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richcandy
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Cargo doors open inward or outward

Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:55 am

Hi

A few months ago I bought an aft cargo door from an Austrian 737-600. After looking at photos of the aircraft in service it became clear that the door opened inward. I had never thought about this before so was kind of surprised. Then last week I flew on a couple of British Airways 320's and their cargo doors open outwards. However at LHR on Saturday I saw a AA 777 (N768AA) It appeared to have two rear cargo doors with the larger opening outward and the smaller inward.

Ok so my questions are do all 320's have outward opening cargo doors and do all 737's have inward opening doors. Or is it more complicated than that? What about 330's, 350's, 787's, 747's etc?

N768AA looked to have both but is that standard? Do other passenger aircraft have some cargo doors that open inward and some outward?
I am guessing that outward opening doors create more space?

Thanks

Alex
 
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Leovinus
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Re: Cargo doors open inward or outward

Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:03 am

I can't give you a complete answer, far from it, but you're right in that outward opening doors permit more space inside being used for cargoes. I'm going to hazard a guess and say that the choice of inward or outward hinges (Hah) on pressurisation. Opening the cargo door inwards means pressurisation will keep it closed in flight. Outward opening mechanisms require very sturdy latching mechanisms to not blow out.

Then again you could theoretically built cargo doors to operate similar to the doors I suppose. Being slotted in place to make a plug type door while still opening outwards. Does any aircraft do this? Hmm...
 
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fr8mech
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Re: Cargo doors open inward or outward

Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:59 am

Leovinus wrote:

Then again you could theoretically built cargo doors to operate similar to the doors I suppose. Being slotted in place to make a plug type door while still opening outwards. Does any aircraft do this? Hmm...


The B757 lower cargo doors are plug doors that open outward.

I seem to recall the B727-2xx also had 2 doors that were plug but opened out.

I suspect there are others.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
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AirKevin
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Re: Cargo doors open inward or outward

Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:52 pm

The widebody jets have forward and aft cargo doors that open outwards and a bulk cargo door in the back that opens inwards. I can't think of a widebody jets that didn't have this configuration. As far as I know, the A320 can be container loaded depending on the options selected by the airline, and the 737 can't.
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DL_Mech
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Re: Cargo doors open inward or outward

Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:00 pm

fr8mech wrote:

I seem to recall the B727-2xx also had 2 doors that were plug but opened out.



The B727 and B757 had optional 3rd bulk cargo doors that opened inward. The Delta 727s had them but the Western 727s did not. The three cargo door 757s are pretty rare.

This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.

Former AMT on A220,A310,A319/20/21,A330,A350,B707,B717,B727,B737,B747,B757,B767,B777,DC-9,DC-10,L-1011,
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Wacker1000
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Re: Cargo doors open inward or outward

Mon Jun 07, 2021 2:45 pm

richcandy wrote:
Ok so my questions are do all 320's have outward opening cargo doors and do all 737's have inward opening doors.



A320F main cargo doors open out and bulk cargo door opens in. All 737 cargo doors open in.
 
AirbusSA1
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Re: Cargo doors open inward or outward

Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:26 pm

The A320 was designed to carry ULDs (Unit load device). So, an outward opening door gives more space to fit them in, as you can see in the picture below. If you closely observe a 737 with cargo doors open, you will see that the door once opened rests on top of the hold which takes away some room.

Image

The bulk cargo compartment door of the A320 opens inward and rests just as in the 737. The bulk is used by my airline to store crew luggage and stuff like that. It is not as spacious as the forward and aft cargo holds and certainly do not carter for ULDs.

The Dash 8 classics I flew also had an inward opening cargo door. It is a fully manual door. To open the door, you unlock it, which pushes it in. This opens the door a little, exposing a handle. All you had to do then was to simply use the handle to push it up and use the handle to lock the door to the door frame. Opening the cargo door if they are closed was a normal part of our walk around because we had to look out for worn out door seals.

Image

Interestingly, the main door of the Dash 8 opened outwards. In Airbus aircraft, all main doors open outwards as well.
 
Tristarsteve
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Re: Cargo doors open inward or outward

Mon Jun 07, 2021 6:26 pm

AirKevin wrote:
The widebody jets have forward and aft cargo doors that open outwards and a bulk cargo door in the back that opens inwards. I can't think of a widebody jets that didn't have this configuration. As far as I know, the A320 can be container loaded depending on the options selected by the airline, and the 737 can't.

The standard body Tristar was originally fitted with three cargo doors that all operated in the same way. They were plug type doors that opened outwards after being lifted. The bulk cargo door was identical in operation but smaller.
Some airlines followed British Airways in specifying the much larger fwd cargo door which opened outwards, so that the fwd hold could be used for cargo pallets.
This C1A door was 99pc identical to the B747-200 cargo door, and obviously aquired from the same supplier.
 
jrfspa320
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Re: Cargo doors open inward or outward

Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:06 am

The Fokker 100 had a customer choice whether the hold doors opened inward or outward!
 
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Horstroad
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Re: Cargo doors open inward or outward

Tue Jun 08, 2021 1:23 pm

Leovinus wrote:
Then again you could theoretically built cargo doors to operate similar to the doors I suppose. Being slotted in place to make a plug type door while still opening outwards. Does any aircraft do this? Hmm...

The B777 aft cargo door can be ordered in two variations. The large aft cargo door is basically the same as the forward lower cargo door, a non-plug type outward opening door. The small aft cargo door is comparable to the 757 and 767, an outward opening plug type door.


AirKevin wrote:
The widebody jets have forward and aft cargo doors that open outwards and a bulk cargo door in the back that opens inwards. I can't think of a widebody jets that didn't have this configuration.

The MD-11 has three outward opening non-plug type cargo doors. The aft cargo door (what other manufacturers would call the bulk cargo door) is basically the same design as the forward and center cargo doors, but much smaller. Complete with a vent door, electric motor, counterbalance cylinder, latch actuator, limit switches etc.
 
MeCe
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Re: Cargo doors open inward or outward

Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:51 pm

Difference is weight and cost.

A320 doors are mostly comparable like A330 doors. That requires complex latch mechanism, hydraulic power to open and close and needs much more maintenance. However B737 doors have simple deadlock like latch mechanism, and has a spring assisted counterweight mechanism. 737 lost some cargo space as others mentioned vs 320 complex door
 
Lukas757
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Re: Cargo doors open inward or outward

Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:47 pm

DL_Mech wrote:
The three cargo door 757s are pretty rare.


How can you access the bulk cargo hold on 757s without the bulk cargo door?
 
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DL_Mech
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Re: Cargo doors open inward or outward

Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:11 pm

Lukas757 wrote:
DL_Mech wrote:
The three cargo door 757s are pretty rare.


How can you access the bulk cargo hold on 757s without the bulk cargo door?


There is no bulkhead installed on a two door 757. I assume that a three door 757 has a soft bulkhead installed.
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.

Former AMT on A220,A310,A319/20/21,A330,A350,B707,B717,B727,B737,B747,B757,B767,B777,DC-9,DC-10,L-1011,
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fr8mech
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Re: Cargo doors open inward or outward

Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:47 pm

Lukas757 wrote:
How can you access the bulk cargo hold on 757s without the bulk cargo door?


Strange question. On any B757 I’ve been exposed to, the lower compartments are all bulk loaded. Yeah, I’ve seen some with a conveyor system, and some with a modular/nesting/telescoping loading system, but never a container system. Not that it doesn’t exist. If I’ve learned something in over 3 decades in the business, there are very few “always” & “never” when you’re talking options.

So, it’s all bulk.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
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Thrusty69
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Re: Cargo doors open inward or outward

Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:26 pm

I think what he meant is actual access. Whether or not there is a bulk cargo door, you can always gain access to that area from the aft cargo door. There is no actual partition. You are free to walk between the two areas.
 
TUGMASTER
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Re: Cargo doors open inward or outward

Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:11 pm

In 26 years of Handling in one way or another, all I can remember is that all the main cargo doors on wide body’s open outwards.
All bulk doors on widebodys open inwards.
Exception to this rule is the DC10/MD11.
And for the life of me, can’t remember the bulk door on a L1011 did..
 
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DL_Mech
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Re: Cargo doors open inward or outward

Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:11 am

TUGMASTER wrote:
And for the life of me, can’t remember the bulk door on a L1011 did..


Opened outwards.
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.

Former AMT on A220,A310,A319/20/21,A330,A350,B707,B717,B727,B737,B747,B757,B767,B777,DC-9,DC-10,L-1011,
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CrimsonNL
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Re: Cargo doors open inward or outward

Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:11 am

jrfspa320 wrote:
The Fokker 100 had a customer choice whether the hold doors opened inward or outward!


Are you sure there was an inward opening type? I can only remember two types of outward opening types.

One was a very narrow door that hinged on the bottom. It opened downwards. If you weren't careful when opening it, it would fall down very quickly under its own weight. I think there were some steel cables holding it somewhat in place when it was fully down. I always looked at these doors thinking they were going to fall off at any point. It was an ungainly design and not practical when loading manually.

The other door was much wider and opened upwards (like an A320 cargo door). They weren't too heavy to open, and there was a little push rod attached to each end in case you weren't tall enough to push it all the way up. A pretty good design, I found them very easy to operate.
Always comparing your flown types list with mine
 
extender
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Re: Cargo doors open inward or outward

Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:52 pm

TUGMASTER wrote:
In 26 years of Handling in one way or another, all I can remember is that all the main cargo doors on wide body’s open outwards.


Some Electras had the door that opened like a 767/DC-10/L-1011 pax door.
 
MEA-707
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Re: Cargo doors open inward or outward

Tue Jun 15, 2021 4:13 pm

extender wrote:
TUGMASTER wrote:
In 26 years of Handling in one way or another, all I can remember is that all the main cargo doors on wide body’s open outwards.


Some Electras had the door that opened like a 767/DC-10/L-1011 pax door.

I remember these from my Reeve Aleutian flights. It opened upward electrically (no manual power needed, mechanical) . I remembered the Saudi fire inside a Tristar in 1980 and I felt these doors being a bit claustrophobic compared to doors you can open manually ICE.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
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Horstroad
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Re: Cargo doors open inward or outward

Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:33 am

extender wrote:
TUGMASTER wrote:
In 26 years of Handling in one way or another, all I can remember is that all the main cargo doors on wide body’s open outwards.


Some Electras had the door that opened like a 767/DC-10/L-1011 pax door.

Where did theses doors go? On the main deck the pax doors disappear in the ceiling. But on the lower deck there's no ceiling for the doors to disappear in, as the main deck is just inches above the cargo compartment.
 
jrfspa320
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Re: Cargo doors open inward or outward

Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:19 am

CrimsonNL wrote:
jrfspa320 wrote:
The Fokker 100 had a customer choice whether the hold doors opened inward or outward!


Are you sure there was an inward opening type? I can only remember two types of outward opening types.

One was a very narrow door that hinged on the bottom. It opened downwards. If you weren't careful when opening it, it would fall down very quickly under its own weight. I think there were some steel cables holding it somewhat in place when it was fully down. I always looked at these doors thinking they were going to fall off at any point. It was an ungainly design and not practical when loading manually.

The other door was much wider and opened upwards (like an A320 cargo door). They weren't too heavy to open, and there was a little push rod attached to each end in case you weren't tall enough to push it all the way up. A pretty good design, I found them very easy to operate.


Yes, sorry, you are correct, i meant to say hinged bottom or top.
 
extender
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Re: Cargo doors open inward or outward

Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:41 am

Horstroad wrote:
Where did theses doors go? On the main deck the pax doors disappear in the ceiling. But on the lower deck there's no ceiling for the doors to disappear in, as the main deck is just inches above the cargo compartment.


Main deck, they roll up. A brief shot, go to the 0:32 mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ML_WpTCWzGQ
 
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Horstroad
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Re: Cargo doors open inward or outward

Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:46 pm

extender wrote:
Main deck

Thanks. I missed that detail.
 
Clydenairways
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Re: Cargo doors open inward or outward

Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:07 pm

707 and Dc8 and Dc9 had inward opening doors.
 
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DL_Mech
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Re: Cargo doors open inward or outward

Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:37 pm

Clydenairways wrote:
707 and Dc8 and Dc9 had inward opening doors.


727-100 as well.
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.

Former AMT on A220,A310,A319/20/21,A330,A350,B707,B717,B727,B737,B747,B757,B767,B777,DC-9,DC-10,L-1011,
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citationjet
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Re: Cargo doors open inward or outward

Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:35 pm

727-100 baggage doors open inward.
727-200 open outward.
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