Hey guys

I wondered which ECAM messages on an A320 (or other Airbuses) are causing a Master Warning.
I tried to collect all red messages.

AUTO FLT - AP off
Over speed
ENG 1 (2) (3) (4) Fire
APU Fire
Cargo Smoke
ENG Dual Flame Out
ENG 1 (2) (3) (4) LO Oil PR
L/G Gear Not Downlocked
L/G Gear Not Down
HYD G+Y (G+B) (B+Y) SYS LO PR
ELEC Emer Config
NAV ADR 1+2+3 Fault
CAB PR Excess Cab Alt

Which ones are missing?
Do multiple ELAC/FAC/SEC failures cause a master warning? (or low fuel?) (or moving the thrust levers to TOGA without T.O. config?)

Regards
ManuelNeuerFan1

(I am new in this forum. If there is a more suitable location for this thread, feel free to move it.)

The one I get a lot is (maybe twice a year)
FIRE. LAV SMOKE

People get surprised when the flight attendant barges in to the lavatory when they don’t answer the flight attendant knocking on the door or ignore the demand to open the door.

It’s always during cruise and it’s most alarming when you’re trying to stay awake on a red eye flight. But at least after that you’re not drowsy anymore.

Woodreau wrote:

The one I get a lot is (maybe twice a year)
FIRE. LAV SMOKE

People get surprised when the flight attendant barges in to the lavatory when they don’t answer the flight attendant knocking on the door or ignore the demand to open the door.

It’s always during cruise and it’s most alarming when you’re trying to stay awake on a red eye flight. But at least after that you’re not drowsy anymore.

I had that happen last year going from LAX-JFK. Turns out some dude was vaping in the bathroom. Adrenaline was pumping after that. Maybe I should have applied to FedEx...

ManuelNeuerFan1 wrote:

(or moving the thrust levers to TOGA without T.O. config?)

Moving the thrust levers to TOGA does not give you an ECAM because it isn't a fault. It's a normal operating thing, albeit somewhat unusual outside of takeoff, windshear and go around.

Starlionblue wrote:

ManuelNeuerFan1 wrote:

(or moving the thrust levers to TOGA without T.O. config?)

Moving the thrust levers to TOGA does not give you an ECAM because it isn't a fault. It's a normal operating thing, albeit somewhat unusual outside of takeoff, windshear and go around.

In this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c06S8rCwOnI&t=87s

when he moves the thrust levers to TOGA, an ECAM warning can be heard and seen (missing T.O. configuration?), but I'm not able to read the message on the display (too low resolution).

ManuelNeuerFan1 wrote:

Starlionblue wrote:

ManuelNeuerFan1 wrote:

(or moving the thrust levers to TOGA without T.O. config?)

Moving the thrust levers to TOGA does not give you an ECAM because it isn't a fault. It's a normal operating thing, albeit somewhat unusual outside of takeoff, windshear and go around.

In this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c06S8rCwOnI&t=87s

when he moves the thrust levers to TOGA, an ECAM warning can be heard and seen (missing T.O. configuration?), but I'm not able to read the message on the display (too low resolution).

That's not an ECAM for TOGA itself, though. He's getting CONFIG PARK BRK ON. You can see that the park brake handle is in the ON position.

Okay... the warning is for the parking brake only?
So you won't get a warning when you forget the flaps, or tha auto brake (RTO/MAX)?

ManuelNeuerFan1 wrote:

Okay... the warning is for the parking brake only?
So you won't get a warning when you forget the flaps, or tha auto brake (RTO/MAX)?

In this video, autobrake is armed at MAX and the flaps are at 1. So by elimination he probably got the park brake warning

Flaps not in a takeoff configuration would result in CONFIG SLATS (FLAPS) NOT IN T.O CONFIG when you set takeoff thrust.

