Can a ferry pilot (by profession), if he is ferrying piston planes and has experience in ferrying and flying on piston planes weighing up to 5700 kg, start ferrying large planes and jet jets? If I get a rating like B737 or Cessna CJ, can I start ferrying these types as a ferry pilot if I am only a ferry driver at all? I work as a ferry pilot by profession. I have no experience flying large and jet planes. I will not go to the airline. And what experience and flight time do you need to have to start ferrying large planes and jet jets? Where to get this experience and plaque on the types? Please do not delete.

Does your CAA issue ferry pilot ratings? FAA world, if you’re rated in the plane, you can fly it anywhere, no ferry pilot rating.

In the US as long as you are type rated in the aircraft you can fly it. Even as a private pilot. (John travolta with is 707 type rating on his pilot certificate)

You’ll need a minimum of a commercial pilot certificate with the type rating to fly the 737 or CJ as all turbojet aircraft require a type rating and you’re doing it for compensation.

As to how much experience you need..... The limiting factor is not the FAA but the insurance companies who determine how much experience they are willing to insure.

There are some jets like the CJ are single pilot types so you can fly it alone

A 737 requires two pilots so you’ll only get to fly it if there is another type rated pilot going with you and you get to Duke it out over who gets to be pic.

As far as training goes flight safety, cae, lots of companies do type training. It just takes money. Depending on the employer, good employers invest in training and cover the cost of training their pilots. Shady operators put the cost of training on their pilots. I don’t know about ferry pilots. If you need training and can’t find someone to pay for it, you can always pay for it yourself.

But getting the experience. That’s on you. A jet type rating on a private or commercial pilot certificate will require a minimum of 25hrs under supervision depending on your specific circumstances.

But would companies want to hire me to ferry large planes or jet jets with little flying on these types? As far as I understand, airliner ferry pilots are people with a lot of experience flying in airlines and have mastered many types during their careers?

And how can you find a pilot who is more experienced for ferrying a large airplane, to ferry and also gain experience and raid for a ferry pilot? And how often do ferry pilots ferry large planes? Recent questions. Thanks!

That is, there are aircraft ferry companies that train their pilots from piston to jet pilots? And how many ferrymen have to master aircraft types?

My educated guess is that moving up to larger turboprop twins (Metros, Twotters, King Airs, etc.) would be the next step in this case. As mentioned above, insurance liabilities increase with aircraft size and value, so customers will desire/require more experience on larger types.

Arturrtyy wrote:

But would companies want to hire me to ferry large planes or jet jets with little flying on these types? As far as I understand, airliner ferry pilots are people with a lot of experience flying in airlines and have mastered many types during their careers?

99.99% of all ferry jobs on commercial types require 1500+ hours on type. It's for insurance reasons.

VSMUT wrote:

Arturrtyy wrote:

But would companies want to hire me to ferry large planes or jet jets with little flying on these types? As far as I understand, airliner ferry pilots are people with a lot of experience flying in airlines and have mastered many types during their careers?

99.99% of all ferry jobs on commercial types require 1500+ hours on type. It's for insurance reasons.

This is the most relevant point


You can spend a lot of money on a type rating but without substantial experience no one will hire you to fly it and honestly it wouldn’t be safe


Airlines type rate their pilots after extensive ground school, simulation training and then further supervision operating on the line before they are signed off


And a very important factor in this training is the pilot in question is a ‘known quantity’ often with extensive experience on other types so the insurance risk is low


A friend of mine ferries 737 / 757 and 767 aircraft for different operators all over the world but he is a retired Airline captain with thousands of hours in these types that can be substantiated


There’s no substitute for experience, on smaller, light aircraft and even some turboprops with no type rating required it’s common to be able to operate / ferry these with minimal time

But getting employment flying a transport aircraft even ‘just’ for ferrying is not just a question of buying a type rating



Without experience it’s just an expensive piece of paper

As Max Q alludes to, there are plenty to pilots out there with the experience to do this already. They got that experience by flying for airlines for years. I imagine it would be hard to get a job ferrying airliners without such experience, or maybe working for a manufacturer.

I'll add that unlike, say, ferrying a Cessna 206, across extensive stretches of water, ferrying a large airliner is typically not very different from what we do in normal operations. We fly those distances anyway. I did a recovery ferry once and the only differences were having to operate the doors ourselves and sorting out our own food and drink. And the ludicrously low final approach speed.

There are exceptions, of course, for example if you have to fly into an unfamiliar airport with limited facilities, e.g. a boneyard.

