The other night I flew from CLT to FLL on an AA A321 and I was seated on the left side immediately forward of the engine. The unusual thing is that the landing light stayed on all the way up to cruising altitude and then was shut off. Upon descent into FLL the landing light came on at a much lower altitude, probably at about 10, 000 feet as usual.
Was this a case of the cockpit crew simply forgetting to turn the landing lights off when ascending or can a crew decide to keep the landing lights on all the way up to cruise altitude? As a side note, the weather was fine all the way to FLL.
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- Starlionblue
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Re: Landing lights question
Different operators have different procedures.
And yes, sometimes we forget things.
And yes, sometimes we forget things.
Re: Landing lights question
Don’t know if you can see the landing light from the passenger cabin. You can see the wing inspection light though.
Re: Landing lights question
Woodreau wrote:Don’t know if you can see the landing light from the passenger cabin. You can see the wing inspection light though.
You may not be able to see the actual fixture, but you can certainly see the light, especially in precipitation. Of course, I’m referring to wing root mounted lights. Fuselage, may be a bit more difficult to discern.
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- pwm2txlhopper
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Re: Landing lights question
Sometimes they’ll turn on the landing lights when going through a congested terminal area with lots of traffic. Lots of traffic in and out of CLT, ATL and enroute stuff going up and down the east coast. I’ve seen crewes turn the landing lights on when transiting through NYC airspace at night, and other large cities.
Re: Landing lights question
Was there noise or vibration with the lights on, or did things get smoother after they were turned off? The A320 series' folding landing lights stick out into the airflow and can produce noticeable effects above 250 knots. I think they also have a small fuel burn penalty. If not, then you may have been seeing the wing inspection lights (which in my observations AA typically has on up to FL180). Good thread here: viewtopic.php?t=1358773
I though I read somewhere that Cathay Pacific usually keeps its landing lights on until top of climb and turns them on again at top of descent, but I could be mistaken.
I've seen an LH Cargo MD-11 descending through the upper 20s with what appeared to be its landing lights on, so if true the same noise and vibration issues as the A320 would likely be present.
I though I read somewhere that Cathay Pacific usually keeps its landing lights on until top of climb and turns them on again at top of descent, but I could be mistaken.
I've seen an LH Cargo MD-11 descending through the upper 20s with what appeared to be its landing lights on, so if true the same noise and vibration issues as the A320 would likely be present.
Re: Landing lights question
N965UW wrote:Was there noise or vibration with the lights on, or did things get smoother after they were turned off? The A320 series' folding landing lights stick out into the airflow and can produce noticeable effects above 250 knots. I think they also have a small fuel burn penalty. If not, then you may have been seeing the wing inspection lights (which in my observations AA typically has on up to FL180). Good thread here: viewtopic.php?t=1358773
I though I read somewhere that Cathay Pacific usually keeps its landing lights on until top of climb and turns them on again at top of descent, but I could be mistaken.
I've seen an LH Cargo MD-11 descending through the upper 20s with what appeared to be its landing lights on, so if true the same noise and vibration issues as the A320 would likely be present.
First time I have heard of wing inspection lights so maybe that was what I was seeing. No vibration while the lights were on.
Re: Landing lights question
dfwjim1, just for your interest, here is a little background on exterior lighting.
In the U.S., at the two companies I have worked for, it is operations policy to display maximum exterior lighting whenever the aircraft is below FL180.
The exception, as noted above, is the landing lights on aircraft where the lights extend into the slipstream, due to the vibration as airspeed increases above 250 KIAS. During climb, the landing lights are normally turned OFF passing 10,000' MSL and turned back on descending through 10,000 feet (based on standard airspeed restriction of 250 KIAS maximum below 10,000 feet). However, there is no vibration associated with the wing lights as they are flush mounted on the fuselage (Airbus A320 series) and they normally remain illuminated until FL180.
The next time you fly aboard an A319/320/321 at night, check it out: from the cabin, you will notice that the wing lights illuminate most of the leading edge of the wing and part of the upper engine nacelle; in contrast, the landing lights will illuminate only the lower portion of the engine nacelle, not the wing. Also, even with airspeed below 250 KIAS, with the landing lights extended, you can detect a very slight vibration. When the lights are turned off and they retract, that vibration will completely disappear.
With regard to your question, "Was this a case of the cockpit crew simply forgetting to turn the landing lights off?"
Well, it is possible, of course, but on the A320 series there are two indicators that let you know you may have forgotten to turn the landing lights off:
1. As the airspeed increases above 250 KIAS, the vibration becomes very noticeable, and
2. On the upper ECAM (Engine Warning Display), there is a LDG LT annunciator when the landing lights are extended and that is a part of our normal instrument scan.
e38
In the U.S., at the two companies I have worked for, it is operations policy to display maximum exterior lighting whenever the aircraft is below FL180.
