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thebunkerparodi
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what kind of process does a company have to do when she's working on a new livery?

Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:37 pm

Hello, I know that they'll have to produce multiple concept like what the lufthansa and SAS did,but what are the other part of the process? I guess they can test what they come with on real aircraft or aircraft part.

Thanks for your answer!
 
flight152
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Re: what kind of process does a company have to do when she's working on a new livery?

Wed Mar 10, 2021 4:32 pm

Who is she?
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: what kind of process does a company have to do when she's working on a new livery?

Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:15 am

thebunkerparodi wrote:
Hello, I know that they'll have to produce multiple concept like what the lufthansa and SAS did,but what are the other part of the process? I guess they can test what they come with on real aircraft or aircraft part.

Thanks for your answer!


This is really no different from any other branding exercise.

Ask design bureaus to come up with concepts. They will do their own proposals and focus group cycle.

Then it comes back to the company, which also tests it on audiences.

I don't think anyone will paint an actual aircraft with a test livery.
 
rigo
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Re: what kind of process does a company have to do when she's working on a new livery?

Thu Mar 11, 2021 2:43 am

Starlionblue wrote:
thebunkerparodi wrote:
Hello, I know that they'll have to produce multiple concept like what the lufthansa and SAS did,but what are the other part of the process? I guess they can test what they come with on real aircraft or aircraft part.

Thanks for your answer!


This is really no different from any other branding exercise.

Ask design bureaus to come up with concepts. They will do their own proposals and focus group cycle.

Then it comes back to the company, which also tests it on audiences.

I don't think anyone will paint an actual aircraft with a test livery.


Beyond that I wonder if there are any technical requirements or regulations (visibility, sun reflection or whatever). I know for example that Concorde had to be painted white for heat dissipation in supersonic flight.
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: what kind of process does a company have to do when she's working on a new livery?

Thu Mar 11, 2021 2:54 am

rigo wrote:
Starlionblue wrote:
thebunkerparodi wrote:
Hello, I know that they'll have to produce multiple concept like what the lufthansa and SAS did,but what are the other part of the process? I guess they can test what they come with on real aircraft or aircraft part.

Thanks for your answer!


This is really no different from any other branding exercise.

Ask design bureaus to come up with concepts. They will do their own proposals and focus group cycle.

Then it comes back to the company, which also tests it on audiences.

I don't think anyone will paint an actual aircraft with a test livery.


Beyond that I wonder if there are any technical requirements or regulations (visibility, sun reflection or whatever). I know for example that Concorde had to be painted white for heat dissipation in supersonic flight.


Aircraft registration markings are of course mandated. I believe some airlines also commit to marketing for the manufacturer, for example, prominent manufacturer names.

Back in the days of yore, paint under the cockpit windows was typically black due to sun reflection. With modern paints, this requirement went away.

Apart from hot surfaces that cannot be painted, and composites that can't have a bare metal look, I imagine there aren't many limitations on modern airliners.
 
MO11
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Re: what kind of process does a company have to do when she's working on a new livery?

Thu Mar 11, 2021 2:55 am

Starlionblue wrote:
I don't think anyone will paint an actual aircraft with a test livery.


There have been plenty.
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: what kind of process does a company have to do when she's working on a new livery?

Thu Mar 11, 2021 4:02 am

MO11 wrote:
Starlionblue wrote:
I don't think anyone will paint an actual aircraft with a test livery.


There have been plenty.


Fair play. Any examples?
 
mxaxai
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Re: what kind of process does a company have to do when she's working on a new livery?

Thu Mar 11, 2021 12:27 pm

On some GA aircraft, you mustn't paint some parts black (or any other dark colour). They could get hot in the sun, which (in the case of CFRP or other plastics) can weaken the structure or (in the case of hatches and openings) can jam the mechanisms. It gets annoying when you try to close the door or canopy on a sunny day and notice that it's physically too large to fit thanks to thermal expansion.

I've never seen similar restrictions on commercial aircraft, though.
 
TheSonntag
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Re: what kind of process does a company have to do when she's working on a new livery?

Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:48 pm

A lot of backoffice departments (the guys who are always suspected by the "front line personnel" to not being working at all) will be involved.

First, the technical department will come up with guidelines on which technical rules have to be met. Then the marketing department will make surveys and develop a brand structure. They usually do not do that alone, so they have to order external companies who are experts for this. Therefore, the people from procurement are also involved in getting framework agreements with design companies.

