I just came off a trans con flight and 121.5 has become unbearable to monitor. I had to shut it off. Someone transmits “Let’s Go Brandon” every few minutes followed by the snickering. It was bad enough 2 weeks ago but has become a complete joke.. We are required of course to monitor 121.5 during flight but the quiet is frequently broken with sophomoric political slogans, then the eventual “121.5 Police” try to put a stop to it only to get beat down. Is it only Southwest pilots doing this? Doubt it. But, other day a Southwest pilot was heard announcing the same political slogan over the cabin PA...my theory is he meant to transmit it on 121.5 and hit the wrong button on his intercom. Whoops. What a bunch of boobs. It makes me shut off 121.5 now which, of course, negates the reason we have 121.5 cued up on Comm 1 to begin with.

Is there nowhere we can go to avoid the political dust up going on everywhere in the US?

Rant over. -26.2

Don’t even call it politics! Those people has never had a concious political thought in their lives.

26point2 wrote:

I just came off a trans con flight and 121.5 has become unbearable to monitor. I had to shut it off. Someone transmits “Let’s Go Brandon” every few minutes followed by the snickering. It was bad enough 2 weeks ago but has become a complete joke.. We are required of course to monitor 121.5 during flight but the quiet is frequently broken with sophomoric political slogans, then the eventual “121.5 Police” try to put a stop to it only to get beat down. Is it only Southwest pilots doing this? Doubt it. But, other day a Southwest pilot was heard announcing the same political slogan over the cabin PA...my theory is he meant to transmit it on 121.5 and hit the wrong button on his intercom. Whoops. What a bunch of boobs. It makes me shut off 121.5 now which, of course, negates the reason we have 121.5 cued up on Comm 1 to begin with.

Is there nowhere we can go to avoid the political dust up going on everywhere in the US?

Rant over. -26.2

Midlife crisis men needing community to feed their validation seeking. It's little more than that.

It’s the trumptopian dog whistle. If the FAA can find these morons somehow and pull their certificates the world would be a better place.

It’s no wonder I liked corporate flying more than airline. You have to listen to it more in the cockpits, crew rooms.

Can always ASAP it - don't know what good it will do though - but I hope you're "monitoring" on COM2 and that center is on COM1.

Hopefully they have the presence of mind to quit their yakking when somebody has an actual emergency.

(But "Let's Go Brandon?" That's the most obtuse political slogan from anywhere besides Communist China in decades, goodness.)

Truly pathetic behavior, these so called professional pilots should be given some time off without pay

26point2 wrote:

I just came off a trans con flight and 121.5 has become unbearable to monitor. I had to shut it off. Someone transmits “Let’s Go Brandon” every few minutes followed by the snickering. It was bad enough 2 weeks ago but has become a complete joke.. We are required of course to monitor 121.5 during flight but the quiet is frequently broken with sophomoric political slogans, then the eventual “121.5 Police” try to put a stop to it only to get beat down. Is it only Southwest pilots doing this? Doubt it. But, other day a Southwest pilot was heard announcing the same political slogan over the cabin PA...my theory is he meant to transmit it on 121.5 and hit the wrong button on his intercom. Whoops. What a bunch of boobs. It makes me shut off 121.5 now which, of course, negates the reason we have 121.5 cued up on Comm 1 to begin with.

Is there nowhere we can go to avoid the political dust up going on everywhere in the US?

Rant over. -26.2

Not a rant, but justified complaint.

Let them (and other opposing sides) do their political bs on some local street corner in the pouring rain or cold if they are that insistent. Not on a frequency meant for important purposes.

I’m really over this nonsense.

No sure if the US has the system in place but all transmissions in UK airspace on 121.5 are triangulated in seconds by the D&D cells (and an abundance of other local facilities).
It really should be too difficult for the relevant authority stateside to identify the culprits abusing the emergency frequency.

