I would be interested, except for any critical security information, of procedures if a pilot or co-pilot if a sick or becomes incapacitated during a commercial flight.
One question I have is if a doctor on board, would they be allowed in to the cockpit to try to determine what the medical problem is, to communicate with medical services on the ground, operate equipment like a defibrillator.
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Re: Procedures if a sick/incapicated pilot or co-pilot in flight ?
Dear ltbewr.
Most likely, cabin crew would evacuate the incapacitated pilot towards the forward galley.
It's much more convenient to start the treatment there, instead of inside the cramped cockpit, where an additional person might inadvertently touch a control or a switch.
Hendric
Most likely, cabin crew would evacuate the incapacitated pilot towards the forward galley.
It's much more convenient to start the treatment there, instead of inside the cramped cockpit, where an additional person might inadvertently touch a control or a switch.
Hendric
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- GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Procedures if a sick/incapicated pilot or co-pilot in flight ?
First, latch and lock the shoulder harness. Tough to do if only two pilots, if so, get a flight attendant into the cockpit. Yes, move the pilot somewhere where access for treatment can be applied, esp if it’s a suspected heart attack.
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- IFlyVeryLittle
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Re: Procedures if a sick/incapicated pilot or co-pilot in flight ?
First question: Did they eat chicken or fish?
Re: Procedures if a sick/incapicated pilot or co-pilot in flight ?
Neither. Spoiled airport fast food that waited a little too long to get to cruise to consume it
Re: Procedures if a sick/incapicated pilot or co-pilot in flight ?
Woodreau wrote:Neither. Spoiled airport fast food that waited a little too long to get to cruise to consume it
Fast food doesn’t spoil; something has to first be fresh before it can spoil.
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- Boeing757100
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Re: Procedures if a sick/incapicated pilot or co-pilot in flight ?
IFlyVeryLittle wrote:First question: Did they eat chicken or fish?
Shirley (surely) you can't be serious?!
Jokes aside, I think that what the OP outlined seemed pretty reasonable. However, what if there is no doctor on board? In that case I would assume that the FAs would try to help by doing CPR. (Any FAs/pilots on here can correct what I'm saying) and I think pilots also have to have basic first aid knowledge at the bare minimum. I'd also assume any pax who know CPR would probably try to help also.
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- Starlionblue
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Re: Procedures if a sick/incapicated pilot or co-pilot in flight ?
Incapacitation events take many forms. Everything from a momentary microsleep to a stroke to (sadly) death. How you treat them would be different. Some are even hard to notice. One critical element is how likely the incapacitated pilot is to move around. If he/she is having a seizure, obviously restraining and/or removing from the seat become important considerations.
On Airbus, there is a lever to lock the shoulder harness which can help. Also, holding the instinctive disconnect pushbutton on the stick deactivates the other stick.
We do train for single pilot ops. For example, there are sim scenarios where the PF or PM stops responding during climbout or other critical phase. Workload goes way up but it is manageable. Max use of automation is obviously a good idea.
Whether to allow a doctor you don't know in the cockpit would be decided on a case to case basis, but in general the answer would be no. Easier to get the incapacitated pilot out of the cockpit.
We aren't really trained in first aid, though I think the cargo guys have a bit more knowledge. We rely on the cabin crew, who have extensive first aid training. We can also call MedLink on satcom.
Most flights are two pilot. The remaining pilot would need to prioritise, and the aircraft always has first priority. Leaving your seat to perform first aid seems like a very bad idea.
CPR would be appropriate in some cases, but as mentioned incapacitation can take many forms. A cardiac event is not the most likely. Of note is that many, if not most, aircraft nowadays are equipped with an AED (Automatic External Defibrillator).
On Airbus, there is a lever to lock the shoulder harness which can help. Also, holding the instinctive disconnect pushbutton on the stick deactivates the other stick.
We do train for single pilot ops. For example, there are sim scenarios where the PF or PM stops responding during climbout or other critical phase. Workload goes way up but it is manageable. Max use of automation is obviously a good idea.
Whether to allow a doctor you don't know in the cockpit would be decided on a case to case basis, but in general the answer would be no. Easier to get the incapacitated pilot out of the cockpit.
Boeing757100 wrote:IFlyVeryLittle wrote:First question: Did they eat chicken or fish?
Shirley (surely) you can't be serious?!
Jokes aside, I think that what the OP outlined seemed pretty reasonable. However, what if there is no doctor on board? In that case I would assume that the FAs would try to help by doing CPR. (Any FAs/pilots on here can correct what I'm saying) and I think pilots also have to have basic first aid knowledge at the bare minimum. I'd also assume any pax who know CPR would probably try to help also.
