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x1234
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Gates with automatic sensor for the pilots instead of rampers

Wed Dec 16, 2020 6:33 pm

I saw this system in use in grand airports overseas and domestic (PVG-Shanghai Pudong, LHR-London Heathrow, LAX TBIT-Los Angeles) where instead of rampers there's a sensor programmed with the aircraft type and it tells in real time for the pilot to keep taxiing forward until it tells it tells the pilot to stop at the correct line. This is tech is safer than rampers with lights I guess. How come more airports don't have this as I believe this would be a savings in terms of labor. Is this system expensive?
 
Lpbri
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Re: Gates with automatic sensor for the pilots instead of rampers

Wed Dec 16, 2020 6:54 pm

Self park systems are not intended to replace rampers. Rather than wait on the ramp for rampers to arrive, holding up ramp traffic, using up fuel, incoming airplanes can park without waiting. Passengers can deplane quicker without missing connections. This is especially handy during a thunderstorm, when the ramp is closed due to lightning. Planes can still park with the ramp crew safely inside.
 
zuckie13
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Re: Gates with automatic sensor for the pilots instead of rampers

Wed Dec 16, 2020 6:55 pm

I dont' think it would save labor - those same rampers that flag the plane in are the ones that are going to be doing everything else including ground hook ups, unloading/loading the plane, pushing back, etc. This shaves 30 seconds off their job - maybe, that's it.
 
UpNAWAy
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Re: Gates with automatic sensor for the pilots instead of rampers

Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:49 pm

Nothing done on the ramp right now cannot be done better, safer and eventually cheaper with automation. The only thing stopping it is cultural, and political factors, but just like in manufacturing eventually this will happen in the airline industry too. My son actually works on an assembly line, his job is to run 4 robots that do the work, he never touches the actual product.
 
AAtakeMeAway
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Re: Gates with automatic sensor for the pilots instead of rampers

Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:21 pm

Doesn't AA have this at DFW (or had it at one point)?
 
Tristarsteve
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Re: Gates with automatic sensor for the pilots instead of rampers

Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:25 pm

In Europe, marshalling aircraft to a parking position is not carried out by rampers, but by airport employed staff. Here in Stockholm these guys were all replaced by automated docking systems about 10 years ago. I find the automated system is more accurate, especially when docking on a gate that only goes in and out..
The system must be switched on by a ramp agent, after he/she has inspected the ramp for FOD and obstacles, and selected the correct aircraft type.
Usually not a problem as on most types the distance from the nose to the L1 door is the same for A319 A320 and A321.
But our system was programmed for use with door L2 on B747.
Then a Syrian Arab B747SP arrives, and the ramp agent selected B747 Door 2, and the aircraft was stopped when the wing impacted the jetty with a metre left to taxi. OOps. Later that day the other Syrian 747SP turned up to collect the passengers.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: Gates with automatic sensor for the pilots instead of rampers

Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:35 pm

UA has self park in IAH. I have used it a few times and it really doesn't save any manpower. Unless the ramp is closed for lightning, they are still required to have a 3 man crew for arrival. 2 wingwalkers and someone who can activate an emergency stop signal to the self park system. I believe that is for redundancy as the self park system has some way of detecting a safety zone incursion.
 
PilotJAY16
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Re: Gates with automatic sensor for the pilots instead of rampers

Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:08 am

Delta has this in ATL at their gates from what I understand
 
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rj968
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Re: Gates with automatic sensor for the pilots instead of rampers

Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:31 am

UpNAWAy wrote:
Nothing done on the ramp right now cannot be done better, safer and eventually cheaper with automation. The only thing stopping it is cultural, and political factors, but just like in manufacturing eventually this will happen in the airline industry too. My son actually works on an assembly line, his job is to run 4 robots that do the work, he never touches the actual product.


You have obviously never worked on the ramp if you think ALL jobs could be replaced by automation. Show me a machine that can get on it’s hands and knees and load the belly bins/pits of a narrow body airliner or work around the engine to load the back of a CRJ not to mention the front belly compartment on the CRJ 700/900. And then there is hooking up the A/C, ground power, air start (if needed). How about placing the chocks? Just figuring out how to open the cargo compartment doors on different types is a challenge. Oh, and then the bin webbing! Can’t wait to see a machine that can clean the cabin/gallies and lavs and restock the gallies.