The exception, as noted above, is the landing lights on aircraft where the lights extend into the slipstream, due to the vibration as airspeed increases above 250 KIAS. During climb, the landing lights are normally turned OFF passing 10,000' MSL and turned back on descending through 10,000 feet (based on standard airspeed restriction of 250 KIAS maximum below 10,000 feet). However, there is no vibration associated with the wing lights as they are flush mounted on the fuselage (Airbus A320 series) and they normally remain illuminated until FL180.
The next time you fly aboard an A319/320/321 at night, check it out: from the cabin, you will notice that the wing lights illuminate most of the leading edge of the wing and part of the upper engine nacelle; in contrast, the landing lights will illuminate only the lower portion of the engine nacelle, not the wing. Also, even with airspeed below 250 KIAS, with the landing lights extended, you can detect a very slight vibration. When the lights are turned off and they retract, that vibration will completely disappear.
With regard to your question, "Was this a case of the cockpit crew simply forgetting to turn the landing lights off?"
Well, it is possible, of course, but on the A320 series there are two indicators that let you know you may have forgotten to turn the landing lights off:
1. As the airspeed increases above 250 KIAS, the vibration becomes very noticeable, and
2. On the upper ECAM (Engine Warning Display), there is a LDG LT annunciator when the landing lights are extended and that is a part of our normal instrument scan.
e38
Re: Landing lights question
I've seen the landing light come on when we're at least a good... very far away from the airport on descent.
I'm able to see aircraft from the North real far away with them on. Anyone familiar with Southwest's choice in activation? I figure below 10000 but on many flights I assume it's probably just below FL180 for some reason (i.e., busy terminal areas).
I'm able to see aircraft from the North real far away with them on. Anyone familiar with Southwest's choice in activation? I figure below 10000 but on many flights I assume it's probably just below FL180 for some reason (i.e., busy terminal areas).
Re: Landing lights question
Our shop requires one set of landing lights on below 18 along with wing inspection lights. All lights on when cleared to land including taxi lights. My old shop was below 10k, all lights on except taxi. Clear for the approach, taxi light came on. Both companies allow Captain discretion above 10K (old shop) 18K (current shop).
Re: Landing lights question
CarlosSi wrote:I've seen the landing light come on when we're at least a good... very far away from the airport on descent.
I'm able to see aircraft from the North real far away with them on. Anyone familiar with Southwest's choice in activation? I figure below 10000 but on many flights I assume it's probably just below FL180 for some reason (i.e., busy terminal areas).
WN is 18k for fixed landing lights and wing inspection lights. Retractable and taxi/runways turn off lights are turned off when flaps are retracted and turned on when flaps are extended.
Re: Landing lights question
m007j wrote:CarlosSi wrote:I've seen the landing light come on when we're at least a good... very far away from the airport on descent.
I'm able to see aircraft from the North real far away with them on. Anyone familiar with Southwest's choice in activation? I figure below 10000 but on many flights I assume it's probably just below FL180 for some reason (i.e., busy terminal areas).
WN is 18k for fixed landing lights and wing inspection lights. Retractable and taxi/runways turn off lights are turned off when flaps are retracted and turned on when flaps are extended.
Ah that makes sense with what I’ve observed. Thanks!
Re: Landing lights question
e38 wrote:dfwjim1, just for your interest, here is a little background on exterior lighting.
In the U.S., at the two companies I have worked for, it is operations policy to display maximum exterior lighting whenever the aircraft is below FL180.
The exception, as noted above, is the landing lights on aircraft where the lights extend into the slipstream, due to the vibration as airspeed increases above 250 KIAS. During climb, the landing lights are normally turned OFF passing 10,000' MSL and turned back on descending through 10,000 feet (based on standard airspeed restriction of 250 KIAS maximum below 10,000 feet). However, there is no vibration associated with the wing lights as they are flush mounted on the fuselage (Airbus A320 series) and they normally remain illuminated until FL180.
The next time you fly aboard an A319/320/321 at night, check it out: from the cabin, you will notice that the wing lights illuminate most of the leading edge of the wing and part of the upper engine nacelle; in contrast, the landing lights will illuminate only the lower portion of the engine nacelle, not the wing. Also, even with airspeed below 250 KIAS, with the landing lights extended, you can detect a very slight vibration. When the lights are turned off and they retract, that vibration will completely disappear.
With regard to your question, "Was this a case of the cockpit crew simply forgetting to turn the landing lights off?"
Thank you for clarifying things. I have never heard of wing inspection lights before posting my question so what I was definitely seeing was the wing inspection lights rather than the landing lights. Learning something new is part of the joy of being a member of Airliners.net!
Well, it is possible, of course, but on the A320 series there are two indicators that let you know you may have forgotten to turn the landing lights off:
1. As the airspeed increases above 250 KIAS, the vibration becomes very noticeable, and
2. On the upper ECAM (Engine Warning Display), there is a LDG LT annunciator when the landing lights are extended and that is a part of our normal instrument scan.
e38
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