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clrd4t8koff
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PHL runway 8

Sun Jan 24, 2021 3:21 pm

Does PHL ever allow landings on runway 8? It looks like the approach goes right over the terminals.
 
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3rdGen
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Re: PHL runway 8

Sun Jan 24, 2021 3:35 pm

I think the purpose is to help get GA/ExecJets away quickly from the FBO apron. As opposed to needing to taxi to the 9s.
لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
 
leader1
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Re: PHL runway 8

Sun Jan 24, 2021 3:47 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
Does PHL ever allow landings on runway 8? It looks like the approach goes right over the terminals.


No. It is a unidirectional runway. Landings on 26 and takeoffs on 8.
Leader-1
 
rbavfan
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Re: PHL runway 8

Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:09 pm

leader1 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
Does PHL ever allow landings on runway 8? It looks like the approach goes right over the terminals.


No. It is a unidirectional runway. Landings on 26 and takeoffs on 8.


All good until a private jet over runs and blocks 17/35 when a passenger jet is taking off or landing.
 
jbmitt
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Re: PHL runway 8

Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:15 pm

rbavfan wrote:
leader1 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
Does PHL ever allow landings on runway 8? It looks like the approach goes right over the terminals.


No. It is a unidirectional runway. Landings on 26 and takeoffs on 8.


All good until a private jet over runs and blocks 17/35 when a passenger jet is taking off or landing.


I'm pretty sure that ATC won't clear traffic like that. They still have to anticipate that landing traffic on 26 might need to go around. The spacing might be tight forcing other traffic on 17/35 to go around too, but they shouldn't be landing them at the same time.
 
GettingHigh38k
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Re: PHL runway 8

Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:25 pm

Landings on 26 can be run simultaneously with the 27's on VFR, not sure if 26 is IFR. Same goes for takeoffs on the 8 and 9's.
 
Jetport
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Re: PHL runway 8

Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:31 pm

I have landed on 26 many times, I don't recall ever taking off on 8, though I may have forgotten. Do commercial aircraft ever take off on 8?
 
iRISH251
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Re: PHL runway 8

Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:50 pm

A look at an aerial view will show that there are no threshold and touchdown zone markings on runway 8.
 
IAHFLYR
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Re: PHL runway 8

Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:10 pm

jbmitt wrote:
rbavfan wrote:
leader1 wrote:

No. It is a unidirectional runway. Landings on 26 and takeoffs on 8.


All good until a private jet over runs and blocks 17/35 when a passenger jet is taking off or landing.


I'm pretty sure that ATC won't clear traffic like that. They still have to anticipate that landing traffic on 26 might need to go around. The spacing might be tight forcing other traffic on 17/35 to go around too, but they shouldn't be landing them at the same time.


They don't. PHL TRACON uses Converging Runway Display Aid (CRDA), or at least used to use it and my guess is it's still an operational aid. They'll use it to sequence the 27R and 35 landing traffic, imagine they could and maybe use it with 26 arrivals and 35 arrivals as well.

Someone asked about an instrument approach to 26 and the answer is yes, they've got an ILS as well as RNAV approach procedures.
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
Q
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Re: PHL runway 8

Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:28 pm

Unsafe flying over for people in the terminal. It can be disastrous if take off or landing crash error stall or microburst or engine stall to kill people in the terminal at least 500 fatal do you want to get lawsuit high insurance fee rate for this? No! Better than nothing!

Q
 
gdavis003
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Re: PHL runway 8

Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:45 pm

delete
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: PHL runway 8

Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:00 pm

Q wrote:
Unsafe flying over for people in the terminal. It can be disastrous if take off or landing crash error stall or microburst or engine stall to kill people in the terminal at least 500 fatal do you want to get lawsuit high insurance fee rate for this? No! Better than nothing!

Q


What? Please proofread before hitting ‘submit’ and use punctuation. That aside, no, it isn’t unsafe.
Whatever
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: PHL runway 8

Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:01 pm

rbavfan wrote:
leader1 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
Does PHL ever allow landings on runway 8? It looks like the approach goes right over the terminals.


No. It is a unidirectional runway. Landings on 26 and takeoffs on 8.


All good until a private jet over runs and blocks 17/35 when a passenger jet is taking off or landing.


It doesn’t work like that, champ. It’s all good and not unsafe.
Whatever
 
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LotsaRunway
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Re: PHL runway 8

Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:33 am

Jetport wrote:
I have landed on 26 many times, I don't recall ever taking off on 8, though I may have forgotten. Do commercial aircraft ever take off on 8?