We aren't really trained in first aid, though I think the cargo guys have a bit more knowledge. We rely on the cabin crew, who have extensive first aid training. We can also call MedLink on satcom.
Most flights are two pilot. The remaining pilot would need to prioritise, and the aircraft always has first priority. Leaving your seat to perform first aid seems like a very bad idea.
CPR would be appropriate in some cases, but as mentioned incapacitation can take many forms. A cardiac event is not the most likely. Of note is that many, if not most, aircraft nowadays are equipped with an AED (Automatic External Defibrillator).
Re: Procedures if a sick/incapicated pilot or co-pilot in flight ?
Boeing757100 wrote:Jokes aside, I think that what the OP outlined seemed pretty reasonable. However, what if there is no doctor on board? In that case I would assume that the FAs would try to help by doing CPR. (Any FAs/pilots on here can correct what I'm saying) and I think pilots also have to have basic first aid knowledge at the bare minimum. I'd also assume any pax who know CPR would probably try to help also.
Part of the cabin crew re-qualification drill is pilot incap. Pull him off the controls, lock the inertia reel, hands under the straps, legs away from rudders and move the seat back.
Then administer oxygen. Under my jurisdiction, we were told to leave the pilot in the seat, but honestly I do not follow the logic. Get him out of there if you've got assistance, then you can at least do CPR (if called for). For the drill we stopped after applying the O2 mask - I would have loved to have seen a small lady FA pull a heavy guy out of his seat.. It think that part would be really difficult.
There's some thinking but no SOP about assisting the pilot, reading checklist etc, but that would probably be very dynamic about who is responding, what is needed etc.
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- ACMIdriver
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Re: Procedures if a sick/incapicated pilot or co-pilot in flight ?
It's nice to have the luxury of cabin crew and doctors on board if this happens to you. But I've done more than a few transatlantic legs on the freighter with just two of us up front, no loadmaster, no mechanics or deadheads.
Would not be a fun day to end up on your own at 30W in the middle of the night.
Would not be a fun day to end up on your own at 30W in the middle of the night.
Re: Procedures if a sick/incapicated pilot or co-pilot in flight ?
fr8mech wrote:Fast food doesn’t spoil; something has to first be fresh before it can spoil.
There’s many times I’ve gotten food at airport intending to eat it when I get to the airplane. But preflight ends up taking a little extra longer and I forget that I had gotten food and it’s been sitting on the side console for a few hours.
By the time I get to eat it a few hours later it’s nice and cold. No amount of putting it on the coffee warmer is heating it Up other than encouraging the bacteria to grow faster.
I brief the other guy first. If I get food poisoning your instructions are to continue to destination. Do not divert. Declare an emergency if you desire but it’s not required. Land the plane at the intended destination. Let me die, log your PIC time. Move up one number closer to upgrade
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- Piedmont500
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Re: Procedures if a sick/incapicatedb pilot or co-pilot in flight ?
IFlyVeryLittle wrote:First question: Did they eat chicken or fish?
No, lasagna
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- BWIAirport
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Re: Procedures if a sick/incapicated pilot or co-pilot in flight ?
I've heard that when this happens, a flight simmer volunteers to take over and flies everyone to safety.
Re: Procedures if a sick/incapicated pilot or co-pilot in flight ?
In recent months, a huge number of healthy people have developed sudden serious illness, leading to complete disability and even death.
We all know it wasn't caused by meat or fish, much less lazagna. When are we going to take this matter seriously?
We all know it wasn't caused by meat or fish, much less lazagna. When are we going to take this matter seriously?
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- LimaFoxTango
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Re: Procedures if a sick/incapicated pilot or co-pilot in flight ?
Woodreau wrote:f I get food poisoning your instructions are to continue to destination. Do not divert. Declare an emergency if you desire but it’s not required. Land the plane at the intended destination. Let me die, log your PIC time. Move up one number closer to upgrade
Wished there were more captains like you.
Re: Procedures if a sick/incapicated pilot or co-pilot in flight ?
Nean1 wrote:In recent months, a huge number of healthy people have developed sudden serious illness, leading to complete disability and even death.
We all know it wasn't caused by meat or fish, much less lazagna. When are we going to take this matter seriously?
Yes, those with COVID-19 infections can have complications even long after symptoms disappear. I recently learned that something even as simple as strep throat can cause heart issues if not treated with antibiotics because the bacteria slowly spread to heart tissues. As a college student, I have seen plenty of young, healthy, and active students get vaccinated and avoid these issues from COVID infection.
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