ChrisKen wrote:

No sure if the US has the system in place but all transmissions in UK airspace on 121.5 are triangulated in seconds by the D&D cells (and an abundance of other local facilities).
It really should be too difficult for the relevant authority stateside to identify the culprits abusing the emergency frequency.

All of the 121.5 receivers are monitored by centers and approach controls, so anywhere they have coverage, they can get a general idea. However, it would likely require enlisting the help of nearby aircraft to really get an idea.

Dog whistles are not a problem on guard. It’s when someone blows a cat whistle that things get obnoxious.

I heard "Convoy," the C.W. McCall song on guard the other day. Easiest to just turn it off/down and move on.

DiamondFlyer wrote:

Easiest to just turn it off/down and move on.

But how do you then monitor the frequency as required if you do that.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

It’s no wonder I liked corporate flying more than airline. You have to listen to it more in the cockpits, crew rooms.

Ah yes. The dreaded 8-hour sector with that guy equipped with strong political opinions and no filter...

Starlionblue wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

It’s no wonder I liked corporate flying more than airline. You have to listen to it more in the cockpits, crew rooms.

Ah yes. The dreaded 8-hour sector with that guy equipped with strong political opinions and no filter...

Yup! I couldn’t tell the leanings of 20 or so corporate pilots I flew with for 12 years. At a no-gone airline, you knew that and their religion, family in the first hour. I’d hate it, then some would incompetent, to boot.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Starlionblue wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

It’s no wonder I liked corporate flying more than airline. You have to listen to it more in the cockpits, crew rooms.

Ah yes. The dreaded 8-hour sector with that guy equipped with strong political opinions and no filter...

Yup! I couldn’t tell the leanings of 20 or so corporate pilots I flew with for 12 years. At a no-gone airline, you knew that and their religion, family in the first hour. I’d hate it, then some would incompetent, to boot.

Some corner you at dispatch already. Expert level...

Prime example starts at 0m54s. https://youtu.be/rNxz2hhSXuY

Yeah I used to think the meowing was annoying, now this. I wonder what the next phrase will be, when will it end? I have no political leanings whatsoever, it just doesn't interest me one bit. I try and steer conversations towards normal topics or if that doesn't work, flip through the FOM and try to learn something interesting

I will say on occasion I have heard someone that takes a frequency change on guard over the years, that's when you can bet they were one of the ones being a clown on 121.5.

I'd rather listen to "let's go Brandon" than the meowing of the last several years. But I still miss the Beavis and Butthead sound clips from days gone by.

For the over 30 years I've been doing airline flying, guard has always been filled with non-emergency chatter, and the guard police.

(Edit: initial post asking about the possibility to use 123.45 for off-topic chat replaced by additional info)

I wondered whether VHF 123.45 could be used for "off-topic" conversations between pilots. The answer is NO, except - with reservations - in oceanic space far from VHF ground stations. More info and legal consequences of abusing radio comms here:
http://steinmetz.org/peter/flying/FingersFreq.html

10 grad for a violation is I rather high risk for broadcasting bulls*t, IMHO.

Kind regards,
Hendric

N1120A wrote:

All of the 121.5 receivers are monitored by centers and approach controls, so anywhere they have coverage, they can get a general idea. However, it would likely require enlisting the help of nearby aircraft to really get an idea.

Minor correction, 121.5 is monitored by TRACONS and Towers, but not by ARTCC for some reason. Or at least that is how it was when I retired.

IAHFLYR wrote:

N1120A wrote:

All of the 121.5 receivers are monitored by centers and approach controls, so anywhere they have coverage, they can get a general idea. However, it would likely require enlisting the help of nearby aircraft to really get an idea.

Minor correction, 121.5 is monitored by TRACONS and Towers, but not by ARTCC for some reason. Or at least that is how it was when I retired.

I hear center calling people on Guard all the time. I think they use it more than anyone.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Starlionblue wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

It’s no wonder I liked corporate flying more than airline. You have to listen to it more in the cockpits, crew rooms.

