Hi,
I'm the chief pilot for a 2006 Gulfstream G200 owned by a fairly large industrial company in the US. My boss, the CEO of the company, has recently asked me to figure out how to subcharter the jet out for an addition 200 hours per year (we currently fly about 350 hours per year so he wants to try and reduce overheads). Correct me if I'm wrong (it has been known to happen at times), but I know I'll need to contact an aircraft management company of some description to make this happen, I was wondering if anyone here knew of the best one to contact or a directory of such management companies?
If I've left anything out, please feel free to tell me (I'd rather look like an idiot here than lose my job if you know what I'm saying). Thanks for all you help!
Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
-
- GalaxyFlyer
- Posts: 9430
- Joined:
Re: Private Jet Subcharter
I don’t have a directory but EJM (NetJets subsidiary); Solairus (San Francisco, I believe); Jet Avistion are big names, but there are many smaller ones. Your operation will have to go on a Part 135 certificate with all that involves including training programs for crews. If you’re on salary, ask for a raise because you’ll be flying that much more.
-
- DerAnzugMann
- Posts: 5
- Joined:
Re: Private Jet Subcharter
That's so strange! I'm also a G200 pilot and my boss (the head of an industrial company in UK) has just asked me to do the same! Much like you I have no clue how to do this beyond contacting an aircraft management company - all of whom seem rather sleazy if I might add - would anyone happen to know of the best British one? Thanks a ton in advance!
-
- GalaxyFlyer
- Posts: 9430
- Joined:
Re: Private Jet Subcharter
In the US, the ones I mentioned are about the best, but chartering out a private jet has lots of downsides—beware.
-
- Florianopolis
- Posts: 378
- Joined:
Re: Private Jet Subcharter
GalaxyFlyer wrote:In the US, the ones I mentioned are about the best, but chartering out a private jet has lots of downsides—beware.
Out of curiosity, what sort of downsides? More than the jet potentially being unavailable because it's scheduled somewhere else?
-
- GalaxyFlyer
- Posts: 9430
- Joined:
Re: Private Jet Subcharter
Charter customers are much less likely to treat the plane as nicely as the owners. Availability could be a problem, as charter use may interfere with owner use and maintenance scheduling. Crews and maintenance has to meet the management company’s 135 plan. Crews need six-month checks. For the crews, who are on salary, now will be flying twice as much. Their can be some legal and insurance ramifications, too. The ones I listed are very compliant, others maybe less so. In south Florida, it’s called 134.5.
Some owners put the plane on a certificate for tax reasons, charter out only to known customers, often close friends.
Mostly, it becomes miserable for the crews and, potentially, for the owners. If cost of ownership is an issue, perhaps owning isn’t for you.
Some owners put the plane on a certificate for tax reasons, charter out only to known customers, often close friends.
Mostly, it becomes miserable for the crews and, potentially, for the owners. If cost of ownership is an issue, perhaps owning isn’t for you.
-
- Florianopolis
- Posts: 378
- Joined:
Re: Private Jet Subcharter
Thanks, that makes sense. It's more than just go uber the airplane for the weekend. You change the entire nature of your operation.
-
- FlapOperator
- Posts: 925
- Joined:
Re: Private Jet Subcharter
I'd be warming up my resume if a company I was working for was looking to save money on the jet by whoring it out on 135. That has been the first hint that an airplane is on the chopping block in the 91 world more times than I can count.
Getting it on 135 isn't usually a quick process. First, you'll need to find a 135 operation that wants it, THEN, pay the money for maintenance conformance, 135 training/check rides for crews, potential proving runs, etc. All the while, the COO/CEO is thinking there is some big money in the charter business, when the reality is that its spectacularly and famously low yield and high cost.
All of this for a fractional gain, and potential insurance increases, increased maintenance and support costs, wear and tear, company liability, etc.
My guess is some 135 operator or Fractional ownership sales guy got to your boss while you weren't looking and whispered in his ear.
My guess is also your airplane is as good as sold.
Getting it on 135 isn't usually a quick process. First, you'll need to find a 135 operation that wants it, THEN, pay the money for maintenance conformance, 135 training/check rides for crews, potential proving runs, etc. All the while, the COO/CEO is thinking there is some big money in the charter business, when the reality is that its spectacularly and famously low yield and high cost.
All of this for a fractional gain, and potential insurance increases, increased maintenance and support costs, wear and tear, company liability, etc.
My guess is some 135 operator or Fractional ownership sales guy got to your boss while you weren't looking and whispered in his ear.
My guess is also your airplane is as good as sold.