Maybe not recently, but I have been on an ERJ taking off from 8. I was pretty excited when we made the turn onto it. A bunch of ERJs were using it that day, but not all. Probably all short hops loaded with less fuel.
 
bigb
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Re: PHL runway 8

Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:58 am

Jetport wrote:
I have landed on 26 many times, I don't recall ever taking off on 8, though I may have forgotten. Do commercial aircraft ever take off on 8?


Often if the performance data was available. Captain only takeoff though....
 
saab2000
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Re: PHL runway 8

Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:21 am

Jetport wrote:
I have landed on 26 many times, I don't recall ever taking off on 8, though I may have forgotten. Do commercial aircraft ever take off on 8?


I flew CRJs off of 8 many times. I don’t recall ever seeing anything larger use 8 or 26.
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CRJockey
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Re: PHL runway 8

Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:37 pm

bigb wrote:
Jetport wrote:
I have landed on 26 many times, I don't recall ever taking off on 8, though I may have forgotten. Do commercial aircraft ever take off on 8?


Often if the performance data was available. Captain only takeoff though....


Why CPT only? What could a CPT do a FO couldn’t despite lifting it off at Vr or stopping with calculated balanced field prior V1?

I get the CPT only for landings, but take offs?
 
wagz
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Re: PHL runway 8

Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:25 pm

rbavfan wrote:
All good until a private jet over runs and blocks 17/35 when a passenger jet is taking off or landing.


As said before, this is ludicrous. The 26 RSA extends through Rwy 35 and even to Twy E on the west side of 35. During a 26 landing both 35 and Twy E are treated as if they intersect the runway until the lander on 26 is at taxi speed.

IAHFLYR wrote:
They don't. PHL TRACON uses Converging Runway Display Aid (CRDA), or at least used to use it and my guess is it's still an operational aid. They'll use it to sequence the 27R and 35 landing traffic, imagine they could and maybe use it with 26 arrivals and 35 arrivals as well.

Someone asked about an instrument approach to 26 and the answer is yes, they've got an ILS as well as RNAV approach procedures.


Yeah we still have CRDA at PHL and use it for 27R/35 as well as several other operations, but there is no CRDA for 26. Because of the RSA issues 26 is a glorified taxiway. During Covid times since it can be quite dead at times we're putting GAs on it more often though, but we'll try to always offer it to Medevacs since its right next to the FBO.

Not sure what the other person was asking about it being an IFR runway. There are instrument approaches but they would require in trail spacing with 27R arrivals (0.5nm more actually due to quirky rules). Also the glideslope for the 26 ILS is steeper than normal due to the shipyard cranes and I recall back in the day when it was used more that CRJs were unable to take the ILS.
I think Big Foot is blurry... It's not the photographer's fault. There's a large out of focus monster roaming the countryside.
 
DualQual
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Re: PHL runway 8

Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:08 pm

CRJockey wrote:
bigb wrote:
Jetport wrote:
I have landed on 26 many times, I don't recall ever taking off on 8, though I may have forgotten. Do commercial aircraft ever take off on 8?


Often if the performance data was available. Captain only takeoff though....


Why CPT only? What could a CPT do a FO couldn’t despite lifting it off at Vr or stopping with calculated balanced field prior V1?

I get the CPT only for landings, but take offs?


It may have to do with transfer of controls on a rejected takeoff. You’re taking one more step out if performance is critical.
There's no known cure for stupid
 
CRJockey
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Re: PHL runway 8

Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:36 pm

DualQual wrote:
CRJockey wrote:
bigb wrote:

Often if the performance data was available. Captain only takeoff though....


Why CPT only? What could a CPT do a FO couldn’t despite lifting it off at Vr or stopping with calculated balanced field prior V1?

I get the CPT only for landings, but take offs?


It may have to do with transfer of controls on a rejected takeoff. You’re taking one more step out if performance is critical.


Yes, that could be one piece of the puzzle. At my outfit, the CPT would have his hands on the levers until V1 anyway and transfer of control (braking, really, and keeping the craft on the centerline) is implicit in the "stop case".
 
DualQual
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Re: PHL runway 8

Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:05 pm

CRJockey wrote:
DualQual wrote:
CRJockey wrote:

Why CPT only? What could a CPT do a FO couldn’t despite lifting it off at Vr or stopping with calculated balanced field prior V1?

I get the CPT only for landings, but take offs?


It may have to do with transfer of controls on a rejected takeoff. You’re taking one more step out if performance is critical.


Yes, that could be one piece of the puzzle. At my outfit, the CPT would have his hands on the levers until V1 anyway and transfer of control (braking, really, and keeping the craft on the centerline) is implicit in the "stop case".


My outfit the Captain has lower allowable takeoff RVR than the FO. Simply has to do with control swaps on a reject. That’s the only reason I could think of for an operator designating a runway as Captain only.
There's no known cure for stupid
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: PHL runway 8

Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:16 am

CRJockey wrote:
DualQual wrote:
CRJockey wrote:

Why CPT only? What could a CPT do a FO couldn’t despite lifting it off at Vr or stopping with calculated balanced field prior V1?

I get the CPT only for landings, but take offs?


It may have to do with transfer of controls on a rejected takeoff. You’re taking one more step out if performance is critical.


Yes, that could be one piece of the puzzle. At my outfit, the CPT would have his hands on the levers until V1 anyway and transfer of control (braking, really, and keeping the craft on the centerline) is implicit in the "stop case".


Same with us. FO sets thrust, them removes hand from thrust levers. Captain places hand on thrust levers until V1. We both have feet on the pedals. All the captain has to say is "STOP!" Since his hands are on the relevant controls already all the FO has to do is not make any inputs.

"STOP!" implies transfer of control, and is the only such even where we don't say "I have control," "You have control"
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
bigb
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Re: PHL runway 8

Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:27 am

CRJockey wrote:
bigb wrote:
Jetport wrote:
I have landed on 26 many times, I don't recall ever taking off on 8, though I may have forgotten. Do commercial aircraft ever take off on 8?


Often if the performance data was available. Captain only takeoff though....


Why CPT only? What could a CPT do a FO couldn’t despite lifting it off at Vr or stopping with calculated balanced field prior V1?

I get the CPT only for landings, but take offs?


My previous shop had a ops bulletin that mandated that takeoffs from runway 8 was encouraged if you had the performance but it was designated as a Captain only T/O. Plus for the reject, removal of the transfer of controls is eliminated. It may not seem like a big deal, but 5000 feet comes quick..... FOM mandated all operations on runways that were 5000 feet or short Captain only maneuver.
 
phatfarmlines
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Re: PHL runway 8

Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:13 pm

I've seen in prior PHL Master Plans a proposal to extend this runway to full-length (>7K-8K ft) to allow mainline runway usage. Is that still in the works?

Q wrote:
Unsafe flying over for people in the terminal. It can be disastrous if take off or landing crash error stall or microburst or engine stall to kill people in the terminal at least 500 fatal do you want to get lawsuit high insurance fee rate for this? No! Better than nothing!


Nothing that a long displaced threshold can't fix if the runway is extended. Is this any more different than say, the various brownstone homes that are on the path of runway 4 at LGA?
 
wagz
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Re: PHL runway 8

Sat Jan 30, 2021 4:03 pm

phatfarmlines wrote:
I've seen in prior PHL Master Plans a proposal to extend this runway to full-length (>7K-8K ft) to allow mainline runway usage. Is that still in the works?

Q wrote:
Unsafe flying over for people in the terminal. It can be disastrous if take off or landing crash error stall or microburst or engine stall to kill people in the terminal at least 500 fatal do you want to get lawsuit high insurance fee rate for this? No! Better than nothing!


Nothing that a long displaced threshold can't fix if the runway is extended. Is this any more different than say, the various brownstone homes that are on the path of runway 4 at LGA?


I don't think any of the wild schemes in the prior master plans are still on the table, since no one wanted to pay for them. From an air traffic perspective, increasing the length of 26 to allow more ops solves no capacity issues in the least. The issues we have are hard IFR weather landing a single runway, and running aircraft to 26 and 27R simultaneously in IFR weather is impossible (not to mention as I noted earlier the current glide slope is steeper than 3 degrees let alone one further east). Also aircraft utilizing 26 prevent operations on 17/35 so its pointless at any length.

While Q was being overly dramatic, the AAL ramp tower at 200ish+ feet tall sits dead center on the extended centerline of 8/26. There is no amount of displaced threshold that would allow you to land runway 8. Also, aircraft are prohibited from overflying the terminals below 500 feet.
I think Big Foot is blurry... It's not the photographer's fault. There's a large out of focus monster roaming the countryside.
 
IAHFLYR
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Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:56 am

Re: PHL runway 8

Sat Jan 30, 2021 4:39 pm

wagz wrote:
From an air traffic perspective, increasing the length of 26 to allow more ops solves no capacity issues in the least. The issues we have are hard IFR weather landing a single runway, and running aircraft to 26 and 27R simultaneously in IFR weather is impossible (not to mention as I noted earlier the current glide slope is steeper than 3 degrees let alone one further east). Also aircraft utilizing 26 prevent operations on 17/35 so its pointless at any length.


Which makes me soooooo glad I worked at a place where we could land three parallel runways at a time in all weather except when thunderstorms were impacting the finals! :bouncy:
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.

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