I don't think having autobrake not armed actually gives a warning, but I could be wrong. However, TO MEMO would show a blue for AUTO BRK... MAX, which would be caught when you pressed TO CONFIG, and also in the before takeoff checklist.

Starlionblue wrote:

ManuelNeuerFan1 wrote:

Okay... the warning is for the parking brake only?
So you won't get a warning when you forget the flaps, or tha auto brake (RTO/MAX)?

I don't think having autobrake not armed actually gives a warning, but I could be wrong..

which makes me wonder... is that in any way customizable between customer and Airbus? I.e. "our SOP is to land with Autobreak armed, can we can a warning for that?".

Not just for autobreakes of course, but are warning conditions OEM only decisions or can Airlines tailor those?

best regards
Thomas

ManuelNeuerFan1 wrote:

Okay... the warning is for the parking brake only?
So you won't get a warning when you forget the flaps, or tha auto brake (RTO/MAX)?

There is no warning if you applied takeoff thrust without auto brake armed.

The Autobrake is MEL-able and the T/O MEMO will annunciate AUTO BRK ….. MAX in blue/cyan to indicate that it is not armed.

The aircraft will allow you to takeoff with no Autobrake and without a master warning.

tommy1808 wrote:

which makes me wonder... is that in any way customizable between customer and Airbus? I.e. "our SOP is to land with Autobreak armed, can we can a warning for that?".

Not just for autobreakes of course, but are warning conditions OEM only decisions or can Airlines tailor those?

best regards
Thomas

Obviously aircraft can be customized to meet the needs of the operator, by adding defined options. However, it's very rare/uncommon to just add a specific warning. Usually, warnings/ECAMs are added because of an additional/different system. You have to certify every option that you offer as a manufacturer, so "unique" options are quite rare (possibly for a very large order). Considering the complexity of modern aircraft, adding more warnings (which are not needed) would probably lead to spurious warnings and therefore distractions (and would therefore not pass the certification process). To take you example of the auto brake - there are quite a few situations where you should/can not arm the auto brake (auto brake INOP, landing with abnormal landing gear etc etc), so you would always get a false warning in these situations. To give you an example of additional warnings due to optional systems, A321s that have an ACT installed have ECAM messages related to this tank, f.e. "ACT XFR Fault".

What about "DUAL INPUT" warnings with differential sidestick movement? I thought there were some ADIRU warnings as well.

I'm not sure which are RED, but if you look at some of the QF32 documents, you can see the TONS of ECAM warnings the crew got.

I'd assume that nearly all flight control malfunctions or degrades would be red, and that's a LOT.

What about a brake overheat warning?

I'd think a CG warning would also be red.

Also after the "Azores" incident, didn't they program the computers a bit differently? I think a fuel imbalance or fuel implausible fuel consumption warning would do so as well.

Just a student pilot and big aviation nerd, but I'm sure there are tons. I think the current database is around like 1,200ish (though obviously not all "red".)

None of those are warnings.

Some are cautions and some are not monitored by ECAM (CG and fuel consumption)

estorilm wrote:

What about "DUAL INPUT" warnings with differential sidestick movement? I thought there were some ADIRU warnings as well.

I'm not sure which are RED, but if you look at some of the QF32 documents, you can see the TONS of ECAM warnings the crew got.

I'd assume that nearly all flight control malfunctions or degrades would be red, and that's a LOT.

What about a brake overheat warning?

I'd think a CG warning would also be red.

Also after the "Azores" incident, didn't they program the computers a bit differently? I think a fuel imbalance or fuel implausible fuel consumption warning would do so as well.

Just a student pilot and big aviation nerd, but I'm sure there are tons. I think the current database is around like 1,200ish (though obviously not all "red".)

1200? Not even close. I haven't counted the actual "red" warnings, but I don't think there are more than a couple of dozen. Almost all ECAMs are "amber" cautions.

The master warning needs to be reserved for stuff that you really need to action immediately, such as OVERSPEED. For the rest, the caution is quite enough. Otherwise, you make the warning meaningless. If that bell goes off, you really want the crew's attention. For example, ENG 1(2) FIRE is a warning, because that needs to be actioned "right the f- now", while ENG 1(2) FAIL is a caution, because you have a bit more time to sort things out. Of course, if you get ENG 1(2) FAIL right after V1, you will need to take some immediate action such as opposite rudder and so forth, but that's airmanship. If you see the nose start pointing sideways as you're rolling down the runway, your feet will input rudder almost without conscious thought.

I know QF32 got a lot of ECAMs, but they also had a lot of malfunctions. ECAM does prioritise procedures, however. The most important one comes first, and so on. In the end, airmanship counts as well. You shouldn't delay a necessary action, e.g. an urgent emergency landing, just to finish the ECAM procedures. If anyone has a link to the specific ECAM messages on QF32, I'd love to have a look.


To answer your specific examples/questions:
- Dual Input does not give an ECAM. It isn't a system malfunction.
- The only ADIRU related warning is NAV ADR 1+2+3 FAULT. The rest are cautions. (There's also a red ALL ADR OFF procedure, but it is the QRH, not ECAM. Does that count? )
- Flight control malfunctions and degrades are all cautions, except F/CTL L+R ELEV FAULT which is a warning.
- BRAKES HOT is a caution, not a warning. Incidentally, this is not quite common after landing. There isn't anything urgent about hot brakes per se.
- CG Warnings are cautions. F/CTL PITCH TRIM/MCDU/CG DISAGREE and FUEL ZFW ZFWCG DISAGREE, for example. They're not urgent and typically occur on the ground before engine start anyway.
- FUEL IMBALANCE and FUEL LEAK are cautions. Nothing needs to be done in a hurry, which in fact could be the lesson from the Azores incident.

(Information for the A330. The A320 may be slightly different.)

CFR 25.1322 amd 131 specifies that red alerts be for conditions that require immediate awareness and immediate action. EASA has an almost identical regulation. Boeing has long had this philosophy also.

On the 777, the possible red warning EICAS messages are (off the top of my head):

AUTOPILOT DISC
OVERSPEED
CABIN ALTITUDE
STABILIZER
CONFIG GEAR
CONFIG FLAPS
CONFIG PARKING BRAKE
CONFIG GEAR STEERING
CONFIG SPOILERS
CONFIG RUDDER
CONFIG DOORS
CONFIG STABILIZER
CONFIG WINGTIP (777-9 only)
FLAP OVERSPEED (777-9 only)

Red messages on the PFD are:

PULL UP
SPEEDBRAKE (Can’t recall if legacy 777 has this; 777-9, 787, 747-8, KC-46, 737 MAX have it)
WINDSHEAR
GO AROUND (777-9 only)
MAX BRAKES, MAX REVERSE (777-9 only)
REJECT (777-9 only)

Please correct me if I missed anything.

Other Boeing EICAS airplanes are similar, with some differences. The KC-46 has a few additional red EICAS and PFD warnings for military related stuff that I won’t specify.

Starlionblue wrote:

estorilm wrote:

What about "DUAL INPUT" warnings with differential sidestick movement? I thought there were some ADIRU warnings as well.

I'm not sure which are RED, but if you look at some of the QF32 documents, you can see the TONS of ECAM warnings the crew got.

I'd assume that nearly all flight control malfunctions or degrades would be red, and that's a LOT.

What about a brake overheat warning?

I'd think a CG warning would also be red.

Also after the "Azores" incident, didn't they program the computers a bit differently? I think a fuel imbalance or fuel implausible fuel consumption warning would do so as well.

Just a student pilot and big aviation nerd, but I'm sure there are tons. I think the current database is around like 1,200ish (though obviously not all "red".)

1200? Not even close. I haven't counted the actual "red" warnings, but I don't think there are more than a couple of dozen. Almost all ECAMs are "amber" cautions.

The master warning needs to be reserved for stuff that you really need to action immediately, such as OVERSPEED. For the rest, the caution is quite enough. Otherwise, you make the warning meaningless. If that bell goes off, you really want the crew's attention. For example, ENG 1(2) FIRE is a warning, because that needs to be actioned "right the f- now", while ENG 1(2) FAIL is a caution, because you have a bit more time to sort things out. Of course, if you get ENG 1(2) FAIL right after V1, you will need to take some immediate action such as opposite rudder and so forth, but that's airmanship. If you see the nose start pointing sideways as you're rolling down the runway, your feet will input rudder almost without conscious thought.

I know QF32 got a lot of ECAMs, but they also had a lot of malfunctions. ECAM does prioritise procedures, however. The most important one comes first, and so on. In the end, airmanship counts as well. You shouldn't delay a necessary action, e.g. an urgent emergency landing, just to finish the ECAM procedures. If anyone has a link to the specific ECAM messages on QF32, I'd love to have a look.


To answer your specific examples/questions:
- Dual Input does not give an ECAM. It isn't a system malfunction.
- The only ADIRU related warning is NAV ADR 1+2+3 FAULT. The rest are cautions. (There's also a red ALL ADR OFF procedure, but it is the QRH, not ECAM. Does that count? )
- Flight control malfunctions and degrades are all cautions, except F/CTL L+R ELEV FAULT which is a warning.
- BRAKES HOT is a caution, not a warning. Incidentally, this is not quite common after landing. There isn't anything urgent about hot brakes per se.
- CG Warnings are cautions. F/CTL PITCH TRIM/MCDU/CG DISAGREE and FUEL ZFW ZFWCG DISAGREE, for example. They're not urgent and typically occur on the ground before engine start anyway.
- FUEL IMBALANCE and FUEL LEAK are cautions. Nothing needs to be done in a hurry, which in fact could be the lesson from the Azores incident.

(Information for the A330. The A320 may be slightly different.)

1200 was the total, I mentioned "obviously not all red"

That was some great information though, and as for the Azores incident, I know they changed a few things but perhaps it was just the checklists and not ECAM warnings, I know you have to check for fuel leaks before opening the x-feed valves now.

That is indeed very interesting how bad things can be without actually triggering the master warning.

I know I've seen the ECAM list for QF32 somewhere, I'll try to get it for you - would be very interested to hear your reactions to everything.

Starlionblue wrote:

I know QF32 got a lot of ECAMs, but they also had a lot of malfunctions. ECAM does prioritise procedures, however. The most important one comes first, and so on. In the end, airmanship counts as well. You shouldn't delay a necessary action, e.g. an urgent emergency landing, just to finish the ECAM procedures. If anyone has a link to the specific ECAM messages on QF32, I'd love to have a look.

I went through the ATSB PDF and was actually able to find a timeline of the ECAM messages - I was kinda surprised that they not only mentioned all of them, but actually overlay them into a timeline of events and actions as well. These colors are how the ATSB represents phases of flight and reactions to the messages, not the priority of the ECAM message within the actual aircraft system, correct?

estorilm wrote:

Starlionblue wrote:

I know QF32 got a lot of ECAMs, but they also had a lot of malfunctions. ECAM does prioritise procedures, however. The most important one comes first, and so on. In the end, airmanship counts as well. You shouldn't delay a necessary action, e.g. an urgent emergency landing, just to finish the ECAM procedures. If anyone has a link to the specific ECAM messages on QF32, I'd love to have a look.

I went through the ATSB PDF and was actually able to find a timeline of the ECAM messages - I was kinda surprised that they not only mentioned all of them, but actually overlay them into a timeline of events and actions as well. These colors are how the ATSB represents phases of flight and reactions to the messages, not the priority of the ECAM message within the actual aircraft system, correct?

Thanks for finding that!

Not much to add except, "That's a lot of ECAM!!!"