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Max Q
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Iran Air 747 Combi ?

Sun May 16, 2021 4:03 am

Interesting picture of this Classic 747 on the home page, unable to link


Not only does it have the rear freight door but it has passenger windows and a swing nose


Looks more like a Convertible ?


Just to make it more unique it has the wing to body fairing from the 400 series


Can anyone shed any more light on this aircraft?
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: Iran Air 747 Combi ?

Sun May 16, 2021 5:01 am

I believe it was an ex-Martinair Convertible registered PH-MCF.



Bought by IR in 2008 mainly for cargo. Fairly young at 33 years of age.
I FLY KLM+ALASKA+QATAR+MALAYSIA+AIRASIA+MALINDO
 
7673mech
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Re: Iran Air 747 Combi ?

Sun May 16, 2021 5:04 am

As stated it is a convertible. Convertibles had the swing nose and an optional side door also.
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: Iran Air 747 Combi ?

Sun May 16, 2021 5:29 am

Max Q wrote:
Interesting picture of this Classic 747 on the home page, unable to link


Not only does it have the rear freight door but it has passenger windows and a swing nose


Looks more like a Convertible ?


Just to make it more unique it has the wing to body fairing from the 400 series


Can anyone shed any more light on this aircraft?

Here is the pic:



To post pics from the database, you need to find the photo ID number (at the top of the page, and also in the URL). Then you use the photoid tags:

[photoid]6419235[/photoid]


You can also use the tags twoid or threeid to post two or three photos respectively, separating the ID number with commas:

[twoid]6138139,5857289[/twoid]
[threeid]6190451,6175993,4226009[/threeid]




V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
Max Q
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Re: Iran Air 747 Combi ?

Sun May 16, 2021 6:22 am

Very interesting, thanks for the additional photos, I don’t think many convertibles were made


Fascinating to look inside on these freighters and see overhead bins installed inside the swing nose itself


They were truly ‘ready for anything’ !


And unique I think to see one with a -400 wing to body fairing, I’ve only seen those on late model Classics before
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
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Re: Iran Air 747 Combi ?

Sun May 16, 2021 8:00 am

Max Q wrote:
Very interesting, thanks for the additional photos, I don’t think many convertibles were made


Fascinating to look inside on these freighters and see overhead bins installed inside the swing nose itself


They were truly ‘ready for anything’ !


And unique I think to see one with a -400 wing to body fairing, I’ve only seen those on late model Classics before


L/N 712 built in the late 1980s, a pretty late build 747 Classic.

Interesting aircraft though for sure.
 
unimproved
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Re: Iran Air 747 Combi ?

Sun May 16, 2021 11:35 am

Max Q wrote:
Very interesting, thanks for the additional photos, I don’t think many convertibles were made


Fascinating to look inside on these freighters and see overhead bins installed inside the swing nose itself


They were truly ‘ready for anything’ !


And unique I think to see one with a -400 wing to body fairing, I’ve only seen those on late model Classics before

They were really built for quick changing, IIRC 1 full day (in the purpose built MP hangar with seat storage next to the cargo door). Flew holiday charters in summer and cargo in winter.
 
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747classic
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Re: Iran Air 747 Combi ?

Tue May 18, 2021 7:14 am

I was surprised that (most of) the provisions for installation of the full pax configuration kit are still present, while the aircraft has been operated for the last 15+ years in the full cargo mode.
This will lower the max payload (highter OEW) and available volume (max 8 ft high), due the lowered ceiling with brackets for the Passenger Service Units (PSU) and bagage bins still installed.

EP-ICD, Lowered ceiling, restricting pallet height to 8 ft, note : gasper air ducts still present
Image

EP-ICD, Unique double purpose nose section, nose door with partly present lining of the full pax configuration, while in cargo mode.
Image

Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
Max Q
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Re: Iran Air 747 Combi ?

Wed May 19, 2021 2:11 am

Thanks for the additional photos and insight, this must be one of very few if not the only Classic operating in this configuration?

Perhaps Iran Air occasionally does convert it back for passenger use otherwise it does seem pointless to limit its freight potential as you describe
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
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Boeing757100
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Re: Iran Air 747 Combi ?

Wed May 19, 2021 2:47 pm

I never knew that 747-200Fs could have the hinge nose? Thought it was only the factory built 747-400Fs and 747-8Fs?
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Re: Iran Air 747 Combi ?

Wed May 19, 2021 8:10 pm

Boeing757100 wrote:
I never knew that 747-200Fs could have the hinge nose? Thought it was only the factory built 747-400Fs and 747-8Fs?

They were present from the start I believe. Here’s the second 747-200F a week after delivery with its nose open:



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It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
TUGMASTER
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Re: Iran Air 747 Combi ?

Wed May 19, 2021 8:41 pm

Remember seeing these every Saturday morning parked at LHR in the Cargo apron.
Early 80’s…..
 
Max Q
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Re: Iran Air 747 Combi ?

Wed May 19, 2021 11:59 pm

Boeing757100 wrote:
I never knew that 747-200Fs could have the hinge nose? Thought it was only the factory built 747-400Fs and 747-8Fs?



