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AngelsDecay
Topic Author
Posts: 105
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:19 pm

Pacific Clipperton FIR doubt..!?

Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:56 am

Hi all...until now i keep this doubt and would kindly request if anyone here could give me some light about it, please.

According this ICAO Doc from 2019 there is a portion of Pacific Ocean with a "Ghost FIR" non-atribbuted no anyone (Pages 6 & 10)

https://www.icao.int/SAM/Documents/2019 ... ssions.pdf

However according this aviation&intelligence services provider, ops.group, that portion of FIR at the same time belongs to Semi Independent Island Clipperton.

https://ops.group/blog/fsb-and-opsgroup ... -airspace/

However if the island is uninhabited according Wiki, how do they manage to get a FIR, Control and even a CAA as per this:

DCA Clipperton: Home » http://dca.clipperton-gov.co/
http://dca.clipperton-gov.co/files/AIC/ ... ceanic.pdf

Is this for real?
Who are behind the Clipperton CAA, ATC, FIR NPCX?
Where are the ATC'ers & CAA and physical buildings/installations?
Or is this a kind of Bogus stuff?

On their contacts the phone number starts with +951 wich Googles says its South California.
DCA H.Q Building, Clipperton International Airport, Clipperton 11021, Clipperton +951 533015 +951 533016

http://dca.clipperton-gov.co/contact-us

However the phone numbers are the same as Myanmar CAA:
https://favt.gov.ru/dejatelnost-mezhdun ... ja?id=1558

Phone +951 533015 Fax +951 533016 (coincidence maybe)?

My apologies but until now as far and more i search, more doubtful i become...

Tanx in advance...AD
"Well be thy one,
and wisdom too.
And grew, and joyed in my growth.
From a word to a word, I was lead to a Wyrd.
From a deed, to another deed."
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 7760
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Pacific Clipperton FIR doubt..!?

Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:18 am

All a hoax, I believe. On Jepp enroute it’s stil “NO FIR” or XX03 FIR. No airways or waypoints as described in the NOTAM. Sounds bogus like “ERCAN” in Turkish Cyprus.
 
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Florianopolis
Posts: 367
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2015 2:54 pm

Re: Pacific Clipperton FIR doubt..!?

Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:36 am

Their logo looks official enough to me:

Image

And their "website" is straight jacked from Myanmar's civil aviation authority*.
cf https://www.dca.gov.mm/ and http://dca.clipperton-gov.co/

It looks like it's done by these folks: https://ops.group/story/what-is-opsgroup-all-about/, which appears to be a loose group of aviation professionals tired of civil aviation authorities being incompetent at best (corrupt at worst), that don't do anything to make international aviation safer or user-friendly. I don't know if the Clipperton thing is an over-done satire or an actual attempt to semi-organize an unorganized FIR for safety reasons (making it look real with with an "Aeronautical Information Circular" doesn't seem like a great idea).

They do make some good points though:

“We’ve seen enough. Ercan (the Cyprus based Turkish ATC centre) doesn’t officially exist, yet you have to call them every time. French Guyana seems to have abandoned their ATC centre. Several African countries have outsourced their entire Permit Department, meaning you have to pay extortionate amounts just to secure a routine overflight. Greece and Turkey continue to hijack the Notam system for a diplomatic war. CASA Australia, like many others, continues to publish absolutely unreadable Notams, endangering safety. Nobody dares to enter the Simferopol FIR. The French ATC service is on strike more often than they are not. Libya lies about the security risks at their airports. Egypt and Kenya refuse to publish safety information because it would harm their tourism.”


“If all these agencies can exist with a poor service, then why not try something different? Clipperton puts the users in charge, and we get to decide whether any of these rules or procedures actually serve us. Now that we have our own airspace, we can make it safe and user-friendly rather than userhostile. And the South Pacific is the perfect place to start.”



*Perhaps "Authority" should be in quotes there, too, given what's happened to civil aviation there lately.
 
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Starlionblue
Posts: 20692
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

Re: Pacific Clipperton FIR doubt..!?

Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:46 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
All a hoax, I believe. On Jepp enroute it’s stil “NO FIR” or XX03 FIR. No airways or waypoints as described in the NOTAM. Sounds bogus like “ERCAN” in Turkish Cyprus.


ERCAN is bogus? I've talked to them on many occasions. ;)
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 7760
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Pacific Clipperton FIR doubt..!?

Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:52 pm

I’ve talked to them numerous times, too, but it’s still bogus. There’s no ERCAN FIR, it’s not recognized by ICAO, last I heard. There was a Jepp briefing on the hazards; DOD rules made it clear that it wasn’t to be recognized as controlling Larnaca airspace, which created more hazards.
 
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Starlionblue
Posts: 20692
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

Re: Pacific Clipperton FIR doubt..!?

Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:12 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
I’ve talked to them numerous times, too, but it’s still bogus. There’s no ERCAN FIR, it’s not recognized by ICAO, last I heard. There was a Jepp briefing on the hazards; DOD rules made it clear that it wasn’t to be recognized as controlling Larnaca airspace, which created more hazards.


I see what you mean.

And yes, it is a weird arrangement in that area.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
AngelsDecay
Topic Author
Posts: 105
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:19 pm

Re: Pacific Clipperton FIR doubt..!?

Thu Feb 25, 2021 5:45 pm

Tanx to all :)
"Well be thy one,
and wisdom too.
And grew, and joyed in my growth.
From a word to a word, I was lead to a Wyrd.
From a deed, to another deed."

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