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seatback
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Airlines that don't require their crews to overnight

Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:56 pm

From what I understand, Allegiant doesn't require their crews to overnight; they begin and end their day in their base city. What other airlines do this? I would imagine Hawaiian interstate, Silver, Ravn, and other commuters don't. Any ideas?
 
JoseSalazar
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Re: Airlines that don't require their crews to overnight

Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:59 pm

Breeze E190/195 will be day trips only, at least that has been the plan.
 
Flow2706
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Re: Airlines that don't require their crews to overnight

Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:01 pm

As far as I know Ryanair and EasyJet don’t have scheduled overnights. Unfortunately, overnights have become relatively uncommon for short/medium haul flights with many airlines.
 
Avgeek21
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Re: Airlines that don't require their crews to overnight

Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:06 pm

Flow2706 wrote:
As far as I know Ryanair and EasyJet don’t have scheduled overnights. Unfortunately, overnights have become relatively uncommon for short/medium haul flights with many airlines.


Make that fortunately. I’d rather be home everyday than spend time away in hotels. No matter how good they are and how ‘great’ a trip is. No thank you. Day trips all day every day...
 
seatback
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Re: Airlines that don't require their crews to overnight

Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:07 pm

It seems like it would be a double-edged sword. I can see a big part of the attraction, especially for FA is to travel the country/world. Day trips don't provide the same experience. I can also see people who want to fly but don't like being away from home.
 
AWK123
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Re: Airlines that don't require their crews to overnight

Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:25 pm

A know all commuter and short haul crews in Australia and New Zealand overnight. QF and QFlink, Air NZ and their regional subsidiaries, Jetstar, Virgin Australia, Alliance, Air Chathams etc etc. When I worked for Qantas we would sometimes do four 3hr sectors over a 5 day trip. When I worked for Air NZ regional we would sometimes do 1 55min sector into an overnight. Heck when I worked for TigerAir we would sometimes do one sector into Perth, 3 night stay and one sector home.
 
johns624
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Re: Airlines that don't require their crews to overnight

Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:27 pm

seatback wrote:
It seems like it would be a double-edged sword. I can see a big part of the attraction, especially for FA is to travel the country/world. Day trips don't provide the same experience. I can also see people who want to fly but don't like being away from home.
The way schedules are set up, there isn't much time for "sightseeing" most of the time.
 
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sjones1975
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Re: Airlines that don't require their crews to overnight

Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:28 pm

seatback wrote:
I would imagine Hawaiian interstate, Silver, Ravn, and other commuters don't


I'm guessing you mean Hawaiian intrastate. Interstate to California and further would need a hotel.

As for Hawaiian intrastate, one would think that given the relatively short distances and high frequencies involved, it would be easy for HA to make sure its crews get home each night. Given Hawaii hotel rates (even with negotiated corporate discount), it would be rather expensive not to get crews home nightly as a matter of practice.
my longest flight in a 757: FRU-ADA-SNN-BWI
 
e38
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Re: Airlines that don't require their crews to overnight

Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:44 pm

Avgeek21 wrote:
I’d rather be home everyday than spend time away in hotels . . .Day trips all day every day...


Not for me; I do not like day trips! (well, once in a while is ok).

In my case, it is about a 45 - 60 minute drive to the airport from my home, and I don't want to do that frequently. (Yes, I know, many people commute to and from work much further than that and do it 20 or more days a month, but I prefer not to). At the company at which I work, flying day trips only would require about 12 - 13 days to fill a normal monthly schedule; i.e., 12 - 13 trips to the airport.

I think that is the benefit of a career with an airline--the flexibility to choose--and as you can see, everyone has different preferences.

With our monthly bid package (U.S. domestic network), the company builds everything from one day trips to five day trips.

I usually select trips that are 4 or 5 days long which results in driving to the airport 3 times a month and being away from home about 11 or 12 days a month. In my family, that works out satisfactorily and the three trips each month to the airport is fine with me.