That is, it remains to overtake piston up to 5700? I just asked

Arturrtyy wrote:

That is, it remains to overtake piston up to 5700? I just asked

Ignoring the current situation, as mentioned above there are jobs on smaller turboprops, for example bush flying. A good way to get experience. And I don't think they'll give you ferry jobs without said experience. Same for the next step up to jets.

Is it difficult and how to become a test pilot in Europe and the USA? Do you need an aviation education?

An engineering background will definitely let you understand the function better. There is a civilian test pilot organization in California. The FAA also uses designees for Test Pilot functions.

Arturrtyy wrote:

Is it difficult and how to become a test pilot in Europe and the USA? Do you need an aviation education?

There are two distinct paths, one is a flight test engineer, the other a test pilot. Both are heavily involved in the R&D process.

Within the roles there is different levels ranging from experimental work through to air tests.

Generally, you’ll need an engineering degree in the US. Very specialized area of aviation without much opportunities. Experimental test is a subset where engineering is pretty much a base requirement and heavily populated by USAF or USN TPS grads, but a few sponsored grads of the civilian TPS at Mojave. Production test is a bit easier entry requirements and open to civilian pilot background.

EU, either engineering degree or prior military experience usually. Sometimes aircraft OEMs also recruit from their regular transport pilot pool, e. g. the Airbus Beluga fleet. Air forces often have their own internal test flying, for which they choose from their regular pilots and give them an extra education in test pilot schools.

I wouldn't plan a career around it but the skills and qualifications you need to become a test pilot can also open a lot of other interesting doors.

Can a test pilot be an aircraft designer in parallel?

If the company agrees and he has the required skills, yes. Same way a mechnic might do engineering too. Or FA's who do office work.

I can not exactly answer how exactly you would differentiate a designer and an engineer.

There was one sort of an obscure test pilot that was on the X-15 program for North American Aviation that was an Engineer. Sort of moved on to NASA did a little work over there. Piloted the Lunar Excursion Module to a landing on the Moon. You might try googling Neil Armstrong.

Okie

Can a pilot open his own airline or conduct business in parallel to work?

I suppose you could but you can't compete and you have to watch your flying hours.

For all the carriers I have worked for, you are prohibited from any flying for other than the airline you are working for. There is an exclusion for things like the ANG/RES flying. And, there is also a non-compete clause that prohibits you from working in the airline industry.

http://en.everybodywiki.com/James_Zockoll

This came to mind as soon as I read the thread. Jim Zockoll started Dyno-Rod when he was a pilot at Pan-Am. that’s a while back now! Obviously things will be a bit different these days.

I learned about this from reading Airport International by Bryan Moynahan when I was about 12. It started my interest in aviation. I’d recommend anyone interested in aviation read it. It’s a bit dated... But a fabulous read and I have since procured another copy. The author explains that lots of pilots started their own businesses on the sidelines as they can walk into a six-monthly medical and not have a job a few hours later.

Lots of pilots run a business or have a side job. I have colleagues who own restaurants and farms, hold various consulting jobs and so on. As tb727 says though, you wouldn't be allowed to hold a job that competes with the airline. Typically you also aren't allowed to fly aircraft over a certain weight without special permission. So flying a small aerobatic plane at airshows would be fine, but flying corporate jets would not.

A typical airline contract will state that you need permission from the company for outside employment. As long as you're not competing with the airline, and the job doesn't interfere with your flying duties, there are normally no issues.

A pilot cannot “open his own airline.”

At least in the US the FAA would consider a pilot trying to sell flights using a plane he owns or rents as trying to operate an illegal air carrier as he needs to obtain an air carrier certificate from the FAA before offering flights for compensation.

However he is more than welcome to apply and obtain one to start his own airline. At a minimum he would need to hire an director of operations, a director of maintenance and a chief pilot and obtain regulatory approvals to operate aircraft, routes, perform maintenance, training, etc. so this is beyond the scope of a single pilot trying to earn money by flying an aircraft.

I know a pilot who does home renovations on the side.

Woodreau wrote:

A pilot cannot “open his own airline.”

At least in the US the FAA would consider a pilot trying to sell flights using a plane he owns or rents as trying to operate an illegal air carrier as he needs to obtain an air carrier certificate from the FAA before offering flights for compensation.

However he is more than welcome to apply and obtain one to start his own airline. At a minimum he would need to hire an director of operations, a director of maintenance and a chief pilot and obtain regulatory approvals to operate aircraft, routes, perform maintenance, training, etc. so this is beyond the scope of a single pilot trying to earn money by flying an aircraft.

There are single pilot FAA 135 operators, usually a Bush plane.

The Captain of West Caribbean Airways Flight 708, the MD-82 that went down over Venezuela in 2005 with all 160 occupants lost, started a restaurant because the airline wasn't paying him on time - if it was paying him at all!

