on the nose gear and connect ground power plus their headset as soon as you stop. But that's well away from the engines.

Side note: The other hazards apart from engines are hydraulics and the doors being armed. Which is why if we need to pressurize hydraulics before engine start, for example to top up the brake accumulators, we must let the ground engineer know.
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fr8mech
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Re: Airliners that don't have engines under wing and don't possess immediate hazard to surroundings

Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:12 am

I guess it can be done on an exception basis but procedures and prudence dictate against it.

You'd also need to have a qualified person on the flight deck to monitor the engine.

Fueling the aircraft gets a little more...interesting, from a procedures standpoint.

Even though the inlets are up higher, the danger zone does extend to the ground, so you'd still want to stay away from the front-end of the engines.

And, it's expensive. APU time is much cheaper than engine time.
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Starlionblue
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Re: Airliners that don't have engines under wing and don't possess immediate hazard to surroundings

Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:32 am

fr8mech wrote:
I guess it can be done on an exception basis but procedures and prudence dictate against it.

You'd also need to have a qualified person on the flight deck to monitor the engine.

Fueling the aircraft gets a little more...interesting, from a procedures standpoint.

Even though the inlets are up higher, the danger zone does extend to the ground, so you'd still want to stay away from the front-end of the engines.

And, it's expensive. APU time is much cheaper than engine time.


An important detail is that the APU has automatic shut-off and fire suppression, while the engines don't. Hence the need for a person on the flight deck.
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mxaxai
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Re: Airliners that don't have engines under wing and don't possess immediate hazard to surroundings

Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:57 am

The only aircraft I know that can let the engine run at the gate is the ATR in "hotel mode", i. e. the prop is stopped but the turbine keeps running to provide electricity, A/C and hydraulics (like an APU). It's very loud, though, not particularly pleasant during boarding.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Airliners that don't have engines under wing and don't possess immediate hazard to surroundings

Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:04 pm

mxaxai wrote:
The only aircraft I know that can let the engine run at the gate is the ATR in "hotel mode", i. e. the prop is stopped but the turbine keeps running to provide electricity, A/C and hydraulics (like an APU). It's very loud, though, not particularly pleasant during boarding.


I was on an Encore DH4 a couple of years ago that ran number 2 at the gate at BNA (Encore’s southernmost station) to get the air conditioning running. I was sitting on the starboard bulkhead and it was quite loud. I have no idea what operational conditions dictated this; we were on a contact gate so I would have expected ground air to be an option but perhaps Encore’s ops specs don’t provide for it since they are basically a cold climate airline.
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mxaxai
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Re: Airliners that don't have engines under wing and don't possess immediate hazard to surroundings

Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:22 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
mxaxai wrote:
The only aircraft I know that can let the engine run at the gate is the ATR in "hotel mode", i. e. the prop is stopped but the turbine keeps running to provide electricity, A/C and hydraulics (like an APU). It's very loud, though, not particularly pleasant during boarding.


I was on an Encore DH4 a couple of years ago that ran number 2 at the gate at BNA (Encore’s southernmost station) to get the air conditioning running. I was sitting on the starboard bulkhead and it was quite loud. I have no idea what operational conditions dictated this; we were on a contact gate so I would have expected ground air to be an option but perhaps Encore’s ops specs don’t provide for it since they are basically a cold climate airline.

The DH4 should have an APU. Perhaps it was broken on that day and they wanted to maintain a reasonable temperature inside? I've flown on an A320 without APU before; first flight of the day + bus boarding resulted in a very cold boarding experience (~5-10 °C). It did get warmer quickly once the engines got running but only after boarding was completed. In a hot climate like BNA you might not be able to wait for so long.
 
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JBo
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Re: Airliners that don't have engines under wing and don't possess immediate hazard to surroundings

Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:25 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
mxaxai wrote:
The only aircraft I know that can let the engine run at the gate is the ATR in "hotel mode", i. e. the prop is stopped but the turbine keeps running to provide electricity, A/C and hydraulics (like an APU). It's very loud, though, not particularly pleasant during boarding.


I was on an Encore DH4 a couple of years ago that ran number 2 at the gate at BNA (Encore’s southernmost station) to get the air conditioning running. I was sitting on the starboard bulkhead and it was quite loud. I have no idea what operational conditions dictated this; we were on a contact gate so I would have expected ground air to be an option but perhaps Encore’s ops specs don’t provide for it since they are basically a cold climate airline.


Once upon a long time ago, Great Lakes would feather the #2 engine on the 1900 and keep it going during outstation turnarounds when they weren't taking on fuel.

This also happened a couple of times when I was at Skyway, when the GPU would be inop on an aircraft.
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Cubsrule
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Re: Airliners that don't have engines under wing and don't possess immediate hazard to surroundings

Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:58 pm

JBo wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
mxaxai wrote:
The only aircraft I know that can let the engine run at the gate is the ATR in "hotel mode", i. e. the prop is stopped but the turbine keeps running to provide electricity, A/C and hydraulics (like an APU). It's very loud, though, not particularly pleasant during boarding.


I was on an Encore DH4 a couple of years ago that ran number 2 at the gate at BNA (Encore’s southernmost station) to get the air conditioning running. I was sitting on the starboard bulkhead and it was quite loud. I have no idea what operational conditions dictated this; we were on a contact gate so I would have expected ground air to be an option but perhaps Encore’s ops specs don’t provide for it since they are basically a cold climate airline.


Once upon a long time ago, Great Lakes would feather the #2 engine on the 1900 and keep it going during outstation turnarounds when they weren't taking on fuel.

This also happened a couple of times when I was at Skyway, when the GPU would be inop on an aircraft.


I won’t claim to have an exhaustive list of who did and didn’t do it but back in the heyday of turboprop milk runs I think this was not all that uncommon.
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