Those come up with several ideas. Then, the technical department and the brand department meet in several meetings to see what is possible. They also ask controlling for the budget available, since there are likely some constraints on what the livery may cost. A Wunala Dreaming is a LOT more expensive than Eurowhite.

After that, other experts scale up the plans of the livery to airplane size. The guy from paint job are getting those plans and painting.

I am certain that I have forgotten some people. I work in the legal department of a german Dax company (not connected to aviation) but it would work like this over here.

Generally, the back office people and their importance is quite often underrated by front line personnel. While it is true that we are sitting in front of the computer all the day just drinking coffee, and doing countless stupid meetings, we are usually thinking ahead and organising the future. This can be challenging.
 
MO11
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Re: what kind of process does a company have to do when she's working on a new livery?

Thu Mar 11, 2021 3:44 pm

Starlionblue wrote:
MO11 wrote:
Starlionblue wrote:
I don't think anyone will paint an actual aircraft with a test livery.


There have been plenty.


Fair play. Any examples?



Start here:

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=131167

https://www.airliners.net/photo/USAir/Boeing-737-3B7/224159/L

USAIr also had a second scheme on a DC-9 at the same time.
 
flybaurlax
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Re: what kind of process does a company have to do when she's working on a new livery?

Thu Mar 11, 2021 7:33 pm

Starlionblue wrote:
MO11 wrote:
Starlionblue wrote:
I don't think anyone will paint an actual aircraft with a test livery.


There have been plenty.


Fair play. Any examples?



AS had 2 or 3 aircraft with a modified livery, mainly on the winglets before the current livery refresh.
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Alaska- ... rl%2BdNzJf

This was during a time where the company was soul searching on what our brand should look like. Then we got a new VP and a decision was made and the result is as you see it today. However, it was peculiar to see a few planes that were unicorns in the fleet.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: what kind of process does a company have to do when she's working on a new livery?

Thu Mar 11, 2021 9:05 pm

Starlionblue wrote:
I don't think anyone will paint an actual aircraft with a test livery.


NW did:
 
trav110
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Re: what kind of process does a company have to do when she's working on a new livery?

Fri Mar 12, 2021 1:00 am

Air Canada experimented with a bare metal livery on one of its 767s in the 2000s

 
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Starlionblue
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Re: what kind of process does a company have to do when she's working on a new livery?

Fri Mar 12, 2021 2:00 am

I stand corrected!
 
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thebunkerparodi
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Re: what kind of process does a company have to do when she's working on a new livery?

Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:07 am

I'd imagine that company like lufthansa would do more than 5 concept art for their new livery right?

Lufthansa did a experiment on a 737
Image
from viewtopic.php?t=1344515
(I wonder if this is also why they decided not to g with the "all yellow" concept)
 
 
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DL_Mech
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Re: what kind of process does a company have to do when she's working on a new livery?

Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:32 am

.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: what kind of process does a company have to do when she's working on a new livery?

Sun Mar 14, 2021 7:32 am

In 2017 I was a part of an employee focus group (of about 10 people from several departments) on the new United livery that debuted in 2019. The colors they showed me were the same as the final version, but the proposed livery was a bit different than what was ultimately chosen.

That shows you how long these decisions can take as that was in the works for at least 2 years before the public unveil.

The ad agency/marketing company holds focus groups with customers, employees, potential customers, random noncustomers in the target demographic (for example they may look for middle-aged, upper-middle-class folks who shop at Costco or hold an American Express card, etc.), and then submits their findings back to the company with what livery or branding change struck the most resonance with the target demographics of current customers, potential customers, employees, and random public (if they held any of the last group). Ultimately the higher-ups make the final call.

It was exciting to go in and be a part of that group. Although the livery the marketing consultant showed me was much sharper than the current livery, which I also like.
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: what kind of process does a company have to do when she's working on a new livery?

Sun Mar 14, 2021 2:17 pm

Starlionblue wrote:
rigo wrote:

Beyond that I wonder if there are any technical requirements or regulations (visibility, sun reflection or whatever). I know for example that Concorde had to be painted white for heat dissipation in supersonic flight.


Aircraft registration markings are of course mandated. I believe some airlines also commit to marketing for the manufacturer, for example, prominent manufacturer names.