Starlionblue wrote:

Lots of pilots run a business or have a side job. I have colleagues who own restaurants and farms, hold various consulting jobs and so on. As tb727 says though, you wouldn't be allowed to hold a job that competes with the airline. Typically you also aren't allowed to fly aircraft over a certain weight without special permission. So flying a small aerobatic plane at airshows would be fine, but flying corporate jets would not.

A typical airline contract will state that you need permission from the company for outside employment. As long as you're not competing with the airline, and the job doesn't interfere with your flying duties, there are normally no issues.

Thanks. I often wondered on whether or not an airline pilot could also have a personal jet like a CJ3. Is it even possible to be current on two type ratings (other than for military reserve) at once?

TTailedTiger wrote:

Starlionblue wrote:

Lots of pilots run a business or have a side job. I have colleagues who own restaurants and farms, hold various consulting jobs and so on. As tb727 says though, you wouldn't be allowed to hold a job that competes with the airline. Typically you also aren't allowed to fly aircraft over a certain weight without special permission. So flying a small aerobatic plane at airshows would be fine, but flying corporate jets would not.

A typical airline contract will state that you need permission from the company for outside employment. As long as you're not competing with the airline, and the job doesn't interfere with your flying duties, there are normally no issues.

Thanks. I often wondered on whether or not an airline pilot could also have a personal jet like a CJ3. Is it even possible to be current on two type ratings (other than for military reserve) at once?

You can absolutely be current on two (or more) types. However, you have to do the regular sim checks, recurrent sim trainings, and line checks required for each type. That's a lot more time in the panic box every year, with associated prep time and costs. The extra time and cost are probably one of the main reasons why very few airline pilots have more than one "work rating" current at any given time.

I'm actually not sure whether personal flight time counts towards the weekly/monthly/daily hours limits. That would be the key factor. If the hours do count, an airline would deny permission simply because you're removing hours that you could potentially.

Even without the hours factor, I think many airlines would just say no. If there's an incident or accident the headline, "Captain for Fun Airlines crashes own private jet," is not the kind of publicity they're looking for. Flying a Tiger Moth at air shows is a very different matter.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

There are single pilot FAA 135 operators, usually a Bush plane.

So it appears.

Can someone go thru the process of obtaining one of those single pilot 135 certificates and run a 135 air taxi with a single pilot CJ as a side job and also be employed as an pilot by an another 121/135 air carrier?

I would imagine the process isn’t easy. And there is a section which allows a person to be a designated principal on multiple air carrier certificates

Otherwise there would be more than the 2000-3000 or so 135 air carriers out there and there would be more pilots offering their planes for hire by flipping their Uber app switch to “pilot/driver”

I knew a pilot that had a twin Cessna that ran a Part 135 operation and flew for a 121 carrier too. It was a little shady since the FAA and the 121 carrier really looks at flight AND duty time totals. He was a risk taker being the only pilot in his operation.

Not too long ago, a NW B747 senior captain was also a senior VP at Flight Safety Intl.

Woodreau wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

There are single pilot FAA 135 operators, usually a Bush plane.

Can someone go thru the process of obtaining one of those single pilot 135 certificates and run a 135 air taxi with a single pilot CJ as a side job and also be employed as an pilot by an another 121/135 air carrier?

Most airlines and other large corporations have conflict of interest clauses in their policy manuals which would prevent flying for more than one company.

One of the more unusual rule-skirting examples is the case of 'Captain X' at United, who was a founder and literally drew the initial route map for the current Frontier Airlines. Frontier management kept the secret until after his retirement from United. The original article in the Rocky Mountain News has been taken down, but someone helpfully copied and pasted the whole thing here:
http://www.airlineforums.com/threads/th ... in-x.9285/

Lots of pilots have side gigs. From what I've read and seen there's nothing wrong with it, as long as #1 you still meet all the requirements for duty day limits, rest periods, etc. and #2 your second job is not in any way in competition with the first job.

If you are a pilot at one airline and you start another airline flying overlapping routes that's probably going to be an issue. If you are a pilot and take a job driving lawn mowers at a golf course during your days off, nobodys going to care. If you are a pilot for a big airline and get a side job at a local flight school instructing, you'll have to be careful with your duty hours and rest periods but as long as you can keep that within the rules and that little flight school isn't taking any potential customers away from the big airline you fly for then you're fine.

1. Hello! Is it possible to carry out restoration work and be an aircraft technician without special education, but have good knowledge of aircraft design? Is it possible to work without education as a technician in small aircraft, if you have experience working with cars? And is it possible to unlearn a mechanics school and get a specialty? Or do you need to be trained as a mechanic in an institution?

2. And where can you get an aircraft mechanic training to work in GA, military aviation, civil aviation and space sphere? Do I need to get a separate education for each area, or can I move with the possibility of retraining to another area? Admin, please add this question! I'm young and just planning to go to aviation. Thanks!

This answer would depend on what country you’re talking about. You haven’t provided enough information.

What works in the US would be different for Europe or Australia or China.

Because the answer is the same for all aviation questions. “It depends”

Yungpilot1779 wrote:

1. Hello! Is it possible to carry out restoration work and be an aircraft technician without special education, but have good knowledge of aircraft design? Is it possible to work without education as a technician in small aircraft, if you have experience working with cars? And is it possible to unlearn a mechanics school and get a specialty? Or do you need to be trained as a mechanic in an institution?

2. And where can you get an aircraft mechanic training to work in GA, military aviation, civil aviation and space sphere? Do I need to get a separate education for each area, or can I move with the possibility of retraining to another area? Admin, please add this question! I'm young and just planning to go to aviation. Thanks!

The answer is generally no education is required, you can even build your own aircraft without formal training or education.

As with everything in aviation, there are levels within roles, everyone has to start from somewhere, to get a mechanics certificate you will need to get 30 months of experience or do a course to before you can do the A&P exam. https://www.faa.gov/mechanics/become/basic/

If you want to find schools near you that can provide the training have a look at this link https://av-info.faa.gov/MaintenanceSchool.asp

In the US it's tough finding a place to do the 30 months of experience. That will be willing to go through the trouble of accounting for your time, and give you a varied enough experience to satisfy the FAA.

In 18 months you can get the traditional inclass/practical tech school finished and take your test for an A&P. Many states have some decent programs for job training financial aid for tech schools. I know here in Georgia the Hope Scholarship is free tuition if you keep a B average.

Yes, you can work places without an A&P. The jobs tend to be pretty low pay and have no room to go up. As a 'helper' or what every term is used, your main tool might be a broom. That and your well worn safety shoes from "go get me this" requests.

For the US, the A&P is all that is needed for big and small category aircraft. For military, they train their own, but a civilian contractor would likely require an A&P to work a military contract. For space, the A&P might be a good thing to have as it demonstrates a skill level. Having experience in a specialty like welding, electronics, composites would also help in every one of these aviation spheres. The common thread is the A&P. Without it your application might not even get much of a look.

Can a test pilot go back to the Air Force or work in civil aviation? Are test pilots making contracts? And is it possible to study at a test pilot school for money? What other ways to get there? I found out another piece of information that through the test pilot school you can get a type rating or admission to a combat fighter, to your personal MiG-29 or Harrier-2. Is this really true information? Explain, please!

The military schools require being in a flying service of a military. NTPS, USAF TPS and ETPS all exchange students, so a Brit or Canadian might go to Pax River or an American or Swiss to ETPS. My brother’s NTPS had about 20% allied students including a Swiss officer. The National civilian
TPS is a tuition-based school. None of the military schools train for civil type ratings.

Need help and advice. I have a PPl with IR on my hands for a long time with 2000 hours of flight time. I want to go to CPL and start working and training on historical planes like B-17, B-24, P-51 Mustang. Have questions. Which companies are engaged in flight training and work at air shows. What are the work hours for the warbirds pilots? How much will admission to the B-17 cost, or can the company train itself? Is it difficult to get there if you have not flown in the Air Force, but only as a private pilot. Thanks if you answer!

It’s not a full-time pilot job, mostly flown by pilots who are wealthy and/or have long warbird experience. You’ll need lots of tailwheel time, mechanical experience in old planes and time to “hang around” warbird groups. Hang around, be a dependable gopher, soak up knowledge and become invited in.

I think this is one of those cases in which having a whole lot of money is a good first step.

And networking and rubbing shoulders with the right people and getting into the right social circles.

You need to know the right person[s] at the right moment. Short of paying your way into the cockpit ala pay-2-fly, there is no way of training to get such a gig. It comes down to luck, more or less.

AFAIK, Boultbee Flight Academy offers Spitfire training. But before you jump into it, note that they charge £4750 for 55 minutes...

Pretty much the only guys doing these things are retired airline pilots or air force vets. Usually without getting paid for it.

Why professional Red Bull Air Race pilots can combine pilot work, but other professional sports cannot?

And there are pilots here who combine extreme sports? How risky is it to do it so as not to get injured and bruised and leave your flying career? How to be careful and should you throw?

Need advice. An interesting question, of course.

Thanks)

Can you please tell me what is the work schedule for local or regional airlines, for example, on turboprop aircraft?