Yes,

In a previous thread there’s a discussion on the original Classic freighters, the first production examples actually had only the swing nose incorporated with no side door


These models were all modified later to include a side door and later production 200 freighters all came with nose and side doors as standard
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
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747classic
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Re: Iran Air 747 Combi ?

Thu May 20, 2021 6:17 am

Max Q wrote:
Boeing757100 wrote:
I never knew that 747-200Fs could have the hinge nose? Thought it was only the factory built 747-400Fs and 747-8Fs?



Yes,

In a previous thread there’s a discussion on the original Classic freighters, the first production examples actually had only the swing nose incorporated with no side door


These models were all modified later to include a side door and later production 200 freighters all came with nose and side doors as standard


The first 747-200F's and -200C's were built with only the (hinged) Nose Door.
After introducing the Side Cargo Door (SCD) at the Sabena 747-100combi, the SCD was an option on the -200F and -200C, later it was standard at the 747-200F.
At several early built aircraft the SCD was later added, but not with all aircraft without SCD.

See : viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1450431
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: Iran Air 747 Combi ?

Thu May 20, 2021 11:49 am

747classic wrote:
EP-ICD, Unique double purpose nose section, nose door with partly present lining of the full pax configuration, while in cargo mode.
Image


Is the nose door not used in this case, given the presence of the overhead baggage bins at the nose section?
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747classic
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Re: Iran Air 747 Combi ?

Thu May 20, 2021 12:40 pm

The nose door is in use (fully functional), but the provisions for installation of the passenger configuration (incl. fwd part of the ceiling incl PSU's and overhead bin lining) are not fully removed.
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
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DL_Mech
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Re: Iran Air 747 Combi ?

Sun May 23, 2021 9:03 am

I’ve always wondered if those forward pax windows ever went through any impact testing similar to cockpit windows. I assume that they are standard pax windows?

Also, are those yellow actuators some type of locking mechanism?

Image
Last edited by DL_Mech on Sun May 23, 2021 9:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.

Former AMT on A220,A310,A319/20/21,A330,A350,B707,B717,B727,B737,B747,B757,B767,B777,DC-9,DC-10,L-1011,
MD-80/90,MD-11
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: Iran Air 747 Combi ?

Sun May 23, 2021 9:07 am

DL_Mech wrote:
I’ve always wondered if those forward pax windows ever went through any impact testing similar to cockpit windows. I assume that they are standard pax windows?

Image


The angle is quite significant, to be fair. It isn't like you can see forward in any significant way. I imagine any large avian creature impacting would not have nearly as much of an impact (heh...) as one hitting the forward cockpit windows.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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747classic
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Re: Iran Air 747 Combi ?

Sun May 23, 2021 9:58 am

The picture of EP-ICD was taken during maintenance, but in active full cargo configuration, even a lot more of the ful pax lining was still in place (increasing the OEW), see below.

Martinair Sister ship 747-21AC, PH-MCE, HKG, Feb 1989
Image

Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
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747classic
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Re: Iran Air 747 Combi ?

Fri May 28, 2021 11:54 am

I found a production picture of the first ever built section 41 for a 747-200C (World Airways 747-273C)

Section 41 of L/N 209, Wichita, Jan 6 - 1973
Image

Credit : AW&ST Archives, see : https://aviationweek.com/air-transport/ ... 7f2053cde3

Aircraft data : B747-273C, L/N 209, c/n 20651, N747WA, F/F 73-03-23, Delivered 73-04-27, Basic number R4005, Variable number RJ131, World Airways
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
744lover
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Re: Iran Air 747 Combi ?

Fri May 28, 2021 4:31 pm

DL_Mech wrote:
I’ve always wondered if those forward pax windows ever went through any impact testing similar to cockpit windows. I assume that they are standard pax windows?

Also, are those yellow actuators some type of locking mechanism?

Image


They are the gears that turn the long screw you see and that push the nose up. Interestingly they are operated by a single electrical motor in the upper-center part of the nose. This motor has two flexible shafts, one to each of these yellow gears. Once the 16 locks are free, the motor engages and the gears start rotating the screw, therefore pushing the nose.

Here's a video description https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTXUtetGsfo

BR,
744lover
 
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DL_Mech
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Re: Iran Air 747 Combi ?

Fri May 28, 2021 5:20 pm

744lover wrote:


Interesting video.

Thanks!
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.

Former AMT on A220,A310,A319/20/21,A330,A350,B707,B717,B727,B737,B747,B757,B767,B777,DC-9,DC-10,L-1011,
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747classic
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Re: Iran Air 747 Combi ?

Sat May 29, 2021 8:55 am

Manual opening of the nose door is possible (powertool), but takes a very ......... long time.
A latch can be closed/opened manual, but some latches are hard to reach.
You may depart with one latch not closed, or one latch missing. (MMEL, ATA 52, see : https://fsims.faa.gov/wdocs/mmel/b-747-400_r28.pdf )
It maintained regulary, the system functions ok, only when one of the flexible shafts of the powerlift system fails (jammed), you are in deep trouble.
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.

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