Always interesting, how everyone has different preferences.

e38
 
Woodreau
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Re: Airlines that don't require their crews to overnight

Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:19 pm

My first airline had no overnights. All trips were day trips that started and ended in base a 6-12 hours later all the crews were based in the outstations in locations like:

Merced CA
Moab UT
Kingman AZ
Joplin MO
Columbia MO
Jonesboro AR
Dubois PA
Massena NY
Rutland VT
Lewisburg WV
Hagerstown MD
Garden City KS
Salina KS
Grand Island NE
Huron SD
Plattsburgh NY

It would be great if we all lived in those city’s. And just go home at the end of the day. But no one did. Instead all the crews were commuters and ended up paying for hotel rooms in these city’s out of pocket to be based there.

You couldn’t move to the base and live there because next month would come and everyone would be moved to another base.
Last edited by Woodreau on Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
 
TW870
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Re: Airlines that don't require their crews to overnight

Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:20 pm

e38 wrote:
Avgeek21 wrote:
I’d rather be home everyday than spend time away in hotels . . .Day trips all day every day...


Not for me; I do not like day trips! (well, once in a while is ok).

In my case, it is about a 45 - 60 minute drive to the airport from my home, and I don't want to do that frequently. (Yes, I know, many people commute to and from work much further than that and do it 20 or more days a month, but I prefer not to). At the company at which I work, flying day trips only would require about 12 - 13 days to fill a normal monthly schedule; i.e., 12 - 13 trips to the airport.

I think that is the benefit of a career with an airline--the flexibility to choose--and as you can see, everyone has different preferences.

With our monthly bid package (U.S. domestic network), the company builds everything from one day trips to five day trips.

I usually select trips that are 4 or 5 days long which results in driving to the airport 3 times a month and being away from home about 11 or 12 days a month. In my family, that works out satisfactorily and the three trips each month to the airport is fine with me.

Always interesting, how everyone has different preferences.

e38


Agreed! When I was a flight attendant, I hated day trips. All that time on the El in Chicago was worthless. Plus, because of cost of living issues, many crew members are commuters. Day trips do not work for most commuters because the employee - not the airline - is responsible for the hotel cost between trips.

The other thing to note is that unless unions and companies agreed on a satellite-basing model where every station had a pilot and flight attendant virtual or satellite base, the legacy carriers are going to have lots of overnights because of aircraft utilization. Airplanes come into the outstations around midnight and leave at 6am. That is not enough time to rest the crew. Because of the regularity of legacy schedules, you often see the morning crew get into the outstation around 3 o'clock, and then take out the RON very early the next morning. Meanwhile, the evening crew gets in at midnight, and then takes out the morning crew's plane about 4 o'clock the next day. This is less true at an Allegiant or a Spirit where you can do a lot of high time turns on once-a-day leisure routs. But the legacies are not set up for that.
 
departedflights
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Re: Airlines that don't require their crews to overnight

Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:46 pm

Avgeek21 wrote:
I’d rather be home everyday than spend time away in hotels. No matter how good they are and how ‘great’ a trip is. No thank you. Day trips all day every day...


I agree 100%.
Last edited by departedflights on Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The opinions are expressed are my own and do not represent those of anyone else, including my coworkers or my employer.
 
departedflights
Posts: 209
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Re: Airlines that don't require their crews to overnight

Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:47 pm

Delete. Duplicate post
The opinions are expressed are my own and do not represent those of anyone else, including my coworkers or my employer.
 
VMCA787
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Re: Airlines that don't require their crews to overnight

Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:56 pm

When I first started working for an airline as a commuter, it was max time, min days. That served me well throughout my career. Even when I lived in base, the fewer times I had to go to the airport the better it was for me. Generally, when I was flying domestic in the US I avoided one trips like the plague. It just wasn't worth it. As a commuter, if I could leave in the mid-afternoon and return on a red-eye, that was the best I could ever hope for. But the nice thing about my job was the schedule.
Fly fast, live slow!
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: Airlines that don't require their crews to overnight

Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:17 am

Avgeek21 wrote:
Flow2706 wrote:
As far as I know Ryanair and EasyJet don’t have scheduled overnights. Unfortunately, overnights have become relatively uncommon for short/medium haul flights with many airlines.