RJ968
 
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rj968
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Re: Gates with automatic sensor for the pilots instead of rampers

Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:33 am

Lpbri wrote:
Self park systems are not intended to replace rampers. Rather than wait on the ramp for rampers to arrive, holding up ramp traffic, using up fuel, incoming airplanes can park without waiting. Passengers can deplane quicker without missing connections. This is especially handy during a thunderstorm, when the ramp is closed due to lightning. Planes can still park with the ramp crew safely inside.

Long before fancy lights, some airlines just had an “arm” (PVC pipe covered with foam) attached to the jetway. The flight crew just taxied up until it touched the windshield. Of course, the airlines I saw using this just had one aircraft type, and the gate agent needed to leave the jetway/loading bridge in the correct position, but it worked fine.

RJ968
 
Max Q
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Re: Gates with automatic sensor for the pilots instead of rampers

Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:57 am

Not sure if it’s there anymore but Continental had a gate in IAH with a large mirror in front of it at ground level


You could see your nosewheel’s reflection as you got closer, when it went over the painted 727 line on the ramp (in our case) you stopped


Simple as it gets
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
GSOtoIND
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Re: Gates with automatic sensor for the pilots instead of rampers

Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:09 am

I'm pretty sure UPS has them at SDF. I vaguely remember reading about SLC's new terminal having them as well.
 
Alias1024
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Re: Gates with automatic sensor for the pilots instead of rampers

Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:42 am

GSOtoIND wrote:
I vaguely remember reading about SLC's new terminal having them as well.


Correct. All gates at the new SLC concourses have them along with electronic signage for displaying flight information like flight number, destination, countdown to departure, etc...
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
classicjets
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Re: Gates with automatic sensor for the pilots instead of rampers

Fri Dec 18, 2020 5:15 am

This kind of system is in use at HKG, however a marshaller will also stand on a platform below the automatic sign to take over manually should the system fail. Marshaling is done by airport authority ops department staff, so in this case they'd be the one saving manpower, not ground handlers, but only if they do away with the human backup in the future.

Sent from my ELE-L29 using Tapatalk
 
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zeke
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Re: Gates with automatic sensor for the pilots instead of rampers

Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:20 am

classicjets wrote:
This kind of system is in use at HKG, however a marshaller will also stand on a platform below the automatic sign to take over manually should the system fail. Marshaling is done by airport authority ops department staff, so in this case they'd be the one saving manpower, not ground handlers, but only if they do away with the human backup in the future.

Sent from my ELE-L29 using Tapatalk


I think hkg the alignment is automatic, the stop is done by the HKIA person at the gate. You will always see a yellow airport car at the gate.
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
 
FGITD
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Re: Gates with automatic sensor for the pilots instead of rampers

Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:38 pm

Most of the autodock systems don't entirely replace the marshalling duties of a ramper. Instead the guy who used to hold the wands is usually obligated to stand next to the emergency stop button. Plus in most places you still need wingwalkers.

The system where I work uses a laser detection system. Ramper programs it (basically selects the aircraft type on a screen) and when the aircraft approaches it detects it. I believe the lasers use the rightside engine as the reference point.

It's good for a consistent park job, but a good ramprat with some wands could guide a plane out of a parking garage
 
jjairbus
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Re: Gates with automatic sensor for the pilots instead of rampers

Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:55 am

Flying in Europe for a flag carrier I think 95% of the airports we fly have some kind of docking guidance system. Of course many of these are major hubs but also many minor airports have them. Right now I actually can’t remember arriving to a gate without this kind of system. Some airports also have similar systems installed on apron stands. Usually you’re not allowed to turn in to a gate if the system is not turned on or there isn’t a marshaller waving you in.
Airbus driver from Europe
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: Gates with automatic sensor for the pilots instead of rampers

Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:16 am

jjairbus wrote:
Flying in Europe for a flag carrier I think 95% of the airports we fly have some kind of docking guidance system. Of course many of these are major hubs but also many minor airports have them. Right now I actually can’t remember arriving to a gate without this kind of system. Some airports also have similar systems installed on apron stands. Usually you’re not allowed to turn in to a gate if the system is not turned on or there isn’t a marshaller waving you in.


I have the same experience. I can't remember offhand any airport I've operated to without an automatic docking system, except maybe Surabaya. And in Incheon, I seem to remember there's a marshaller. But I haven't been there in a while. I'm sure I've forgotten some port or other.

It's ubiquitous so when you get marshalled in by hand it's almost surprising.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo

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