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convair880mfan
Topic Author
Posts: 224
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:33 am

Do commercial pilots still carry bags with maps and charts given flight deck automation.

Thu Aug 19, 2021 12:49 am

I seem to remember that in the "good old days" pilots carried these heavy bags that had maps, STAR and SID charts and so on. Now that so much about flying is automated and available to pilots from onboard information systems, do commercial pilots still carry these? They looked pretty heavy back in the day.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Do commercial pilots still carry bags with maps and charts given flight deck automation.

Thu Aug 19, 2021 1:22 am

I think everybody has moved to iPads or other tablets. We did in corporate aviation 6-7 years ago.
 
Max Q
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Re: Do commercial pilots still carry bags with maps and charts given flight deck automation.

Sat Aug 21, 2021 5:19 am

Our flight bags in those days were very heavy, and the endless manual revisions were not much fun either!
 
arcticcruiser
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Re: Do commercial pilots still carry bags with maps and charts given flight deck automation.

Sat Aug 21, 2021 6:12 pm

[*]
Max Q wrote:
Our flight bags in those days were very heavy, and the endless manual revisions were not much fun either!


Don´t miss the paper revision work, but at least you potentially noticed some of the changes. Harder with the electronic versions, some of which have a slow and cumbersome process. Still carrying the old flight bag and somehow still need all the space!
 
Snuffaluffagus
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Re: Do commercial pilots still carry bags with maps and charts given flight deck automation.

Sun Aug 22, 2021 4:03 am

iPad only at my carrier. At my first regional, I had to carry three Jepp binders and a flight ops manual. I'd always do the jepp revisions in flight so at least I got paid to do it instead of in a hotel room or crew room after my commute. No more having to run through the terminal to my commute flight leaving in 20 minutes with a 30 pound flight case swinging away on my rollaboard. Still have to run for my commute though...
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Do commercial pilots still carry bags with maps and charts given flight deck automation.

Sun Aug 22, 2021 4:45 pm

Snuffaluffagus wrote:
iPad only at my carrier. At my first regional, I had to carry three Jepp binders and a flight ops manual. I'd always do the jepp revisions in flight so at least I got paid to do it instead of in a hotel room or crew room after my commute. No more having to run through the terminal to my commute flight leaving in 20 minutes with a 30 pound flight case swinging away on my rollaboard. Still have to run for my commute though...


I had 6 full world Jepp sets, runways greater than 4,000’. I think it was 15 or 16 binders. Crews printed out charts for the planned trip or we had to take the binders. When we went to iPads, the cabinet had probably 60 leather binders empty. It’s take hours to keep them current.
 
thepinkmachine
Posts: 464
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:43 pm

Re: Do commercial pilots still carry bags with maps and charts given flight deck automation.

Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:57 pm

arcticcruiser wrote:
[*]
Max Q wrote:
Our flight bags in those days were very heavy, and the endless manual revisions were not much fun either!


Don´t miss the paper revision work, but at least you potentially noticed some of the changes. Harder with the electronic versions, some of which have a slow and cumbersome process. Still carrying the old flight bag and somehow still need all the space!



Hear hear! Not only the paper manual revisions let you keep familiar with the changes, but also discouraged the management form making changes too frequently…

Nowadays we can have an OM change every other week…
 
Woodreau
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Re: Do commercial pilots still carry bags with maps and charts given flight deck automation.

Sun Aug 22, 2021 11:34 pm

We still carry charts and maps but it’s now in the form of a tablet weighing less than 1.5lbs and not paper weighing 40-50lbs

If you fly an approach you still have to reference the chart. If it’s in your FMS database but the approach is not in your tablet you’re not allowed to fly it.

You still have to verify the flight plan in the flight management system with the chart.

Nothing changed when the industry switched from paper to electronic tablet other than you are referring to an tablet instead of a paper chart.

As much as you think the plane is automated and wonderful, they’re quite dumb. If you tell it to fly all the way around the world, the plane will do it and won’t even stop to think that you don’t have enough fuel to do it. It will keep flying until it runs out of fuel and try to maintain the last captured altitude with fuel starved engines until it stalls or the protection laws kick in and force it to descend. It can’t deploy flaps and can’t lower the landing gear. It can’t even start an autoland approach unless a pilot tells it to.
 
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CarlosSi
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Re: Do commercial pilots still carry bags with maps and charts given flight deck automation.

Tue Aug 24, 2021 1:42 am

It wasn't that long ago that airlines switched to iPads, wasn't it? I remember a Delta video about the switch in recent history.
 
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Starlionblue
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Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

Re: Do commercial pilots still carry bags with maps and charts given flight deck automation.

Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:10 am

CarlosSi wrote:
It wasn't that long ago that airlines switched to iPads, wasn't it? I remember a Delta video about the switch in recent history.


It depends on the airline. We changed a few years ago.

We didn't carry all the charts and manuals with us, however. They were stored in the aircraft. All we got at dispatch was a mini-folder with only the relevant charts for the routes to be flown in that duty cycle.
 
Woodreau
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Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 6:44 am

Re: Do commercial pilots still carry bags with maps and charts given flight deck automation.

Tue Aug 24, 2021 12:19 pm

CarlosSi wrote:
It wasn't that long ago that airlines switched to iPads, wasn't it? I remember a Delta video about the switch in recent history.

Delta switched from paper to Microsoft surface tablets. Then to iPads.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Do commercial pilots still carry bags with maps and charts given flight deck automation.

Tue Aug 24, 2021 1:54 pm

Our bizjets also have dual file servers, so charts are displayed on one of the screens including “own ship” position. Dual so there’s a backup. I doubt any of us have used the iPads in the cockpit in years.
 
FlapOperator
Posts: 306
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:07 pm

Re: Do commercial pilots still carry bags with maps and charts given flight deck automation.

Wed Aug 25, 2021 6:04 am

I've done both, and the switch away from the bag full of phone books to one iPad with immensely more utility (weather apps for one) is a large and generally unsung advancement in aviation safety.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26859
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

Re: Do commercial pilots still carry bags with maps and charts given flight deck automation.

Wed Aug 25, 2021 7:01 pm

FlapOperator wrote:
I've done both, and the switch away from the bag full of phone books to one iPad with immensely more utility (weather apps for one) is a large and generally unsung advancement in aviation safety.


Not only aviation safety, but workplace safety. The savings in worker's compensation alone more than paid for the hardware, software and certification of EFBs. It was just a no brainer.
 
bigb
Posts: 1450
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:30 pm

Re: Do commercial pilots still carry bags with maps and charts given flight deck automation.

Wed Aug 25, 2021 8:26 pm

We are IPADs only with paper flight releases, paper weight and balance, and paper logbooks.

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