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Sokes
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Re: Why do aircrews stay in cities and not near the airport?

Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:20 am

FlyHappy wrote:
Sokes wrote:

Are there hotels which maintain a few very small rooms to be used only in peak season?


what an incredible waste of (potentially) revenue producing space for most of the year. Don't get into the hotel business.

I thought over it. You are right.
Don't get into diplomacy.


Sokes wrote:
Would airlines agree to good rooms 300 days/ year, tiny rooms for 65 days/ year?


You don't travel much for work, do you?

I actually do. I'm idle since February, but in normal years maybe 50-70 days/ year.
But I follow an Epicurean philosophy. One has to limit one's needs for happiness. Moreover I believe joy comes through activity. So I'm not very consumption oriented.
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
Woodreau
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Re: Why do aircrews stay in cities and not near the airport?

Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:07 pm

aftx91 wrote:
As a mere USAF peasant, perhaps somebody could fill me in on the reason for this.
I regularly see civilian crews, both flight and cabin crew, being shipped from major airports to fancy downtown hotels, instead of staying at a reasonable airport hotel. For the price of a 3* downtown hotel, you could get the same rate at 5* airport hotel minus the location and views.

For example, New York would be a prime example here, crews flying into JFK (Even EWR!?) are shipped into Manhattan, notorious for its extortionate hotel prices, even low cost carriers like Norwegian(and Primera back in the day) has/had its crew shipped into Manhattan from JFK and EWR respectively, which for a low cost carrier must be quite the kick between the legs.
For a flight departing EWR at 6pm, the crew must have to be picked up at their hotel in Manhattan no later than 4 to beat the traffic, right?
Maybe I’m going crazy here, but what’s the logic behind it.

I understand for legacy carriers (BA Worldwide, or Air France for example), these will be tied in to contracts from yesteryear, but what’s the excuse for the others?
A JFK airport hotel for one night will surely save potentially up to hundreds of thousands of dollars compared to a hotel on the sidewalk of Times Square?



It’s not about saving money. At a lot of overnights we don’t even take the hotel provided transportation, instead there is a transportation provider that meets us at a specific location and transports us to the hotel. We just get off the plane, they are waiting for us and we are at the hotel. No waiting for the hotel van.

At hotels where we are to use hotel provided transportation, if we have to wait more than 15 minutes, we are supposed to hire a taxi and expense it to the airline.

None of this hurry up and wait like in the Air Force.


I assume most airlines are the same in that They don’t just have one long stay and one short stay hotel. instead there is a primary long stay hotel, primary short stay hotel and multiple alternate hotels that are agreed upon between the airline and the union that are acceptable to house crews for the layover. The primary one is used. But if there is a problem that prevents the airline from using the primary, like no hot water or construction, or political protest disruptions, severe weather (hurricanes) , then the alternate hotels have already been agreed upon in advance and the crews are switched to the alternate hotels.

I do remember being stranded at the long stay hotel during a hurricane. We were stuck with Air France and Singapore crews at the hotel for several days extra. eventually the airline contracted a helicopter to extract us (4 crews) from the long stay hotel to bring us to the airport to get us out. We said good bye to the Air France and Singapore crews that we’d gotten to know over those days and got on the helicopter and left...
Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
 
CosmicCruiser
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Re: Why do aircrews stay in cities and not near the airport?

Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:26 pm

We had certain hotels that on occasion would play dumb "we didn't know you were coming today" because they did sell our rooms to a wedding party though we had contracted rooms. One in particular was in Campinas, Brazil where we stayed at a "resort" hotel outside of town. They conveniently took us to a small hotel in town and we got to listen to gunshots all night. We did file a report to the hotel/transportation dept. at work. Usually the biggest problem we saw were rooms not being ready when we arrived and we'd have to wait.
 
N353SK
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Re: Why do aircrews stay in cities and not near the airport?

Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:02 pm

Bostrom wrote:
It has been mentioned that for short layovers, crew usually stay close to the airport. But there are exceptions. I once arranged a small conference at an inner city hotel, about 30 min from ARN and the hotel seemed to have a deal with Lufthansa as there was a lot of Lufthansa crew arriving and departing during the conference and the hotel even had a "Lufthansa crew lounge".


