a320fan wrote:Some of the seat counts are off, A321 singe class high density would be over 218. Examples, JQ @ 230, U2 @ 235 and W6 @ 239
This is a great database. I may suggest adding a few other items for efficiency scoring:
- Aspect ratio or spanloading, with a preference to spanloading
- Aircraft wetted area, and wetted area per seat. This is difficult to find, but for the Airbus aircraft, you can find the approximate surface areas of each component of the aircraft in the De-Icing and External Cleaning portion of the ACAPS. That will be a reasonable enough approximation.
- Thrust-to-MTOW ratio
IADFCO wrote:I noticed that the passenger comfort row is empty. May I suggest an alternate (or additional) metric based on available seat space, e.g., seat pitch and width? From a quick search, one data source for anthropomorphic measurements is here: https://ehs.oregonstate.edu/sites/ehs.oregonstate.edu/files/pdf/ergo/ergonomicsanddesignreferenceguidewhitepaper.pdf
some of the measurements useful to assess seat comfort are at page 13 of that pdf. I'm sure that there will be more detailed data somewhere else, e.g., in the US military.
Payload is included in line 14.
Taxi645 wrote:Here's my concept of a shared 6-abreast fuselage for the Boeing NSA and NMA:
It uses the circular dimension of the MC-21 fuselage, but with a lower floor to provide an even roomier cabin and most importantly, more width at the limiting head and shoulder height. This will require a new container type. Boeing being one half of the duopoly might be able to push that through. If not, bags it is. It would not be the end of the world, the comfort and flexibility from the extra cabin width that allows a passing aisle is more important in my view.
This fuselage design with the lowered floor will, within the same wetted area of the A320 series, have an aisle wide enough (with 737 wide seats) to pass each other for very fast boarding. In the NMA configuration it would have seat width and a spacious cabin a 321XLR could only dream of.
Personally I think this fuselage concept would be the ticket for Boeing to make a strong come back in the single aisle market. A come back Airbus would struggle to have an answer to. Boeing would have a plane that:
- Shared NMA/NSA cross section.
- Is 28 cm / 13 cm wider than the 757/737 and A320 respectively at comparable wetted area of the latter.
- Flexibility in seat width vs aisle width. (both short haul boarding speed and medium haul seat width comfort possible).
- Very comfortable economy possible vs. only 737 width possible on the small double aisle proposal).
- No floor in compression
- Much more cargo space than on the small double aisle proposal.
- You can than have a plane that has a fuselage advantage the A320 can not match without going cleansheet
- After ramp up will heave a production efficiency advantage.
- Will have state of the human/machine interface from lessons learned from MCAS.
- Have solved your MAX replacement problem, successfully launch a new 3x3 against a 60+/month competitor and cater fore a very decent part of the middle of the market with the NMA version of it.
torontofly wrote:I think in the chart we need to distinguish between PLD MAX @ Fuel and PLD @ FUEL MAX. Its a trade off in PLD-Range capabilities based on fuel tankage/MTOW/MLW. Platforms optimized for shorter range will demonstrate better PAX/OEW than LR design for the same PAX count as the latter needs more structure to carry more fuel (eg 195 vs A220-100).
Jungleneer wrote:The E195-E2 can seat up to 146 pax in single class @28” pitch and 132 @31” pitch. Don’t know what are the assumptions you are using, but this may be useful.
https://www.embraercommercialaviation.c ... rcial-jet/
Jungleneer wrote:But I believe Azul has their aircraft configured to 137 seats. Therefore, 132 seems a little bit low for a high density. KLM has 132 in dual class cabin.
keesje wrote:On container / pallet options, the A320, C919 and MS21 have it. AKH is the defacto standard in Europe and Asia. Asian airlines warned Boeing not having it on an NMA, is a no go for them. I think it is highly likely it will be an option on any new Boeing NSA/NMA. It's always been an burden on the 737, exploited by Airbus.
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