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HAWK21M
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BAC R15-FV (BRILES) rivets

Sun Aug 15, 2021 11:30 am

Are the BAC R15-FV (BRILES) RIVETS shaved off the top post installation or left in the same way post installation.
Last edited by SQ22 on Fri Aug 20, 2021 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: All caps
 
extender
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Re: BAC R15-FV (BRILES) RIVETS

Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:31 am

We leave them as shot.
 
gregorygoodwin
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Re: BAC R15-FV (BRILES) RIVETS

Mon Aug 16, 2021 1:46 pm

You don't shave the briles type rivets after installation. If done correctly, they have a domed appearance that is slightly higher than the surrounding surface. This is normal for these rivets. Another type of rivet not normally shaved is the NAS1097 type. It is a countersunk style rivet that is usually used in shear applications as it has a reduced countersunk head. It is, like the brile rivet, designed for use in thin material where a deep countersink would be a problem. Interestingly, the brile fv (shear type) and fz (tension type) rivets are installed dry or without sealant unless directed by the specific repair instructions.The brile countersunk style rivets also require a specific type of countersink cutter, one type for the shear style rivets and another for the tension style rivets.The usual one hundred degree countersink cutter will not work for these rivets.

Gregory
 
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HAWK21M
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Re: BAC R15-FV (BRILES) RIVETS

Tue Aug 17, 2021 8:59 pm

gregorygoodwin wrote:
You don't shave the briles type rivets after installation. If done correctly, they have a domed appearance that is slightly higher than the surrounding surface. This is normal for these rivets.

Gregory

Won't that add drag & staining over time
 
gregorygoodwin
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Re: BAC R15-FV (BRILES) RIVETS

Wed Aug 18, 2021 8:26 pm

The amount of rise above the surrounding surface for a correctly installed briles rivet is only in the area of maybe two to four thousandths of an inch. The crown of the rivet is a smooth domed shaped that is probably negligible in drag. Also, if you ever look closely at a MD10 or MD11, the production fasteners on the plane have a slightly domed appearance. These were called DAC pins for Douglas Aircraft Company pin. They are similar to a Hi-lok fastener and were used only on the production line as they weren't considered a repair fastener. As for the staining or "smoking" fasteners, the brile rivets seem to have less of this than the standard type fasteners such as a MS20426 or NAS1097 (both countersunk type rivets). The worst fastener type for this is blind rivets such as Cherrry or Huck rivets. Another interesting FYI item is that the Boeing SRM's state that you can not substitute a MS20426 or NAS1097 type rivet in place of a brile rivet. This goes for the countersunk rivets only. You can replace a brile protruding style rivet (FT) with a MS20470 protruding style. Because of this stipulation, you often see repair doublers on the Boeing ships with protruding head rivets in them. This is because the shop doing the repair probably didn't have the unique countersink cutters for the brile rivet, so they shot on the repair with protruding rivets that they did have. This is acceptable, but the SRMs will state that you will probably incur a performance decay for using these fasteners in your repair if in a aerodynamically critical area.

Gregory
 
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HAWK21M
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Re: BAC R15-FV (BRILES) RIVETS

Fri Aug 20, 2021 11:43 am

gregorygoodwin wrote:
The amount of rise above the surrounding surface for a correctly installed briles rivet is only in the area of maybe two to four thousandths of an inch. The crown of the rivet is a smooth domed shaped that is probably negligible in drag. Also, if you ever look closely at a MD10 or MD11, the production fasteners on the plane have a slightly domed appearance. These were called DAC pins for Douglas Aircraft Company pin. They are similar to a Hi-lok fastener and were used only on the production line as they weren't considered a repair fastener. As for the staining or "smoking" fasteners, the brile rivets seem to have less of this than the standard type fasteners such as a MS20426 or NAS1097 (both countersunk type rivets). The worst fastener type for this is blind rivets such as Cherrry or Huck rivets. Another interesting FYI item is that the Boeing SRM's state that you can not substitute a MS20426 or NAS1097 type rivet in place of a brile rivet. This goes for the countersunk rivets only. You can replace a brile protruding style rivet (FT) with a MS20470 protruding style. Because of this stipulation, you often see repair doublers on the Boeing ships with protruding head rivets in them. This is because the shop doing the repair probably didn't have the unique countersink cutters for the brile rivet, so they shot on the repair with protruding rivets that they did have. This is acceptable, but the SRMs will state that you will probably incur a performance decay for using these fasteners in your repair if in a aerodynamically critical area.

Gregory

Much Appreciate the Educational content.
Thanks a lot.

Just a query...Remember the HS748 the External skin had a lot of Round head riviets.... Whats your take on that....Were Countersunk Rivets not available at that time.
 
gregorygoodwin
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Re: BAC R15-FV (BRILES) rivets

Sat Aug 21, 2021 10:47 pm

Honestly, I can't answer your query. I'm not familiar with this aircraft or what its intended mission was. At the time it was built, it was common to see non-flush fasteners on aircraft. For example, you see a lot of protruding head rivets on DC-3s and B-17s and many other ships of this era. My best estimation is that it was easier and less cost to go with a non-flush fastener. Round head rivets are very rare in commercial aircraft today, I've never come across them in my career in aircraft structures, although they seem to still be made.
I again thank you for your interest in structures maintenance and if you have any other questions, I hope to be able to provide some insight.

Gregory
 
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HAWK21M
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Re: BAC R15-FV (BRILES) rivets

Tue Aug 24, 2021 12:16 pm

gregorygoodwin wrote:
I again thank you for your interest in structures maintenance and if you have any other questions, I hope to be able to provide some insight.

Gregory

Much Appreciated your Educational advice.
Thanks

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