Good Afternoon,

Did/Do any airlines have restrictions on the use of the #2 Thrust Reverser when landing at outstations where maintenance would be problematic to reach that area of the Aircraft?

Thanks!

We didn't have such restrictions.

Funny thing is, if there was a stuck reverser or any other engine problem, there was a more than 1/3 chance it was #2. Not because of maintenance, #2 always got the same love as the others. She did it just because she could.

That would be great. Would save a lot of downline delays and interruptions.

Horstroad wrote:

We didn't have such restrictions.

Funny thing is, if there was a stuck reverser or any other engine problem, there was a more than 1/3 chance it was #2. Not because of maintenance, #2 always got the same love as the others. She did it just because she could.

33% of the powerplants, 75%...at least...of the problems with the powerplants.

Just a little off topic of thrust reverser, but I have a story on the center engine.
I was a passenger in an Eastern L-1011 in June 1978, taking off from ATL for SJU, and after rotation there was a big bang in the back of the plane, and the engine noise diminished substantially. We continued the takeoff and a few minutes later the FA announced that the center engine had a problem and had to be shut down, so we continued climbing on two engines. We spent about 45 minutes dumping fuel and returned to ATL safely.
I never found out exactly what happened, but I assume it was a fan blade separation.

delta-flyer wrote:

, but I assume it was a fan blade separation.

You would assume wrong. It was almost certainly a compressor stall. Fan blade separations are rare.

That 'S' duct did all kinds of funny things to the airflow, on both the L1011 & the B727.

I would have thought an INOP reverser on the center engine is preferable to 1 or 3.

77west wrote:

I would have thought an INOP reverser on the center engine is preferable to 1 or 3.

Maybe from a flight ops, point-of-view. But, locking out an inoperative #2 thrust reverser is an order of magnitude more difficult than the wing engines.

fr8mech wrote:

77west wrote:

I would have thought an INOP reverser on the center engine is preferable to 1 or 3.

Maybe from a flight ops, point-of-view. But, locking out an inoperative #2 thrust reverser is an order of magnitude more difficult than the wing engines.

Let me translate:

But, locking out an inoperative #2 thrust reverser is an order of magnitude more difficult than the wing engines = Much bigger delay.

Anyone know how much longer it would take to stow a #2 reverser that is stuck in the deploy position? Can you do it from the patio, or do you need a lift truck?

DL_Mech wrote:

Anyone know how much longer it would take to stow a #2 reverser that is stuck in the deploy position? Can you do it from the patio, or do you need a lift truck?

You should be able to do it from the patio. But, if you've got to gain access to that upper actuator, you'll need a truck or snorkel.

Talking about thrust reversers on a DC-10 or MD-11, would nr. 2 also be subject for retraction below 80/60kn like on most wing-engined aircraft?
I understand that the speed limit is there to avoid FOD ingestion, but this should not be an issue on the engine some 10m (?) above ground?

We had no separate policy for no.2. It was a blanket policy..out of reverse by 80kts.

TDAero777

...Did/Do any airlines have restrictions on the use of the #2 Thrust Reverser when landing at outstations where maintenance would be problematic to reach that area of the Aircraft?...

It's been quite some time since I was on loan to a charter company that flew the DC10-30, on mainly UK-Caribbean routes, but yes, we had a company policy (not a Flying Manual restriction) to avoid the use of #2 Thrust Reverser unless operationally necessary, for the reasons you quote and which fr8mech has expanded upon.

Best Regards

Bellerophon

Bellerophon wrote:

TDAero777

...Did/Do any airlines have restrictions on the use of the #2 Thrust Reverser when landing at outstations where maintenance would be problematic to reach that area of the Aircraft?...

It's been quite some time since I was on loan to a charter company that flew the DC10-30, on mainly UK-Caribbean routes, but yes, we had a company policy (not a Flying Manual restriction) to avoid the use of #2 Thrust Reverser unless operationally necessary, for the reasons you quote and which fr8mech has expanded upon.

So they just expected you to move the levers for 1 and 3 without moving 2?

AirKevin wrote:

Bellerophon wrote:

TDAero777

...Did/Do any airlines have restrictions on the use of the #2 Thrust Reverser when landing at outstations where maintenance would be problematic to reach that area of the Aircraft?...

It's been quite some time since I was on loan to a charter company that flew the DC10-30, on mainly UK-Caribbean routes, but yes, we had a company policy (not a Flying Manual restriction) to avoid the use of #2 Thrust Reverser unless operationally necessary, for the reasons you quote and which fr8mech has expanded upon.

So they just expected you to move the levers for 1 and 3 without moving 2?

Wouldnt be that hard really..

fr8mech wrote:

DL_Mech wrote:

Anyone know how much longer it would take to stow a #2 reverser that is stuck in the deploy position? Can you do it from the patio, or do you need a lift truck?

You should be able to do it from the patio. But, if you've got to gain access to that upper actuator, you'll need a truck or snorkel.

Or, if you have to MEL a GE powered MD-11 you'll need a lift truck or boom lift to disconnect the Directional Pilot Valve at the 10 o'clock position.

Had a friend that flew the DC-10 at Gemini and some Captains had an unofficial rule that if they were operating in remote places like Africa, not to use the #2 reverser on landing because of the problematic nature of locking the thing out being such a pain.

I’m just wondering what the lockout prodcedure is for an MD-11. I remember on a 767. Installing 3 red lock plates on the outside of the trans cowl and flipping and installing a locking square drive in the center drive unit. Easy enough on the ground, but much more time consuming when you are 2 stories off the ground. Then again, I’m sure T/Rs are different on an 11

I worked the Tristar/Rb211 for a long time, from 1974 to around 2000.
The very early engines were really hard to work on , it seemed as if Rolls Royce had not thought that they could fail!!, and lock out was very hard. But after a couple of years it was redisigned and much easier, if the translating cowl was in the forward thrust position..
But it regularly failed about half way, and a major cause of failure was that the two teleflex drives that ran from the air motor at the back of the engine through to the drive gearboxes on the front of the reverser used to birdcage and seize.
So you had to get inside the engine and open panels behind the fan and disconnect these drives before you could drive the reverser fwd and lock it out.
But with the reverser half way, there was no way in until you disconnected a blocker door. It all took time, and it was never easy working on a high lift.
The original RB211-22 had a hot stream reverser, which was soon disabled, and then removed. But the air motor had the power to operate it, and was too strong for driving only the fan reverser.
The later RB211-524G on the B767 and B744 was very similar, but worked much better.

tb727 wrote:

Had a friend that flew the DC-10 at Gemini and some Captains had an unofficial rule that if they were operating in remote places like Africa, not to use the #2 reverser on landing because of the problematic nature of locking the thing out being such a pain.

Absolutely..I had a friend who was a traveling mechanic for OMNI and he chewed the crew out on a DC-10 for using the #2 reverser on landing in Kuwait and sure enough #2 would not close after landing on a 11000 ft runway. Not sure what their policy was but I think it might have been like Gemini.

We had no restrictions

Lpbri wrote:

I’m just wondering what the lockout prodcedure is for an MD-11. I remember on a 767. Installing 3 red lock plates on the outside of the trans cowl and flipping and installing a locking square drive in the center drive unit

It's the same. Additionally you have to disconnect the electrical connector on the directional pilot valve solenoid and open the circuit breaker. The plates on the outside are only a visual indicator though. At least one per side is recommended.