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trent768
Topic Author
Posts: 209
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 5:32 pm

Question about cockpit audio warning

Mon Aug 30, 2021 12:36 pm

I was watching some windshear videos on YouTube and then I started thinking: would additional audio warning be helpful in reducing pilot error or just pilot load in general?

Let say that a pilot lower their flaps to 15, then there's a "FLAP DOWN 15" audio warning just to remind the pilot that the flap was at 15. Another example would includes the runway awareness system, so if the system detects that the aircraft is on an active runway and the flap setting is wrong or even not extended at all, then a "CHECK FLAP SETTINGS" warning will be set off.

Last example, let's say that there's a fire on one of the engines. Instead of a loud ringing sound, where the pilot must check the display to see which one is on fire, why not tell them directly by screaming something like "ENGINE 1 FIRE! ENGINE 1 FIRE".

In my opinion, this would save those precious seconds that were usually spent on looking on the PFD. Do you think that'll improve safety? Thanks!
 
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DL_Mech
Posts: 2714
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 7:48 am

Re: Question about cockpit audio warning

Mon Aug 30, 2021 2:12 pm

Bitchin’ Betty in the MD-80 definitely covers your engine fire warnings.

http://youtu.be/5cnoAjFfkb0
 
bradyj23
Posts: 115
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:24 am

Re: Question about cockpit audio warning

Mon Aug 30, 2021 2:26 pm

EGPWS also has flap warnings. “Too Low Flaps”
 
VMCA787
Posts: 255
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:31 pm

Re: Question about cockpit audio warning

Mon Aug 30, 2021 3:01 pm

There is also the takeoff config warning and many more. To be honest, I don't think it would help at all, in fact, it is very distracting.
 
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Horstroad
Posts: 597
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:19 pm

Re: Question about cockpit audio warning

Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:28 pm

The MD-11 (and probably other MDs as well) is quite talkative. The possible aural warnings are as follows:

Bell
Clacker
Horn
C-Chord
Warbler
1.2, 1.5, 2.9, 7.8 kHz
Chime
Advisory Tone
Abnormal Tone
Emergency Tone
"Engine 1 Fire"
"Engine 2 Fire"
"Engine 3 Fire"
"Headwind Shear"
"Tailwind Shear"
"Altitude"
"Slats Overspeed"
"Overspeed"
"Landing Gear"
"Too Low Gear"
"Brakes"
"Flaps" ("Flllllllaps")
"Slats"
"Spoilers"
"Auto Spoiler"
"Stabilizer"
"Minimums"
"Approaching Minimums"
"2500" - "10"
"Autopilot"
"Stabilizer Motion"
"Cabin Altitude"
"Tire Failure"



For Comparison the B777 is capable of following aurals:

Caution
Chord
Clacker
Fire Bell
High Chime
Low Chime
Hi/Lo Chime
Siren
Test Tone
Wailer



all in addition to EGPWS and TCAS of course
 
Woodreau
Posts: 2156
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 6:44 am

Re: Question about cockpit audio warning

Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:32 pm

If the plane annunciate your flap setting every time you changed it you’ll eventually tune it out and never hear it

Especially on an EMB-145. The plane generates so many caution messages that several times we’d have the master caution going off and we never noticed it until one of us said what’s that flashing yellow light a few minutes later. The master caution flashed all of the time so it’s perceived as “normal.”

As far as the fire bell is concerned. The most critical time for the engine fire is at V1. If engine fire warning goes off at V1. It doesn’t matter which one it is. The crew has to do the same thing whether it’s engine 1 or engine 2. Having the aural tell you which one doesn’t change what you do. So I don’t see the point in having the aural specify the specific engine that is on fire.

During the high altitude stall awareness training. The instructor will tell you the stall aural is going to occur. When you get into the exercise and get into the stall. Both pilots are busy and forget to cancel the aural and the plane will be annunciations “STALL” during the whole maneuver. And only afterwards the instructor wil mention did anyone hear the stall aural. “Nope”
 
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Starlionblue
Posts: 20806
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

Re: Question about cockpit audio warning

Tue Aug 31, 2021 1:01 am

To expand on Woodreau's comment about engine fire, it is probably better for the system not to tell you aurally which one is on fire. You really don't want to shut the wrong one down. A careful check of the engine instruments before action is far better than a kneejerk reaction based on an aural warning.
 
DarQuiet
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:31 am

Re: Question about cockpit audio warning

Tue Aug 31, 2021 2:37 am

Not a direct answer to your question but some pilots also complain by saying the cockpit aural warning is too loud. Before an aural warning can be modified to specifically mention the system at fault, there's a reason why there's PM (pilot monitoring) and PF (pilot flying) who each has corresponding task to perform particularly under a not normal scenario.



trent768 wrote:
I was watching some windshear videos on YouTube and then I started thinking: would additional audio warning be helpful in reducing pilot error or just pilot load in general?

Let say that a pilot lower their flaps to 15, then there's a "FLAP DOWN 15" audio warning just to remind the pilot that the flap was at 15. Another example would includes the runway awareness system, so if the system detects that the aircraft is on an active runway and the flap setting is wrong or even not extended at all, then a "CHECK FLAP SETTINGS" warning will be set off.

Last example, let's say that there's a fire on one of the engines. Instead of a loud ringing sound, where the pilot must check the display to see which one is on fire, why not tell them directly by screaming something like "ENGINE 1 FIRE! ENGINE 1 FIRE".

In my opinion, this would save those precious seconds that were usually spent on looking on the PFD. Do you think that'll improve safety? Thanks!
 
celestar345
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed May 08, 2013 5:35 pm

Re: Question about cockpit audio warning

Thu Sep 02, 2021 10:46 am

trent768 wrote:
I was watching some windshear videos on YouTube and then I started thinking: would additional audio warning be helpful in reducing pilot error or just pilot load in general?

Let say that a pilot lower their flaps to 15, then there's a "FLAP DOWN 15" audio warning just to remind the pilot that the flap was at 15. Another example would includes the runway awareness system, so if the system detects that the aircraft is on an active runway and the flap setting is wrong or even not extended at all, then a "CHECK FLAP SETTINGS" warning will be set off.

Last example, let's say that there's a fire on one of the engines. Instead of a loud ringing sound, where the pilot must check the display to see which one is on fire, why not tell them directly by screaming something like "ENGINE 1 FIRE! ENGINE 1 FIRE".

In my opinion, this would save those precious seconds that were usually spent on looking on the PFD. Do you think that'll improve safety? Thanks!


It's a cockpit philosophy issue here. Audio warning should be for something that the pilots aren't aware of and should be notified.

Say for the flap setting you were saying - putting the flap to a certain setting should not need any warning because the action is under pilot control and should be aware of what he/she is doing. And for takeoff/landing there is already takeoff warning / landing config warning to cover the wrong setting situation.

The loud warning noise is called "master warning" for a reason... say during an engine fire situation you would have all the associated systems on that engine going offline. Imagine all the warning being verbally announced it would be really annoying rather than being helpful.

Just my 2 cents...

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