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wxman11
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Electronics devices passing 10,000ft

Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:35 pm

Quick question. We all know that after passing 10,000 feet, passenger are permitted to use their electronic devices. Usually that rules comes into play in mean sea level, at least that what I would think. But if you have a airport field elevation at 5,000 feet like in Denver for example, is the 10,000 feet rule AGL or MSL??? Meaning, if you fly out of DEN, instead of the 10,000ft MSL when the message allows you to use your device would actually be 15,000ft AGL?
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: Electronics devices passing 10,000ft

Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:15 am

I've never heard of a 10000 feet rule. It would depend on jurisdiction and airline. Why 10000 feet?

In your example, though, I'm pretty sure it would be 10000 MSL.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Electronics devices passing 10,000ft

Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:37 am

Definitely MSL in and out of DEN, SLC, and other nearby airports. It comes noticeably closer to the ground than in the rest of the US.
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SoCalPilot
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Re: Electronics devices passing 10,000ft

Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:01 am

The FAA 10,000' electronics rule went away several years ago when they realized it made no sense. When I flew for a 121 carrier we dinged at 10,000 to let the FA's know we were no longer in a sterile cockpit environment. Otherwise you are certainly allowed to use electronic devices below 10,000', at least according to the FAA. Laptops and other larger items have to be stowed for takeoff and landing, but thats the only exception that I'm aware of.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Electronics devices passing 10,000ft

Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:27 am

SoCalPilot wrote:
The FAA 10,000' electronics rule went away several years ago when they realized it made no sense. When I flew for a 121 carrier we dinged at 10,000 to let the FA's know we were no longer in a sterile cockpit environment. Otherwise you are certainly allowed to use electronic devices below 10,000', at least according to the FAA. Laptops and other larger items have to be stowed for takeoff and landing, but thats the only exception that I'm aware of.


reminds me of flying DTW-LAN "unfortunately you can not use your electronic devices, as we won´t climb above 10k feet" ..... low and slow on a CRJ was the only CRJ trip that was ever enjoyable :D

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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WesternDC6B
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Re: Electronics devices passing 10,000ft

Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:19 am

Back in 1978 i was on an Eastern L-1011. I had a then-current model calculator with an LED display. If you got it anywhere near a radio, the interference was incredible! So, I asked the stewardess* if my calculator would cause an issue. The next thing I knew, the FO was chatting with me about planes, RF interference, the course I was taking, the math I was doing. And, yes, I could use my calc.

*Stewardess. A name for female flight attendants. It 1978, the term had not yet been declared off limits by the arbiters of such things. For all I know, that FO I talked with may still have been a co-pilot!
“Pedantic” defined: spelling “pedantic” “pædantic”.
 
Woodreau
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Re: Electronics devices passing 10,000ft

Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:39 pm

Everything that the flight attendants do is based on triggers.

Climbing above 10000ft, there is a trigger. They can get up, make announcements, etc.

In the preflight brief, if there is turbulence expected, I’ll ask them to stay in their seats until I call them. 10000ft comes, the trigger. But they stay in their seats. If I get turbulence that I’m not expecting and I can see that it will persist, 10000ft comes and goes, no trigger. I’ll delay the 10000ft trigger until higher. Or until I’m able to call them and let them know what is going on.

Coming back down thru 10000ft, there is another trigger that tells them to prepare the cabin for landing. So that’s when the laptops stowed announcements get made, etc....

Sometimes we get busy and we forget the 10000ft trigger - flaps come out, gear comes down, then you hear the flight attendants in the back go into panic mode, lots of thumps, slams, PA announcements, “get crap stowed for landing” gets compressed into a very short period of time and the nasty look when you open the cockpit door....

Going into Denver, we’ll do the 10000ft trigger a little earlier, 18000ft the seat belt sign comes on, then sometime between 18000 and 10000 we’ll do the 10000ft trigger and the flight attendants stows the cabin for landing and take their seats.... - just in case we need to do the avoid SWA evasive maneuvering for the inevitable SWA TCAS RA at 16000 joining the 16L/R final, etc...
Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: Electronics devices passing 10,000ft

Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:39 am

Woodreau wrote:
Sometimes we get busy and we forget the 10000ft trigger - flaps come out, gear comes down, then you hear the flight attendants in the back go into panic mode, lots of thumps, slams, PA announcements, “get crap stowed for landing” gets compressed into a very short period of time and the nasty look when you open the cockpit door....



Nothing is quite as dangerous to the pilots' well-being as giving the cabin crew an inaccurate arrival time. :D

On a long haul especially, their whole second service is based on the arrival time. They work backwards from that to figure out when to start heating the meals, when to turn the lights on, and so on. Things are set in motion hours before arrival.

For the approach, as long as we've told them "thirty minutes to landing", we tend to be ok, but obviously unwise to miss the descent bing-bongs and announcements.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
N1120A
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Re: Electronics devices passing 10,000ft

Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:41 am

wxman11 wrote:
Quick question. We all know that after passing 10,000 feet, passenger are permitted to use their electronic devices. Usually that rules comes into play in mean sea level, at least that what I would think. But if you have a airport field elevation at 5,000 feet like in Denver for example, is the 10,000 feet rule AGL or MSL??? Meaning, if you fly out of DEN, instead of the 10,000ft MSL when the message allows you to use your device would actually be 15,000ft AGL?


The 10,000' MSL electronics rule went away with the FAA, and many other national CAAs, several years ago. Most replaced with a rule that one could only use devices weighing at or below a certain weight when under 10,000' MSL, primarily due to the issues with flying objects.
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