"short layover" refers to the amount of time the crew is off duty, not the length of the flight it took to get there. It's quite common for short-haul pilots to still have a long layover.
 
Alias1024
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Re: Why do aircrews stay in cities and not near the airport?

Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:54 pm

As has been said by others in this thread, pilots and flight attendants will quickly burn out if we're just staring at the walls of our hotel. The cutoff between short and long layover at my airline is 15 hours and it makes a huge difference in mental health to not always be stuck in a soul destroying clump of hotels and fast food by the airport.

For example last month I had two long layovers in New York City. Instead of being stuck in the sad hotel wasteland near JFK I was in Manhattan only about six blocks from Central Park. I was able to get out for a good run in arguably the best urban park in the world and had plenty of food options available to find a healthy meal before going back to the airport. Very nice! (said in my best Borat voice)

spinkid wrote:
I got the opportunity to spend the night near DTW a couple years ago during nice weather. I could see a McDonald's and a Wendy's from out front and as I walked along that's all I saw. I decided not to venture past the boarded up Denny's.

If you find yourself there again stay at one of the hotels off Merriman Road to the north of DTW. There are a few more food choices, including Beirut Restaurant, which airline crews swear by if you like middle eastern food. Big portions, very tasty, and the family that runs the restaurant is super nice.

deltairlines wrote:
There's plenty in the US that have airline hotels in the city center and within a 15 minute drive to the airport. BOS is right across the Harbor; the Seaport is 5 minutes away from the airport; Back Bay is 10-15 minutes. San Diego is 10 minutes from Lindbergh Field. MIA is about 15 minutes from Downtown Miami (though it's a bit more to the more glamourous spots on the beach). DCA is 5 minutes to Arlington and 15 minutes to Central DC. PHX is 10-15 minutes from Downtown Phoenix (although there's not a whole lot there; on the flip side, Downtown Tempe which is pretty active is 10 minutes away). Those are just a few that I can think of.


BOS and SAN are indeed two where my airline has no distinction between short and long layover. DCA we use a hotel in Crystal City for the short layover and the long layover is in Georgetown. PHX is also split with short layovers near the airport. Long layover right now is in Scottsdale though Tempe has been used in the past as well.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Why do aircrews stay in cities and not near the airport?

Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:50 pm

N353SK wrote:
Bostrom wrote:
It has been mentioned that for short layovers, crew usually stay close to the airport. But there are exceptions. I once arranged a small conference at an inner city hotel, about 30 min from ARN and the hotel seemed to have a deal with Lufthansa as there was a lot of Lufthansa crew arriving and departing during the conference and the hotel even had a "Lufthansa crew lounge".


"short layover" refers to the amount of time the crew is off duty, not the length of the flight it took to get there. It's quite common for short-haul pilots to still have a long layover.


Knowing how most european airlines work, short haul crews here rarely get long layovers. The flights are short and operated at high frequencies, so when they do overnight off-base, it is either because they arrived on the last late evening flight out of Frankfurt/Munich, or because they are operating the early morning departure out of the airport back to Frankfurt/Munich. For the former, they will be get maybe 9 or 10 hours at the hotel. For the latter, around 14 hours depending on exact arrival time.

KLM and Air France are more brutal. Arrive on the late flight around 2200, depart again at 0600. OTOH, reduced rest means they get the day off early.
 
Avgeek21
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Re: Why do aircrews stay in cities and not near the airport?

Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:34 pm

I flew for a big EU legacy carrier and we used to split flightdeck and cabin crew. We stayed in a nicer place then they did. Absolutely hated that. Just didn't sit right with me. Anyways, we then started to shift away from city center locations to airport locations to save money and time. Unions kicked up a fuss but conceded and one after the other layover got less desirable.

I have no idea how my current company chooses locations. We stay in fancy hotels downtown in some of the poorest places in the world that need a 1hr armed escort. And in other Western places we stay at the airport. Different hotel companies too. Some really nice others are ok. Mostly 24+hrs layovers.

In the end of the day I detest layovers. I'd rather be home. If I want to see the world I want to see it with my wife and kids.
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: Why do aircrews stay in cities and not near the airport?

Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:22 am

Avgeek21 wrote:
I flew for a big EU legacy carrier and we used to split flightdeck and cabin crew. We stayed in a nicer place then they did. Absolutely hated that. Just didn't sit right with me. Anyways, we then started to shift away from city center locations to airport locations to save money and time. Unions kicked up a fuss but conceded and one after the other layover got less desirable.

I have no idea how my current company chooses locations. We stay in fancy hotels downtown in some of the poorest places in the world that need a 1hr armed escort. And in other Western places we stay at the airport. Different hotel companies too. Some really nice others are ok. Mostly 24+hrs layovers.

In the end of the day I detest layovers. I'd rather be home. If I want to see the world I want to see it with my wife and kids.


Different strokes I guess. I love a good layover. With the pandemic, in the past nine months I've had maybe two layovers, and with quarantine rules I wasn't allowed to leave the room anyway. I kinda miss it. Even vegging out in the room reading a book or bingeing a TV show can be pretty relaxing.

Don't get me wrong. I do enjoy seeing the world with my wife and kids, but I also enjoy doing stuff that they are not always keen on. And I don't mind being by myself from time to time.

I miss going for a long walk somewhere I've never been, going to a museum, going by myself to a movie that my wife isn't interested in, trying out nice local cuisine, doing a walking tour, reading a book in a nice coffee shop. And some layovers are more adventurous than others. I've done wakeboarding, attended air shows, snowboarded, sailplane jaunt, seaplane tour, sail boated, rented a car to drive somewhere interesting, hiked up mountains, hired a bicycle to ride out to the local vineyards. I could go on.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
hoons90
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Re: Why do aircrews stay in cities and not near the airport?

Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:22 am

Several years ago, some AA flight attendants told me that for their ICN flights, they laid over at a hotel in Songdo but some of them decided to travel to central Seoul which is two hours each way on the subway. That's quite the dedication on a short 24 hour layover!
I believe Lufthansa, Emirates and Etihad crews lay over in central Seoul, not sure about other airlines.
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Starlionblue
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Re: Why do aircrews stay in cities and not near the airport?

Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:12 am

hoons90 wrote:
Several years ago, some AA flight attendants told me that for their ICN flights, they laid over at a hotel in Songdo but some of them decided to travel to central Seoul which is two hours each way on the subway. That's quite the dedication on a short 24 hour layover!
I believe Lufthansa, Emirates and Etihad crews lay over in central Seoul, not sure about other airlines.


2 hours each way doesn't sound too bad, especially if you've never seen a city before. One thing different about a layover compared to a business or leisure trip is that you typically don't have anything you must or should be doing. It's very liberating to know you have no obligation to go to a meeting, go to the nice pool you paid for, see family or friends and so on. If you want to sleep all day because you're on a completely different time zone, that's fine too.

I went to London once on a 24 hour Manchester layover since my mum was in town. Popped on the train after arriving in the morning and had a lovely snooze on the 2½ hour ride. Got to London by noon, nicely refreshed. Spent the day with mum and had dinner, then took the train back and was in my hotel room by eleven for an 0800 wake up call.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
VSMUT
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Re: Why do aircrews stay in cities and not near the airport?

Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:44 am

Starlionblue wrote:
hoons90 wrote:
Several years ago, some AA flight attendants told me that for their ICN flights, they laid over at a hotel in Songdo but some of them decided to travel to central Seoul which is two hours each way on the subway. That's quite the dedication on a short 24 hour layover!
I believe Lufthansa, Emirates and Etihad crews lay over in central Seoul, not sure about other airlines.


2 hours each way doesn't sound too bad, especially if you've never seen a city before. One thing different about a layover compared to a business or leisure trip is that you typically don't have anything you must or should be doing. It's very liberating to know you have no obligation to go to a meeting, go to the nice pool you paid for, see family or friends and so on. If you want to sleep all day because you're on a completely different time zone, that's fine too.

I went to London once on a 24 hour Manchester layover since my mum was in town. Popped on the train after arriving in the morning and had a lovely snooze on the 2½ hour ride. Got to London by noon, nicely refreshed. Spent the day with mum and had dinner, then took the train back and was in my hotel room by eleven for an 0800 wake up call.