Make that fortunately. I’d rather be home everyday than spend time away in hotels. No matter how good they are and how ‘great’ a trip is. No thank you. Day trips all day every day...


I quite enjoy staying overnight in a hotel, even if it isn't the nicest. Typically I sleep like a baby, too.

Some layovers are more fun than others, of course, but the peace and quiet of a hotel stay has its attractions. Given the "quiet and dark" requirements of our crew hotels, I seldom find myself in a place where I can't sleep well.

Different strokes, which is good because it means trip requests aren't all to the same places. :D


seatback wrote:
It seems like it would be a double-edged sword. I can see a big part of the attraction, especially for FA is to travel the country/world. Day trips don't provide the same experience. I can also see people who want to fly but don't like being away from home.


You'd be surprised how many crew never leave the hotel room on layovers, except perhaps for a grocery run. So while they are indeed traveling, they aren't really seeing the world.

I'm the opposite. Always doing something if there is time, even if it is just a nice walk around the area. That's not to say I go "touristing" every time. If I know the destination pretty well, I might go to the movies, or sit down at a nice coffee shop with a book.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
e38
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Re: Airlines that don't require their crews to overnight

Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:45 am

Woodreau wrote:
You couldn’t move to the base and live there because next month would come and everyone would be moved to another base.


every month?

e38
 
FGITD
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Re: Airlines that don't require their crews to overnight

Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:45 am

Starlionblue wrote:
Avgeek21 wrote:
Flow2706 wrote:
As far as I know Ryanair and EasyJet don’t have scheduled overnights. Unfortunately, overnights have become relatively uncommon for short/medium haul flights with many airlines.


Make that fortunately. I’d rather be home everyday than spend time away in hotels. No matter how good they are and how ‘great’ a trip is. No thank you. Day trips all day every day...


I quite enjoy staying overnight in a hotel, even if it isn't the nicest. Typically I sleep like a baby, too.

Some layovers are more fun than others, of course, but the peace and quiet of a hotel stay has its attractions. Given the "quiet and dark" requirements of our crew hotels, I seldom find myself in a place where I can't sleep well.

Different strokes, which is good because it means trip requests aren't all to the same places. :D


seatback wrote:
It seems like it would be a double-edged sword. I can see a big part of the attraction, especially for FA is to travel the country/world. Day trips don't provide the same experience. I can also see people who want to fly but don't like being away from home.


You'd be surprised how many crew never leave the hotel room on layovers, except perhaps for a grocery run. So while they are indeed traveling, they aren't really seeing the world.

I'm the opposite. Always doing something if there is time, even if it is just a nice walk around the area. That's not to say I go "touristing" every time. If I know the destination pretty well, I might go to the movies, or sit down at a nice coffee shop with a book.



company used to have a captain who came through our station at least once a month. Told me one day a few weeks before his retirement that he was looking forward to coming back with his wife so that he could visit the city. All those years of premium hotel rooms in a specific downtown hotel.

As you say, different strokes. For some the job is literally to fly the plane, or they’ve been at it for so long that a quick 24 hour trip just isn’t worth being a tourist anymore
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Airlines that don't require their crews to overnight

Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:05 am

Starlionblue wrote:
Avgeek21 wrote:
Flow2706 wrote:
As far as I know Ryanair and EasyJet don’t have scheduled overnights. Unfortunately, overnights have become relatively uncommon for short/medium haul flights with many airlines.


Make that fortunately. I’d rather be home everyday than spend time away in hotels. No matter how good they are and how ‘great’ a trip is. No thank you. Day trips all day every day...


I quite enjoy staying overnight in a hotel, even if it isn't the nicest. Typically I sleep like a baby, too.

Some layovers are more fun than others, of course, but the peace and quiet of a hotel stay has its attractions. Given the "quiet and dark" requirements of our crew hotels, I seldom find myself in a place where I can't sleep well.