Ah yes. The dreaded 8-hour sector with that guy equipped with strong political opinions and no filter...

Yup! I couldn’t tell the leanings of 20 or so corporate pilots I flew with for 12 years. At a no-gone airline, you knew that and their religion, family in the first hour. I’d hate it, then some would incompetent, to boot.

Really ?

I find that hard to believe, 20 pilots who didn’t like to expand on their feelings and beliefs ?


I’ve never encountered such behavior in any group of pilots in any organization !

It just never came up—I honestly can’t remember a political discussion in the plane. If you have a three day layover in Berlin, South Africa or Sydney, do something, don’t bog in the stupidity of politics. Life is NOT politics. I remember a Brazilian handler hating on Lulu. The Canadians I knew would ask how something works in America and gripe it’s not like home. But, no, no in the least like EAL pilots.

Many of these pilots are still close friends and I can only guess who they might have voted for. Certainly no nutters.

N1120A wrote:

I hear center calling people on Guard all the time. I think they use it more than anyone.

Allow me to rephrase. Having never worked in a center only told by a center controller friend that they "don't monitor it", but you are correct they do have it and the ability to transmit as we used to hear them all the time "N12345 Houston Center on guard". Gosh I hate forgetting such things as that.....so sorry!

IAHFLYR wrote:

N1120A wrote:

I hear center calling people on Guard all the time. I think they use it more than anyone.

Allow me to rephrase. Having never worked in a center only told by a center controller friend that they "don't monitor it", but you are correct they do have it and the ability to transmit as we used to hear them all the time "N12345 Houston Center on guard". Gosh I hate forgetting such things as that.....so sorry!

Center most definitely monitors guard

24/7

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

It just never came up—I honestly can’t remember a political discussion in the plane. If you have a three day layover in Berlin, South Africa or Sydney, do something, don’t bog in the stupidity of politics. Life is NOT politics. I remember a Brazilian handler hating on Lulu. The Canadians I knew would ask how something works in America and gripe it’s not like home. But, no, no in the least like EAL pilots.

Many of these pilots are still close friends and I can only guess who they might have voted for. Certainly no nutters.

With all due respect, I just do not believe you


Pilots are not shy about their opinions, many are downright opinionated regardless of where they are


You seem to have a grudge against airline pilots and are implying that corporate types don’t share these most common characteristics, that’s not credible or believable


It makes no sense, there’s no way they leave their beliefs and opinions at home about politics and other incendiary subjects

Max Q wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

It just never came up—I honestly can’t remember a political discussion in the plane. If you have a three day layover in Berlin, South Africa or Sydney, do something, don’t bog in the stupidity of politics. Life is NOT politics. I remember a Brazilian handler hating on Lulu. The Canadians I knew would ask how something works in America and gripe it’s not like home. But, no, no in the least like EAL pilots.

Many of these pilots are still close friends and I can only guess who they might have voted for. Certainly no nutters.

With all due respect, I just do not believe you


Pilots are not shy about their opinions, many are downright opinionated regardless of where they are


You seem to have a grudge against airline pilots and are implying that corporate types don’t share these most common characteristics, that’s not credible or believable


It makes no sense, there’s no way they leave their beliefs and opinions at home about politics and other incendiary subjects

It makes sense to me. I don't deny that many pilots have strong opinions, many of which I completely disagree with. What I dislike is how some voice said opinions in a rude and condescending manner designed to antagonise, especially when they do it to a captive audience of more junior crew.

Not unique to the pilot profession, to be sure.

In a smaller organisation, there is less room for such toxic personalities. They tend to be weeded out, if they are hired at all. In larger organisations, different story.

My two cents.

Starlionblue wrote:

Max Q wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

It just never came up—I honestly can’t remember a political discussion in the plane. If you have a three day layover in Berlin, South Africa or Sydney, do something, don’t bog in the stupidity of politics. Life is NOT politics. I remember a Brazilian handler hating on Lulu. The Canadians I knew would ask how something works in America and gripe it’s not like home. But, no, no in the least like EAL pilots.