We lost the privileges to leave the city or local region after someone decided to catch a flight to the UK on a weekend layover. Ryanair cancelled his return flight at the last moment, and this was one of those smaller destinations that only saw 2 commercial flights a week from the UK. Incredibly stupid, because this company went to great lengths to find us nice hotels close to the city centre and tourist sights, and even negotiated public transport passes for us at some destinations.
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: Why do aircrews stay in cities and not near the airport?

Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:57 pm

VSMUT wrote:
Starlionblue wrote:
hoons90 wrote:
Several years ago, some AA flight attendants told me that for their ICN flights, they laid over at a hotel in Songdo but some of them decided to travel to central Seoul which is two hours each way on the subway. That's quite the dedication on a short 24 hour layover!
I believe Lufthansa, Emirates and Etihad crews lay over in central Seoul, not sure about other airlines.


2 hours each way doesn't sound too bad, especially if you've never seen a city before. One thing different about a layover compared to a business or leisure trip is that you typically don't have anything you must or should be doing. It's very liberating to know you have no obligation to go to a meeting, go to the nice pool you paid for, see family or friends and so on. If you want to sleep all day because you're on a completely different time zone, that's fine too.

I went to London once on a 24 hour Manchester layover since my mum was in town. Popped on the train after arriving in the morning and had a lovely snooze on the 2½ hour ride. Got to London by noon, nicely refreshed. Spent the day with mum and had dinner, then took the train back and was in my hotel room by eleven for an 0800 wake up call.


We lost the privileges to leave the city or local region after someone decided to catch a flight to the UK on a weekend layover. Ryanair cancelled his return flight at the last moment, and this was one of those smaller destinations that only saw 2 commercial flights a week from the UK. Incredibly stupid, because this company went to great lengths to find us nice hotels close to the city centre and tourist sights, and even negotiated public transport passes for us at some destinations.


Oh dear.

You have to be careful. Even on a 48 hour Europe layover when I took a flight to see my mum, I'd always get back to the hotel with a massive margin and double redundant backup plans. I'd book a full fare, fully refundable ticket for a later flight just in case. That way I'd be covered if the flight was cancelled or anything. And when I didn't use the ticket I could just get the refund.

You don't want to be "that guy".
Last edited by Starlionblue on Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Woodreau
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Re: Why do aircrews stay in cities and not near the airport?

Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:06 pm

Part of the problem is relying solely on taking a flight to get back into position. You learn early in the airline career never to trust being able to get anywhere by airplane when you need to be somewhere by a specific time.

It only takes once missing a required checkin due to not being in position if you’re on probation to end a promising career at that airline.

There are commuter provisions in contracts to get you a “get out of jail free” pass if you can’t get somewhere to start your trip. But don’t count on using that provision on a regular basis.

But yeah 24 hrs in Baltimore, I’d jump on a train to get down to DC or go up to New York City.
Or 24 hrs in Orlando, well there’s lots of theme parks right next to the hotel we stay in, just jump on the hotel provided bus and you’re in Disney Springs or anyone of the 4 theme parks, Sea World and Universal Studios is a short Uber ride (at least before the worldwide pandemic)
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eta unknown
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Re: Why do aircrews stay in cities and not near the airport?

Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:45 pm

I've been on both sides of the negotiating table (I prefer being on the buyer side). Sometimes business needs change: for example, when EK added a 3rd (now discontinued) flight to BNE, the local Hilton kicked them out because EK was occupying too many rooms at too low a rate. I once had to evict (with 24 hours notice) a US cargo crew because of repeated behavioural issues and tore up their contract. I also had to replace toilet paper/tissues with the equivalent of fluffy sandpaper to stop constant theft by another crew. Finally, on the other side I saw the SYD Marriott completely screw up their hands-down win with short term greed wanting over-rack rate for a 2 week period- that left such a sour taste our second choice hotel (internally graded 50 points lower) got the business. FYI the contracted room rate can be as little as $5 to consider a change.
 
Sokes
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Re: Why do aircrews stay in cities and not near the airport?

Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:28 pm

CosmicCruiser wrote:
We had certain hotels that on occasion would play dumb "we didn't know you were coming today" because they did sell our rooms to a wedding party though we had contracted rooms. One in particular was in Campinas, Brazil where we stayed at a "resort" hotel outside of town. They conveniently took us to a small hotel in town and we got to listen to gunshots all night. We did file a report to the hotel/transportation dept. at work. Usually the biggest problem we saw were rooms not being ready when we arrived and we'd have to wait.