Different strokes, which is good because it means trip requests aren't all to the same places. :D


seatback wrote:
It seems like it would be a double-edged sword. I can see a big part of the attraction, especially for FA is to travel the country/world. Day trips don't provide the same experience. I can also see people who want to fly but don't like being away from home.


You'd be surprised how many crew never leave the hotel room on layovers, except perhaps for a grocery run. So while they are indeed traveling, they aren't really seeing the world.

I'm the opposite. Always doing something if there is time, even if it is just a nice walk around the area. That's not to say I go "touristing" every time. If I know the destination pretty well, I might go to the movies, or sit down at a nice coffee shop with a book.


Everywhere I flew, we were all about getting out and seeing or doing things. I must walked 15 miles around UHPP, Dakar we got a great tour, elephants, rhino and lions in Pilansberg, snorkeling in Palau, miles of walking around Beijing. Crew rest is to give the plane a break.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Airlines that don't require their crews to overnight

Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:46 am

Put me in the category with pilots who prefer overnight stops. Long trips to far off places are better. There are several reasons: the pay is better, I get to see the world, I like staying in nice hotels and I avoid the annoying 50-60 minute commute to/from the airport every day. I also earn a ton of bonus points at the hotels (and airlines, when I position) that I can use in my spare time. I also love warm weather, something northern Europe rarely offers.


Flow2706 wrote:
As far as I know Ryanair and EasyJet don’t have scheduled overnights. Unfortunately, overnights have become relatively uncommon for short/medium haul flights with many airlines.


They do have some overnights, but very few.

ULCCs in Europe generally avoid overnights paid by the company. They'd much rather put that cost on the crewmember.

Some cargo airlines have crew leaving every evening and returning every morning after a long night. Swift Air (the Spanish one) often run the crew only on one route, so from the pilots home base to the hub in the evening and back to the base in the morning.


e38 wrote:
Woodreau wrote:
You couldn’t move to the base and live there because next month would come and everyone would be moved to another base.


every month?

e38


I've been at a company that worked in a similar way. Every 6 months they would give you a new base. Major headache, because you can't rent an apartment for just 6 months. It meant a costly and lengthy commute every Monday and Friday halfway across Europe. AFAIK, EasyJet fired a lot of pilots and offered to rehire them on 6-month summer contracts in 2021 under a similar setup. There was no way the meager salary offered in that contract would ever cover the cost of accommodation.
 
Woodreau
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Re: Airlines that don't require their crews to overnight

Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:05 am

The airline didn’t purposely move people, but crew bases opened and closed all of the time depending on the EAS contracts that were awarded to the airline and so virtually all of the movements are due to base openings and closings.

As bases open, people voluntarily move their base there or if there aren’t enough takers someone would get displaced to the new base. When people move it causes openings. But when bases close, it causes something called a bump and flush, with the people in the base that is closing being relocated to where ever their seniority could hold.

Bases at my airline were small, each base only had 6 pilots, 3 captains and 3 first officers. So when a base closed. It caused a cascade movement.

In the 2 years I worked at my first airline, I had relocated through 10 different bases, So that meant on average I stayed in a base for only 2.5 months... definitely not long enough to obtain an apartment lease. Only 3 times did I voluntarily request to move. The first was to request my first base as a first officer, the second was to bid for captain upgrade and third was to request a base where I could be a captain that could hold a line schedule instead of being a reserve captain. The other 7 times I moved bases was because I was displaced from it during a bump and flush.

Displacements became an routine thing. So finish a day trip on Saturday. Then pack up everything in the car, stuff that didn’t fit in the car, i comatted at the station to ship it to my next base and drive after work on Saturday move to the new base and start flying out of the new base on Sunday. Pick up all of the stuff I comatted at the new base and started looking for a new place to live for the next month.
Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
 
e38
Posts: 821
Joined: Sun May 04, 2008 10:09 pm

Re: Airlines that don't require their crews to overnight

Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:36 pm

VSMUT and Woodreau, very interesting crew basing processes.

Thank you both for sharing.

e38
 
seatback
Topic Author
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Re: Airlines that don't require their crews to overnight

Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:25 pm

Do Silver crews overnight?

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