Many of these pilots are still close friends and I can only guess who they might have voted for. Certainly no nutters.

With all due respect, I just do not believe you


Pilots are not shy about their opinions, many are downright opinionated regardless of where they are


You seem to have a grudge against airline pilots and are implying that corporate types don’t share these most common characteristics, that’s not credible or believable


It makes no sense, there’s no way they leave their beliefs and opinions at home about politics and other incendiary subjects

It makes sense to me. I don't deny that many pilots have strong opinions, many of which I completely disagree with. What I dislike is how some voice said opinions in a rude and condescending manner designed to antagonise, especially when they do it to a captive audience of more junior crew.

Not unique to the pilot profession, to be sure.

In a smaller organisation, there is less room for such toxic personalities. They tend to be weeded out, if they are hired at all. In larger organisations, different story.

My two cents.

That’s about it, in a small group you won’t be tolerated. You fit in. We had two bases, the Midwest guys could in the bar express some political opinions, pretty much what’d you expect, no nutters like I saw at the airline and not in the plane. Two were known to be very religious—same deal, they never talked about it. My EAL BOS base had a few guys that’d start the day with, “have you heard from Our Lord” speech. You can’t hide in a group of 25. If one of us tried the Guard shenanigans, you’d be called out. Heck, we couldn’t get away with using non-ICAO English.

Starlionblue wrote:

Max Q wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

It just never came up—I honestly can’t remember a political discussion in the plane. If you have a three day layover in Berlin, South Africa or Sydney, do something, don’t bog in the stupidity of politics. Life is NOT politics. I remember a Brazilian handler hating on Lulu. The Canadians I knew would ask how something works in America and gripe it’s not like home. But, no, no in the least like EAL pilots.

Many of these pilots are still close friends and I can only guess who they might have voted for. Certainly no nutters.

With all due respect, I just do not believe you


Pilots are not shy about their opinions, many are downright opinionated regardless of where they are


You seem to have a grudge against airline pilots and are implying that corporate types don’t share these most common characteristics, that’s not credible or believable


It makes no sense, there’s no way they leave their beliefs and opinions at home about politics and other incendiary subjects

It makes sense to me. I don't deny that many pilots have strong opinions, many of which I completely disagree with. What I dislike is how some voice said opinions in a rude and condescending manner designed to antagonise, especially when they do it to a captive audience of more junior crew.

Not unique to the pilot profession, to be sure.

In a smaller organisation, there is less room for such toxic personalities. They tend to be weeded out, if they are hired at all. In larger organisations, different story.

My two cents.

I agree with the first half of your post but not the second, I know very few people that won’t eventually tell you their strongly held opinions


Pilots, unfortunately have some of the most extreme beliefs and I often saw their enthusiasm for support of the most disgusting politicians over the years, more than a few are incapable of being discreet, let alone showing good judgment in fostering a good crew environment, their speeches ‘have to be heard’


It’s simply not credible in any organization, regardless of its size that such attitudes don’t surface occasionally

Occasionally, off duty, sure; not on the job. Besides, even in a Global, you’re not behind closed doors.

Believe what you want, if you haven’t been in one.

I may be totally wrong on this (probably am ) that Brandon is the name of the straight man on the joke that is Mike Lindell's FrankSpeech media channel. Has anybody thought of suggesting on air that the offending airline has similar operational standards ?

I agree, it’s getting ridiculous.

VolvoBus wrote:

I may be totally wrong on this (probably am ) that Brandon is the name of the straight man on the joke that is Mike Lindell's FrankSpeech media channel. Has anybody thought of suggesting on air that the offending airline has similar operational standards ?

Short version, kid named Brandon won a lower series NASCAR race, for some reason during the interview the crowd was chanting *Expletive* Joe Biden, NBCsports reporter said they were saying Lets Go Brandon and then the internet trolls ran with it.