As Taoism says: "Embrace the change. "
I'm half serious.
In India a European once told me: "In India life never gets boring. "
That includes chaos. And while this chaos is nerving, it somehow is interesting at the same time.
So there are two types of India traveller, those who hate it and never come again and those who love it and come again and again.

About rooms not being cleaned:
I once wanted a non AC room in a lodge I had already repeatedly stayed. It was one of the better run hotels I knew. The hotel employee told me these rooms are not nice. "You better go for AC rooms!" I insisted on non AC. I was shown a room. There was a hair on the bed.
When I mentioned it he said: "I told you to take an AC room. "
It was festival time. The staff responsible to clean the rooms had gone home for some days.

I speak of a small town with room rents of 13-20$. But my experience is that double priced rooms are just the same. Hotels in the parts of India I know belong to the helpers of politicians. Most of them know to talk nice, not how to run a hotel.
However developed places usually have better mentality, so close to international airports I assume things are better.

In Goa everybody can start a hotel.
Indians like to make holidays in Goa. Well managed hotels are easily available.
So your experience may be more related to politics than "lacy locals".

Did the airline change the hotel after you complained?
Do airlines change hotels when governments change?
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
VSMUT
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Re: Why do aircrews stay in cities and not near the airport?

Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:39 pm

Sokes wrote:
So there are two types of India traveller, those who hate it and never come again and those who love it and come again and again.


You forgot the 3rd type - the traveller who hates India and keeps getting brought back.

India has its exciting moments, but it is also where I had by far the best overnight accommodations of my career.


Sokes wrote:
Did the airline change the hotel after you complained?


Yes, I had a few stays where I got the hotel changed. Food poisoning at the hotels restaurant was one (in India of all places). Useless internet was another. The airline expects us to send and receive all documents on our iPads, can't do that if there is no internet.
 
VMCA787
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Re: Why do aircrews stay in cities and not near the airport?

Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:03 pm

VSMUT wrote:

India has its exciting moments, but it is also where I had by far the best overnight accommodations of my career.




Ironically, after doing hotel work for three different airlines, the hotels in India are among the most expensive hotels in the world! We stayed in the Taj group of hotels in most of the Indian cities we flew into and IIRC, the company was paying north of $150/night. That was 12 years ago. Generally, airlines tend to go for newer hotels that have not built up a reputation or following. Since it is a new property, the rates are, generally, very good and there are lots of other things thrown in.

One SE Asian carrier I worked for was penny-wise but pound foolish. This involved a Taj hotel that came up for renewal. The company wanted to save money and started to look at new hotels. They selected three hotels to inspect and I looked at two of them. For various reasons, neither hotel was acceptable and told the company they were unacceptable. However, to the union's surprise, the company picked a hotel we rejected. We met with the company to see what the reason was and basically, the station manager negotiated a rock bottom rate. As to be expected, the hotel was good for about a week. Then you had a couple of passenger flights who had to wait for rooms and delayed their departure due to crew rest, a freighter crew was never picked up, crews given rooms which were completely flooded. Needless to say, they delayed their departures. The company finally had enough and went back to the Taj and told them they would take the rooms. The hotel told them, while they appreciated the airline's business, that rate was no longer offered. In the end, the company paid $20 more/night!
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atcdan
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Re: Why do aircrews stay in cities and not near the airport?

Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:40 pm

With all these questions of “60 rooms”, etc, please keep in mind what you’re really talking about.

A 5 star hotel in my city center (one of dozens amongst dozens) has 889 rooms, a similar 4 star in Dallas has 1,606.

So the idea that a hotel with only 60 rooms is blocking them for airlines is a moot point. Most limited service airport hotels have upwards of 160 rooms. Once the room is “sold” it’s gone. Like if you went to a car dealership and asked about a car with a “sold” sign on it, that another customer is already contracted to buy. Do you expect the dealer to tell that client “no” because you’re willing to pay more?

I worked in hospitality sales at a Hilton for a year or so, it’s a very simple process, and these companies are getting only like 10-20 bucks off rack rate, often with a lockout window, I.e. the rooms must be booked 7 days out or they get released to the general public.
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TTailedTiger
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Re: Why do aircrews stay in cities and not near the airport?

Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:21 am

Yeah it doesn't make sense and all it does is cause a pain for passengers. I can't tell you how many times I've been on the first flight out of MEM to have the gate agent tell us the crew is running late from downtown. No reason for it.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Why do aircrews stay in cities and not near the airport?

Fri Nov 13, 2020 4:31 am

At least twice in corporate flying, the pax noted we stayed at a better hotel than they did. The Ritz both times. Jepp could get good deals due to their volume of reservations. Once, in Berlin, they got us rooms for four nights at the Ritz. We were arguing to move to the Marriott across the street to get the points. This was prior to the merger of points systems. I finally realized, it was a silly argument.
 
Electra
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Re: Why do aircrews stay in cities and not near the airport?

Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:46 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Yeah it doesn't make sense and all it does is cause a pain for passengers. I can't tell you how many times I've been on the first flight out of MEM to have the gate agent tell us the crew is running late from downtown. No reason for it.


Rest assured, airlines find these types of delays just as much of a pain (if not more) than you do. All delays are tracked and if a pattern emerges, such as late departures from a specific airport due to traffic from the crew hotel, then these factors will be investigated and changes enacted if deemed necessary. These could include such things as earlier transport requirements, review of layovers or indeed a hotel change.
The fact that crews continue to stay downtown in your example, indicate that the airlines have determined that the benefits of crew staying downtown (including the many valid reasons already mentioned in this thread), as well as the contractual obligations, take precedence.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Why do aircrews stay in cities and not near the airport?

Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:49 pm

atcdan wrote:
With all these questions of “60 rooms”, etc, please keep in mind what you’re really talking about.

A 5 star hotel in my city center (one of dozens amongst dozens) has 889 rooms, a similar 4 star in Dallas has 1,606.

So the idea that a hotel with only 60 rooms is blocking them for airlines is a moot point. Most limited service airport hotels have upwards of 160 rooms. Once the room is “sold” it’s gone. Like if you went to a car dealership and asked about a car with a “sold” sign on it, that another customer is already contracted to buy. Do you expect the dealer to tell that client “no” because you’re willing to pay more?

I worked in hospitality sales at a Hilton for a year or so, it’s a very simple process, and these companies are getting only like 10-20 bucks off rack rate, often with a lockout window, I.e. the rooms must be booked 7 days out or they get released to the general public.


One of my employers actually booked almost an entire hotel on an ACMI assignment that lasted an entire summer. It was a fancy little place, maybe 10 rooms in total. We held 8 or 9 of them. The staff seemed pretty happy about it, the pilots spent well in the bar and restaurant, and they pretty much knew when to expect us in the morning and evening and what we wanted.

But this was in a small city off the beaten track, there were no big chain-hotels.
 
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eta unknown
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Re: Why do aircrews stay in cities and not near the airport?

Sat Nov 14, 2020 8:51 am

atcdan wrote:
With all these questions of “60 rooms”, etc, please keep in mind what you’re really talking about.

A 5 star hotel in my city center (one of dozens amongst dozens) has 889 rooms, a similar 4 star in Dallas has 1,606.

So the idea that a hotel with only 60 rooms is blocking them for airlines is a moot point. Most limited service airport hotels have upwards of 160 rooms. Once the room is “sold” it’s gone. Like if you went to a car dealership and asked about a car with a “sold” sign on it, that another customer is already contracted to buy. Do you expect the dealer to tell that client “no” because you’re willing to pay more?

I worked in hospitality sales at a Hilton for a year or so, it’s a very simple process, and these companies are getting only like 10-20 bucks off rack rate, often with a lockout window, I.e. the rooms must be booked 7 days out or they get released to the general public.

Don;t know where you were based, but when I contracted the crew rooms the discounts were significantly larger than $10-$20. Of course, supply & demand factors are always in play.
 
VMCA787
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Re: Why do aircrews stay in cities and not near the airport?

Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:34 pm

Have to say, that has been my experience too. Generally, the discounts are substantial and there other things thrown in too, such as discounts on meals, laundry free gym, upgrade to executive floor, free or substantially reduced laundry and a host of other things too. The airlines I have worked for tended to use new hotels if they were close to the airport and new hotels in town until the business picked up. That seemed to get the largest discount and worked for all parties.
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CosmicCruiser
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Re: Why do aircrews stay in cities and not near the airport?

Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:10 pm

We had some hotels that would give you the company discount even if you were on a personal/ family trip and it was definitely significant. As well as the freebies that went along with it. Nice deal.
To the poster who asked me about turning in an ops report to the hotel dept for bad experiences at contracted hotels it happened a lot but the company certainly wouldn't change hotels for one bad experience. If it became a trend then they would take action. Also some pilots would be annoyed at something where others wouldn't. Case in point, we stayed in a very very nice hotel in Paris but it was a busy place and we usually had to wait at check in while they cleaned our rooms. Some guys made a big deal out of it and others just went to the bar until the rooms were ready. Eventually we changed hotels but probably at the insistence of the hotel. They shipped us off to another one of their properties which was more of a business hotel but still nice.
 
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T18
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Re: Why do aircrews stay in cities and not near the airport?

Sun Nov 15, 2020 3:59 pm

FlyingElvii wrote:
Stitch wrote:
The airline might have corporate contracts in place where their crews pay significantly less than "Rack Rate".

Absolutely, except in Sell out or IROP situations. Regardless of situation, most US contracts require a certain service level of hotel, in all but the most extreme circumstances, even if it means going 30 miles away.


Back when I was scheduling for a US Regional, we were held by union contract to certain levels of quality at almost all times (interior access for example was required). We worked thru a third party hotel booker who had all of our requirements. Even during an IROP or sell out we had to meet them, this lead to a few times where crews ended up in a hotel an hour+ from the airport, for example I had a situation where a crew at YUL ended up at a ski resort near St. Jovite (120+km and about 1.5 hours by road), from all accounts it was a very nice hotel too.

To another poster questioning the situation of a hotel having 10 blocked airline rooms but needing them for a convention, they would at times coordinate to reaccommodate our crews at another property in these cases. We called these 'crew walks' and when done we would be informed ahead of time and all expenses related would be covered by the hotel.

On the topic of hotels one of my favorite stories involves a hotel that we used that advertised themselves as being haunted. We had a few crew members who requested another property over that lol.
“Racing's important to men who do it well. When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting.” ― Steve McQueen (Le Mans) 1971
 
CosmicCruiser
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Re: Why do aircrews stay in cities and not near the airport?

Sun Nov 15, 2020 5:19 pm

We had an internal dept who handled hotel/transportation. There were staff that would fly/ J/S to any new hotel and check it out before it was added to the accepted hotels.
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: Why do aircrews stay in cities and not near the airport?

Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:08 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Yeah it doesn't make sense and all it does is cause a pain for passengers. I can't tell you how many times I've been on the first flight out of MEM to have the gate agent tell us the crew is running late from downtown. No reason for it.


Late arrival requiring a later departure, duty block due to late arrival at the hotel, crash on the interstate between the hotel and the airport, fire alarm goes off at two AM, requiring an extended rest block. There are any number of reasons. Once you think you’ve seen them all, a new one pops up.
 
Sokes
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Re: Why do aircrews stay in cities and not near the airport?

Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:21 pm

T18 wrote:
On the topic of hotels one of my favorite stories involves a hotel that we used that advertised themselves as being haunted. We had a few crew members who requested another property over that lol.

You should take that more serious:
https://youtu.be/7Z43FLFy5ho&t=28s
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
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T18
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Re: Why do aircrews stay in cities and not near the airport?

Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:42 pm

Sokes wrote:
T18 wrote:
On the topic of hotels one of my favorite stories involves a hotel that we used that advertised themselves as being haunted. We had a few crew members who requested another property over that lol.

You should take that more serious:
https://youtu.be/7Z43FLFy5ho&t=28s

My theory, if they charge extra for a haunted room its a gimmick, now that Days Inn off the highway that tries to hide the haunting after the triple homicide, thats a problem.
“Racing's important to men who do it well. When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting.” ― Steve McQueen (Le Mans) 1971
 
Sokes
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Re: Why do aircrews stay in cities and not near the airport?

Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:50 pm

I read about a haunted house. Turns out a stove had cracks. People got carbon monoxide poisoning which led to hallucinations.
No idea if one can buy a machine that regulates CO concentrations for hotel rooms.
Hey, did I just find a new business model?
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?

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