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convair880mfan
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Did the DC-8 and DC-10 have the largest passenger windows of all commercial jetliners?

Tue Aug 17, 2021 5:05 pm

I liked the big passenger windows on the DC-10. Am not sure they were very safe since there was an accident where one was lost and a passenger was sucked out the window. Was that National Airlines flight 27 in 1973? I wonder if that poor individual would have survived if he had been sitting next to a smaller L-1011 window. Perhaps the laws of physics would have spelled disaster even if the window was a bit smaller.

Never got to fly on the DC-8 but it appears to have had large almost squarish passenger windows. Largest windows on a commercial jetliner?

RIP the poor soul who lost his life because of the decompression and defenestration. Prayers for him and his family!
 
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dennypayne
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Re: Did the DC-8 and DC-10 have the largest passenger windows of all commercial jetliners?

Wed Aug 18, 2021 2:11 am

787 windows are quite a bit larger than any of those.
 
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LyleLanley
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Re: Did the DC-8 and DC-10 have the largest passenger windows of all commercial jetliners?

Wed Aug 18, 2021 2:31 am

The laws of physics are pretty tough to overcome when a fan blade separates due to flight crew error, small window or not. The bigger problem than the window (no pun intended) is the pressure differential. Seat belt or not, they’re not going to stay in.
 
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DL_Mech
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Re: Did the DC-8 and DC-10 have the largest passenger windows of all commercial jetliners?

Wed Aug 18, 2021 4:03 am

Although not technically a jetliner, Lockheed Electra?



vs. DC-8

Image

From: https://www.aircraftinteriorsinternatio ... ecor_2.jpg

vs. 787

Image

From: https://thepointsguy.global.ssl.fastly. ... -pairs.jpg
 
ZKNCI
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Re: Did the DC-8 and DC-10 have the largest passenger windows of all commercial jetliners?

Wed Aug 18, 2021 5:31 am

DL_Mech wrote:
Although not technically a jetliner, Lockheed Electra?



If we're adding in turboprops (or jetprops), then surely nothing beats the Viscount for cabin window size?
 
DH106
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Re: Did the DC-8 and DC-10 have the largest passenger windows of all commercial jetliners?

Wed Aug 18, 2021 5:39 am

Agreed - definitely the Vickers Viscount takes the prize here.
Obviously pressurisation loads were less as the ceiling was lower, allowing these wonderfully large windows.

https://twitter.com/ASobester/status/1021802552772452352/photo/1
 
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eta unknown
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Re: Did the DC-8 and DC-10 have the largest passenger windows of all commercial jetliners?

Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:25 pm

Getting back to jets... What about the comet or caravelle?
 
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WesternDC6B
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Re: Did the DC-8 and DC-10 have the largest passenger windows of all commercial jetliners?

Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:30 pm

eta unknown wrote:
Getting back to jets... What about the comet or caravelle?


I've wondered about those rounded-triangle shapes for the Caravelle windows and some of the early business jets. Something to do with metal fatigue?
 
DeltaMD95
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Re: Did the DC-8 and DC-10 have the largest passenger windows of all commercial jetliners?

Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:56 pm

convair880mfan wrote:
I liked the big passenger windows on the DC-10. Am not sure they were very safe since there was an accident where one was lost and a passenger was sucked out the window. Was that National Airlines flight 27 in 1973? I wonder if that poor individual would have survived if he had been sitting next to a smaller L-1011 window. Perhaps the laws of physics would have spelled disaster even if the window was a bit smaller.


I disagree that the DC-10 window size was a safety issue. The more recent WN 737 incident of nearly identical circumstance shows that a smaller window probably wouldn’t have made a difference in the survival - sucked out or not.
 
Flanker7
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Re: Did the DC-8 and DC-10 have the largest passenger windows of all commercial jetliners?

Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:04 pm

MD 11 had pretty big windows
 
N1120A
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Re: Did the DC-8 and DC-10 have the largest passenger windows of all commercial jetliners?

Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:13 pm

Southwest 1380 showed that window size really doesn't make a difference there. My guess is that a window failure on a CRJ-200 wouldn't even be survivable in that situation.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Did the DC-8 and DC-10 have the largest passenger windows of all commercial jetliners?

Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:14 am

Flanker7 wrote:
MD 11 had pretty big windows


Pretty sure they are exactly as big as the DC-10
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: Did the DC-8 and DC-10 have the largest passenger windows of all commercial jetliners?

Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:35 am

N1120A wrote:
Southwest 1380 showed that window size really doesn't make a difference there. My guess is that a window failure on a CRJ-200 wouldn't even be survivable in that situation.


It depends. In those other cases, it was more than just the window that failed. You had a much larger area to contend with.

But if it is a CRJ and it is just the window, yes, that would be easily survivable. Keep in mind a household vacuum cleaner generates more suction differential than from sea level to space. If you put your hand over that, you are obviously not getting sucked through. A CR2 widow is pretty small, and if that were the extent of the failure, you could cover it with an iPad an be fine.
 
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SAAFNAV
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Re: Did the DC-8 and DC-10 have the largest passenger windows of all commercial jetliners?

Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:55 am

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
N1120A wrote:
Keep in mind a household vacuum cleaner generates more suction differential than from sea level to space. If you put your hand over that, you are obviously not getting sucked through. A CR2 widow is pretty small, and if that were the extent of the failure, you could cover it with an iPad an be fine.


Considering sea-level pressure of 14.7 psi, and a good vacuum cleaner that pulls about 80% vacuum gives you ~12 psi or a suction differential of ~3 psi.
Considering the FAI definition of space at the Karman line where the pressure is 4.6×10−6 psi, giving you a pressure differential of pretty much 14.7 psi, I'd there's a pretty big difference between space and a vacuum cleaner.
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: Did the DC-8 and DC-10 have the largest passenger windows of all commercial jetliners?

Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:03 am

SAAFNAV wrote:
DarkSnowyNight wrote:
N1120A wrote:
Keep in mind a household vacuum cleaner generates more suction differential than from sea level to space. If you put your hand over that, you are obviously not getting sucked through. A CR2 widow is pretty small, and if that were the extent of the failure, you could cover it with an iPad an be fine.


Considering sea-level pressure of 14.7 psi, and a good vacuum cleaner that pulls about 80% vacuum gives you ~12 psi or a suction differential of ~3 psi.
Considering the FAI definition of space at the Karman line where the pressure is 4.6×10−6 psi, giving you a pressure differential of pretty much 14.7 psi, I'd there's a pretty big difference between space and a vacuum cleaner.



Premise is flawed. Deeply, as it ignores completely the non-linear progression of the values involved.

The difference between a typical vacuum cleaner at 25-90 kPa & sea level at 101 is nowhere near enough to change anything said. Add to that that it would not be the 14.7 of sea level, but the 10.9psi/75kPa of 8,000 pressure alt, and I was very obviously right the first time. CR2 windows are very small, so you could cover such a hole with a stiff enough object.

People do not get sucked of windows; that is fiction and if it were true, the area around the outflow valve would look like a junkyard after every flight. People get pulled out when the area of the hole gets large enough that even the same pressure differential moves everything out with it. However even that makes the assumption that you do not run out of air too fast, a la Aloha 243. Simply use the difference between a garden hose discharge of ~40 - 60 psi, versus a lower pressure, higher volume thing like a cataract. Which is more likely to move a raft?
 
DFW17L
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Re: Did the DC-8 and DC-10 have the largest passenger windows of all commercial jetliners?

Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:18 pm

The view of the English countryside from a Viscount window must have been marvelous.

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