Either way, no reason for it to be on 121.5, or really anywhere tbh.

It’s wrong, it’s pervasive and it’s a lot of Southwest pilots. The voices on guard are the same as the ones using SW call signs. The audio is exactly the same. It’s amateur hour. Not enough how they abuse 123.45 to/from Hawaii, they now want to star on 121.5.

mcdu wrote:

It’s wrong, it’s pervasive and it’s a lot of Southwest pilots. The voices on guard are the same as the ones using SW call signs. The audio is exactly the same. It’s amateur hour. Not enough how they abuse 123.45 to/from Hawaii, they now want to star on 121.5.

Is there some reason that WN has been having this issue? I feel like most of these political controversies lately originate with them. Perhaps company culture or a large presence in the South which leans right?

I've done some domestic and trans-oceanic flying pretty recently, and what I've heard lots of static and ride report requests, so YMMV.

DN4CAAD wrote:

mcdu wrote:

It’s wrong, it’s pervasive and it’s a lot of Southwest pilots. The voices on guard are the same as the ones using SW call signs. The audio is exactly the same. It’s amateur hour. Not enough how they abuse 123.45 to/from Hawaii, they now want to star on 121.5.

Is there some reason that WN has been having this issue? I feel like most of these political controversies lately originate with them. Perhaps company culture or a large presence in the South which leans right?

Consider that the poster who claims that WN pilots are the guilty parties has a well-documented hatred for WN. I’d be happy to consider evidence that this behavior comes disproportionately from WN pilots but so far there’s been none of that sort of evidence.

Cubsrule wrote:

DN4CAAD wrote:

mcdu wrote:

It’s wrong, it’s pervasive and it’s a lot of Southwest pilots. The voices on guard are the same as the ones using SW call signs. The audio is exactly the same. It’s amateur hour. Not enough how they abuse 123.45 to/from Hawaii, they now want to star on 121.5.

Is there some reason that WN has been having this issue? I feel like most of these political controversies lately originate with them. Perhaps company culture or a large presence in the South which leans right?

Consider that the poster who claims that WN pilots are the guilty parties has a well-documented hatred for WN. I’d be happy to consider evidence that this behavior comes disproportionately from WN pilots but so far there’s been none of that sort of evidence.

Have you ever listened to SWA pilots on ATC? It’s the same U-fly mic that they all use and the same tone. You hear the same voice answer a frequency change with the same voice and side tone of the Political childishness. It’s not hard to connect the dots when your job is to listen to transmissions on ATC and Guard.

The sW pilots are a unhappy group. Go visit one of the pilot boards and take a peak. There are even a few trying to reign in their own, to no avail.

WN pilots have been groomed for decades that they are the the best ever and can't do wrong. There is very little accountability with pilots unless there is a very public situation. There is a lot of anti authority conspiracy theory employees at SWA.

I haven’t heard a thing on guard this week. Almost wondering if comm two needs to be written up.


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DashTrash wrote:

I haven’t heard a thing on guard this week. Almost wondering if comm two needs to be written up.


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DashTrash wrote:

I haven’t heard a thing on guard this week. Almost wondering if comm two needs to be written up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Unfortunately, I heard a number of unprofessional knuckleheads on guard last week. I heard a lot of "Brandon" nonsense and a few guys saying "Fox, Juliet, Bravo." It's so disappointing how far some members of our profession have fallen. It almost makes me miss the days when the biggest clowns on guard were the guys making cat noises!

Does those happen in other areas?

Yup. Unfortunately 121.5 is where all the knuckleheads of the industry seem to hang out now. Monitoring it seems to have become worse in the last year or so.

And yes, I’ve also noticed the WN pattern…

The WN problem is that their pilots have historically come from a more limited regional background than the other big airlines, and some of their hiring rules have favored military pilots (though, that isn't universal - they hate Osprey pilots for some reason). When a big chunk of your pilots are white males from Texas, Florida and Arizona, there are likely going to be certain political leanings that get pervasive. Remember, these are pilots who, until a few years ago, never left the Lower 48 for work.

I've always been a big fan of Southwest. I like their safety culture, their service, value, etc. Being from California, I've always viewed Southwest as a short haul business airline with great coach service and flew them all the time before I bought my own airplane to fly myself on the kind of flights I used to use them for. I'm not, however, going to lie to myself and assume they have a pilot culture that isn't conducive to this behavior.

N1120A wrote:

The WN problem is that their pilots have historically come from a more limited regional background than the other big airlines, and some of their hiring rules have favored military pilots (though, that isn't universal - they hate Osprey pilots for some reason). When a big chunk of your pilots are white males from Texas, Florida and Arizona, there are likely going to be certain political leanings that get pervasive. Remember, these are pilots who, until a few years ago, never left the Lower 48 for work.

I've always been a big fan of Southwest. I like their safety culture, their service, value, etc. Being from California, I've always viewed Southwest as a short haul business airline with great coach service and flew them all the time before I bought my own airplane to fly myself on the kind of flights I used to use them for. I'm not, however, going to lie to myself and assume they have a pilot culture that isn't conducive to this behavior.

Yes. This is a Southwest Airlines thing. A WN thing within the 121 world in the US. My personal mentor, uncle, that got me into aviation has worked SOCAL TRACON for decades, and has heard this and worse. Without reservation, he told me that he's heard (of course) some wild transmissions, but as far as 121 carriers... accidental key'ed transmissions, on guard, dispatch communications, or public stuff like this, "Those Southwest guys need to learn manners!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScTIChfEt7Q&t=5s

And for what THAT'S worth: That pilot was returned to service after an "apology" letter.

As far as the radio, and Guard abuse by 121 pilots (Thanksgiving dinner? Damn, I made a mistake by bringing this up).. My Uncle ATC (R) went OFF on the fact that the (part)121 crowd are overwhelmingly (guard)121.5 freq abusers from what he suspects ("knows") are WN. He said it's consistently getting worse.

Put politics, military, or just having a bad day aside: He suspects that there is a training issue, morale issue, or.. something.. within that company. Of course: What can be done? Something. What will be done? Probably nothing.

"...OK Uncle. I posted your rant!"

tl;dr: My ATC Uncle wants to say that the politicization of 121.5 among 121 carriers is almost entirely from WN pilots.

The worst part of the job was always flying with far right idiots like this


Trump has only made them worse, now they’re convinced their views are legitimate and they’re not happy until they impose them on you


No politics or religion in the cockpit, simple rule

Max Q wrote:

The worst part of the job was always flying with far right idiots like this

Trump has only made them worse, now they’re convinced their views are legitimate and they’re not happy until they impose them on you

No politics or religion in the cockpit, simple rule

Max Q: You, TB, and a few others are some of my favorite posters.

In the spirit of protecting you from the fact that you mentioned T****, let's go back to "Living the Dream!" so as not to upset viewers and moderators

https://youtu.be/rNxz2hhSXuY?t=67

rjsampson wrote:

Put politics, military, or just having a bad day aside: He suspects that there is a training issue, morale issue, or.. something.. within that company. Of course: What can be done? Something. What will be done? Probably nothing.

"...OK Uncle. I posted your rant!"

tl;dr: My ATC Uncle wants to say that the politicization of 121.5 among 121 carriers is almost entirely from WN pilots.

I’ve noticed through my career on the ground that WN pilots (not all, but many) still carry that sort of good old boy/flyboy mentality. Compared to the EU carriers that I ended up working with long term, WN pilots were basically John Wayne cowboys. Undoubtedly fun to work with in my limited interaction, but for certain groups of people…what we laughed at would certainly be unacceptable, and honestly…rightfully so.

I definitely think the preference for military pilots played a role.