-
- DerAnzugMann
- Posts: 5
- Joined:
Re: Private Jet Subcharter
Personally, I'm not too worried if my boss sells the jet under my nose (my boss is looking to subcharter his jet in the UK, if anyone can help with my above question). Knowing him and his views on fractional ownership companies (he used to do that until one of them ripped him off by making him pay three months of fees), if does sell the G200, he'll probably get something newer like a G280 or one of the Embraer Praetor/Legacy jets.
-
- IAHObserver
- Posts: 28
- Joined:
Re: Private Jet Subcharter
G200Pilot123 wrote:Hi,
I'm the chief pilot for a 2006 Gulfstream G200 owned by a fairly large industrial company in the US. My boss, the CEO of the company, has recently asked me to figure out how to subcharter the jet out for an addition 200 hours per year (we currently fly about 350 hours per year so he wants to try and reduce overheads). Correct me if I'm wrong (it has been known to happen at times), but I know I'll need to contact an aircraft management company of some description to make this happen, I was wondering if anyone here knew of the best one to contact or a directory of such management companies?
If I've left anything out, please feel free to tell me (I'd rather look like an idiot here than lose my job if you know what I'm saying). Thanks for all you help!
I'm a little surprised in your position as "Chief Pilot" you have not been inundated by aircraft management companies offering to help you do just that, have you been flying very long?
-
- DerAnzugMann
- Posts: 5
- Joined:
Re: Private Jet Subcharter
About 18 months, I started a little before COVID hit the UK and due to how my boss is, ownership of the jet is hidden through about eight shell companies, so that's probably why no one has contacted us - they simply don't know who owns the jet in any regard!
-
- GalaxyFlyer
- Posts: 9430
- Joined:
Re: Private Jet Subcharter
A very senior operations officer at Net Jets was “stolen “ to take over GE’s (USA) large flight department at a very high salary. Shortly, he was back at NTT and the GE’s department closed, planes sold and NTT now does GE’s corporate air transport. Beware of Greeks and all that.
-
- DerAnzugMann
- Posts: 5
- Joined:
Re: Private Jet Subcharter
DerAnzugMann wrote:That's so strange! I'm also a G200 pilot and my boss (the head of an industrial company in UK) has just asked me to do the same! Much like you I have no clue how to do this beyond contacting an aircraft management company - all of whom seem rather sleazy if I might add - would anyone happen to know of the best British one? Thanks a ton in advance!
Regardless of the points mentioned before (they're valid, granted, but I'm too worried given who my boss is), would anyone happen to be able to help me with my before mentioned query?
Re: Private Jet Subcharter
One common tactic of a management company trying to drum up charter revenue is to convince the aircraft owner that putting his plane on their certificate will not only offset the fixed operating costs but will actually make him a profit. This is always wrong. No one makes money owning a private jet.
Re: Private Jet Subcharter
Charter Manage is a horrible idea if your owner respects the pilots and cares about having a nice clean airplane when he wants to use it. The plane and pilots will have to be employed by the charter firm and the plane moved to it's 135 certificate. It's going to be flown for the full time requested and probably pushed to fly it more. The pilots will be treated like their idiots and pressured into illegal operations to suit the charter firm.
-
- G200Pilot123
- Posts: 5
- Joined:
Re: Private Jet Subcharter
DerAnzugMann wrote:DerAnzugMann wrote:That's so strange! I'm also a G200 pilot and my boss (the head of an industrial company in UK) has just asked me to do the same! Much like you I have no clue how to do this beyond contacting an aircraft management company - all of whom seem rather sleazy if I might add - would anyone happen to know of the best British one? Thanks a ton in advance!
Regardless of the points mentioned before (they're valid, granted, but I'm too worried given who my boss is), would anyone happen to be able to help me with my before mentioned query?
Thanks for all your help guys, both my boss and I understand the dangers of chartering out our jet. We're not worried given previous experiences with things like this, but we'll keep it in mind
@DerAnzugMann, personally I don't know, maybe someone on the forum can answer it for you? Have you tried opening up another thread about UK subcharter operations?
As I'm in the US (and didn't really know too much about it anyway), I can't really help you.
Best of luck!
Re: Private Jet Subcharter
Here in the UK our travel company has two private jet suppliers we use for clients. Air Partner and Air Charter Services.
I presume these are some kind of broker who then in turn source available jets from individual corporate owners.
So an initial contact with AP and ACS should help.
I presume these are some kind of broker who then in turn source available jets from individual corporate owners.
So an initial contact with AP and ACS should help.
Re: Private Jet Subcharter
G200pilot123 I am the aviation director for a 91 plane on a seperate 135. I am happy to answer your questions years of experience with all of them good and bad. send me email.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests