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UA857
Topic Author
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Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:41 am

Airbus A350 hot and high performance?

Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:57 am

Does the A350 have the same hot and high performance capabilities as the 777X? Was SAA able to fly a full payload on JFK-JNB using the A359? Could DL or UA be able to fly a full A350 on their ATL/EWR-JNB nonstops?
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14661
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Airbus A350 hot and high performance?

Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:15 am

UA857 wrote:
Does the A350 have the same hot and high performance capabilities as the 777X?


Does anyone know the hot and high performance of the 777x yet? It probably will be very good, but no one in the public domain knows.

You can find some numbers her: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1446311

Was SAA able to fly a full payload on JFK-JNB using the A359?


given it is about one hour less flight time to JFK than ATL i don´t think SAA had much to complain about.

best regards
Thomas
 
UA857
Topic Author
Posts: 718
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:41 am

Re: Airbus A350 hot and high performance?

Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:50 am

tommy1808 wrote:
UA857 wrote:
Does the A350 have the same hot and high performance capabilities as the 777X?


Does anyone know the hot and high performance of the 777x yet? It probably will be very good, but no one in the public domain knows.

You can find some numbers her: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1446311

Was SAA able to fly a full payload on JFK-JNB using the A359?


given it is about one hour less flight time to JFK than ATL i don´t think SAA had much to complain about.

best regards
Thomas


Then could UA fly a full payload from EWR-JNB using an 280T A359 or would they need the 77X for that?
 
T54A
Posts: 377
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:47 am

Re: Airbus A350 hot and high performance?

Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:24 am

SAA had two weight variants, 2x 275t and 2x 280t. Out of JNB we would seldom see RTOW above 270t due to the density alt. BUT SAA only operated the A350 for a 5 months, so it never did a winter ops where temps were lower. In the seating config we had 330 seats the RTOW wasn’t an issue for summer ops. It doesn’t leave a lot of weight for belly cargo, but full pax was no problem. The fuel burn is so unbelievably good compared to the A346, that we lifted about 35t less fuel for the JNB-JFK sector, so that helped with weight issues.

Using Rwy 03L, Q1020, 5kt HW, Dry, Packs off with RTOW is

25deg C: 264.9t (Rwy 21R, 262.4t)
20deg C: 272.5t (Rwy 21R, 269.7t)
15deg C: 277,0t (Rwy 21R 274.0t)
Last edited by T54A on Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14661
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Airbus A350 hot and high performance?

Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:38 am

UA857 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
UA857 wrote:
Does the A350 have the same hot and high performance capabilities as the 777X?


Does anyone know the hot and high performance of the 777x yet? It probably will be very good, but no one in the public domain knows.

You can find some numbers her: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1446311

Was SAA able to fly a full payload on JFK-JNB using the A359?


given it is about one hour less flight time to JFK than ATL i don´t think SAA had much to complain about.

best regards
Thomas


Then could UA fly a full payload from EWR-JNB using an 280T A359 or would they need the 77X for that?


Given that it is beyond the MZFW range of the A359 and as far as we know 779 only the 778 might be able to do that. But i guess they´d be more interested in cost per ton/cost per passenger than "full payload" as a singular thing.

best regards
Thomas
 
UA857
Topic Author
Posts: 718
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:41 am

Re: Airbus A350 hot and high performance?

Mon Sep 20, 2021 4:03 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
UA857 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

Does anyone know the hot and high performance of the 777x yet? It probably will be very good, but no one in the public domain knows.

You can find some numbers her: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1446311



given it is about one hour less flight time to JFK than ATL i don´t think SAA had much to complain about.

best regards
Thomas


Then could UA fly a full payload from EWR-JNB using an 280T A359 or would they need the 77X for that?


Given that it is beyond the MZFW range of the A359 and as far as we know 779 only the 778 might be able to do that. But i guess they´d be more interested in cost per ton/cost per passenger than "full payload" as a singular thing.

best regards
Thomas


Wait... So EWR-JNB is beyond the range of a 280T A359?
 
T54A
Posts: 377
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:47 am

Re: Airbus A350 hot and high performance?

Mon Sep 20, 2021 4:39 pm

UA857 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
UA857 wrote:
Does the A350 have the same hot and high performance capabilities as the 777X?


Does anyone know the hot and high performance of the 777x yet? It probably will be very good, but no one in the public domain knows.

You can find some numbers her: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1446311

Was SAA able to fly a full payload on JFK-JNB using the A359?


given it is about one hour less flight time to JFK than ATL i don´t think SAA had much to complain about.

best regards
Thomas


Then could UA fly a full payload from EWR-JNB using an 280T A359 or would they need the 77X for that?


Yes. It would be a piece of cake. It’s the northbound sector that can get challenging at certain times of the year.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14661
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Airbus A350 hot and high performance?

Mon Sep 20, 2021 5:31 pm

UA857 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
UA857 wrote:

Then could UA fly a full payload from EWR-JNB using an 280T A359 or would they need the 77X for that?


Given that it is beyond the MZFW range of the A359 and as far as we know 779 only the 778 might be able to do that. But i guess they´d be more interested in cost per ton/cost per passenger than "full payload" as a singular thing.

best regards
Thomas


Wait... So EWR-JNB is beyond the range of a 280T A359?


No, beyond maximum zero fuel weight range. So it can't fly it with maximum structural payload, ~55t, which is a lot more than needed for a full cabin. It can fly that out to ~5700nm. EWR-JNB is further than that. For the 280-ish seats United would have on a A359 a full cabin would be a piece of cake either way. How much cargo on top of that is the interesting question.
A 787-9 can do [email protected], so it would need to trade about one hours fuel worth more payload for the range. A77W has about the same MZFW range as the A359, the 779 is expected to have the same. Just with more passenger space and less fuel burn.

Best regards
Thomas
 
T54A
Posts: 377
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:47 am

Re: Airbus A350 hot and high performance?

Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:34 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
UA857 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

Given that it is beyond the MZFW range of the A359 and as far as we know 779 only the 778 might be able to do that. But i guess they´d be more interested in cost per ton/cost per passenger than "full payload" as a singular thing.

best regards
Thomas


Wait... So EWR-JNB is beyond the range of a 280T A359?


No, beyond maximum zero fuel weight range. So it can't fly it with maximum structural payload, ~55t, which is a lot more than needed for a full cabin. It can fly that out to ~5700nm. EWR-JNB is further than that. For the 280-ish seats United would have on a A359 a full cabin would be a piece of cake either way. How much cargo on top of that is the interesting question.
A 787-9 can do [email protected], so it would need to trade about one hours fuel worth more payload for the range. A77W has about the same MZFW range as the A359, the 779 is expected to have the same. Just with more passenger space and less fuel burn.

Best regards
Thomas


Ok fair enough. I was thinking full pax, not max payload.

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