Back in the days of yore, paint under the cockpit windows was typically black due to sun reflection. With modern paints, this requirement went away.

Apart from hot surfaces that cannot be painted, and composites that can't have a bare metal look, I imagine there aren't many limitations on modern airliners.



Exits also must contrast with the parent/background color. Ditto any placarding.

flybaurlax wrote:

AS had 2 or 3 aircraft with a modified livery, mainly on the winglets before the current livery refresh.
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Alaska- ... rl%2BdNzJf
.


Were there not a lot more than two or three? I seem to have quite a few flights —from a goodly number of stations— on those. . .
 
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Strebav8or
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Re: what kind of process does a company have to do when she's working on a new livery?

Sun Mar 14, 2021 2:37 pm

Only issue I have ever seen was the fact that HondaJet had to get approval from the Government to paint their aircraft green.
 
KingOrGod
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Re: what kind of process does a company have to do when she's working on a new livery?

Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:04 pm

Sometimes it seems as if they blindfold kids and give them crayons... and sometimes it seems there is a "buy 1 get 100 free" special offer on white paint...
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: what kind of process does a company have to do when she's working on a new livery?

Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:42 pm

I liked the USAF AMC story about going from European One camouflage to the current gray. Lots of prepared staff weenies, PowerPoint presentations, models of different shades that had all reviewed and approved for final 4-star okay. The assembled officers expected a long presentations when said 4-star walked in, said, “I like that one” and walked out.
 
mxaxai
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Re: what kind of process does a company have to do when she's working on a new livery?

Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:35 pm

KingOrGod wrote:
and sometimes it seems there is a "buy 1 get 100 free" special offer on white paint...

To an extent, there is. White is a common color, whereas most others are unique to each airline. It's always in stock. That makes it cheaper to paint the whole aircraft, but also spare parts and repairs.

For example, Germanwings (4U) used to have a pretty unique silver livery. As they're part of LH group, you would sometimes see a silver 4U A320 with a LH radome (in the old LH grey-white scheme), or vice versa. Then 4U got rebranded with a LH-like livery, which made it less visible to exchange parts between the two. Sometimes you'd get all-white radomes, though. Fast forward to today, all 4 group airlines feature a variation of a eurowhite livery.

Durability is another factor. White can look dirty if unwashed but it doesn't fade or discolor over time. Compare this TUI 787, for example, with a pretty washed out look.
 
FGITD
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Re: what kind of process does a company have to do when she's working on a new livery?

Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:38 pm

I believe white has also traditionally been a “free color” when buying an aircraft. I recall reading that A and B both offer white+ 2 colors

Which when you look at many liveries, suddenly makes sense.
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: what kind of process does a company have to do when she's working on a new livery?

Sun Mar 21, 2021 10:24 am

I'm not sure this strictly fits the criteria for a 'test livery', but U2 did paint this single aircraft in a ghastly livery. It had been painted in the old standard livery, then came out looking like this, it has since been repainted into the new standard livery. It's slightly weird as it doesn't look like a simple modification from the old one or to the new one, it had to be a complete repaint.



I recall that U2 gave a vote to their staff on which of two livery variations should be applied.

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=581937
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: what kind of process does a company have to do when she's working on a new livery?

Sun Mar 21, 2021 10:44 am

mxaxai wrote:
KingOrGod wrote:
and sometimes it seems there is a "buy 1 get 100 free" special offer on white paint...

To an extent, there is. White is a common color, whereas most others are unique to each airline. It's always in stock. That makes it cheaper to paint the whole aircraft, but also spare parts and repairs.

For example, Germanwings (4U) used to have a pretty unique silver livery. As they're part of LH group, you would sometimes see a silver 4U A320 with a LH radome (in the old LH grey-white scheme), or vice versa. Then 4U got rebranded with a LH-like livery, which made it less visible to exchange parts between the two. Sometimes you'd get all-white radomes, though. Fast forward to today, all 4 group airlines feature a variation of a eurowhite livery.

Durability is another factor. White can look dirty if unwashed but it doesn't fade or discolor over time. Compare this TUI 787, for example, with a pretty washed out look.


VJ are another whose colours don't seem to age well.

Comparing the same A320 (VN-A689) in 2013 and 2020 you see how noticeable the change is.

.

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