Hello all,

I was wondering if airlines went on test flights or demo flights with new aircraft before making a purchase. I just wondered if say an airline wanted to explore making a purchase of a new aircraft type if they had pilots or some team of folks who tested out an A/C type themselves before purchasing it. Kinda like test driving a car…

Any insight would be great.

Airlines don't employ test pilots. If their pilots are going to fly a plane, it will be in the process of getting a type rating for it. Purchases are done based on the published, verifiable test numbers the manufacturers put out and the overall fit into a fleet.

Airline representatives certainly get taken on demo flights and simulator sessions. If a new type is entering service, the manufacturer will stage demo tours through the region. The manufacturer sometimes also invites customer cabin crew to "operate" on these flights, actually using the galleys and serving, etc...

Route proving is important to give ground staff, cabing crew and others, a bit more of a hands-on feel than you would get from just abstracts.

For example here is the A350 on a couple of Asia demo tours and route proving flights before EIS.
- https://youtu.be/DsE9POJ03sI
- https://youtu.be/0ptBppaQYjc
- https://youtu.be/BAm4l6lSSTs

N1120A wrote:

Airlines don't employ test pilots. If their pilots are going to fly a plane, it will be in the process of getting a type rating for it. Purchases are done based on the published, verifiable test numbers the manufacturers put out and the overall fit into a fleet.

Many airlines employ test pilots. However, we're not talking Chuck Yeager style test piloting. They're line pilots who also perform things like equipment verification flights as needed.

I think the term "test flight" or "test pilot" are being used incorrectly here. True testing is done, as mentioned, by the manufacturer before certification. But yes certainly the airlines flight operations team / chief pilot / chief technical pilot or whatever term they use will have some input. Also my understanding is that you don't necessarily have to be fully type rated in order to evaluate an aircraft as long as there are fully type rated and approved pilots on board and in at least one of the pilots seats. This may vary by country but I have read several reports from pilots doing demo flights and getting a feel for the aircraft.

Starlionblue wrote:

Airline representatives certainly get taken on demo flights and simulator sessions. If a new type is entering service, the manufacturer will stage demo tours through the region. The manufacturer sometimes also invites customer cabin crew to "operate" on these flights, actually using the galleys and serving, etc...

Route proving is important to give ground staff, cabing crew and others, a bit more of a hands-on feel than you would get from just abstracts.

For example here is the A350 on a couple of Asia demo tours and route proving flights before EIS.
- https://youtu.be/DsE9POJ03sI
- https://youtu.be/0ptBppaQYjc
- https://youtu.be/BAm4l6lSSTs

N1120A wrote:

Airlines don't employ test pilots. If their pilots are going to fly a plane, it will be in the process of getting a type rating for it. Purchases are done based on the published, verifiable test numbers the manufacturers put out and the overall fit into a fleet.

Many airlines employ test pilots. However, we're not talking Chuck Yeager style test piloting. They're line pilots who also perform things like equipment verification flights as needed.

Yeah, I didn't mean check airmen and other training pilots who break types in, I mean pilots who go in raw and fly the airplane without being trained by someone who is already rated to fly it. Boeing and Airbus employ true test pilots.

N1120A wrote:

Starlionblue wrote:

Airline representatives certainly get taken on demo flights and simulator sessions. If a new type is entering service, the manufacturer will stage demo tours through the region. The manufacturer sometimes also invites customer cabin crew to "operate" on these flights, actually using the galleys and serving, etc...

Route proving is important to give ground staff, cabing crew and others, a bit more of a hands-on feel than you would get from just abstracts.

For example here is the A350 on a couple of Asia demo tours and route proving flights before EIS.
- https://youtu.be/DsE9POJ03sI
- https://youtu.be/0ptBppaQYjc
- https://youtu.be/BAm4l6lSSTs

N1120A wrote:

Airlines don't employ test pilots. If their pilots are going to fly a plane, it will be in the process of getting a type rating for it. Purchases are done based on the published, verifiable test numbers the manufacturers put out and the overall fit into a fleet.

Many airlines employ test pilots. However, we're not talking Chuck Yeager style test piloting. They're line pilots who also perform things like equipment verification flights as needed.

Yeah, I didn't mean check airmen and other training pilots who break types in, I mean pilots who go in raw and fly the airplane without being trained by someone who is already rated to fly it. Boeing and Airbus employ true test pilots.

A test pilot is a pilot who tests the aircraft. Airline test pilots are more than "check airmen and other training pilots". They do perform tests, both on the ground and in flight.

There are many different flavours of test pilot. IMHO they're all "true test pilots".

aaden wrote:

Hello all,

I was wondering if airlines went on test flights or demo flights with new aircraft before making a purchase. I just wondered if say an airline wanted to explore making a purchase of a new aircraft type if they had pilots or some team of folks who tested out an A/C type themselves before purchasing it. Kinda like test driving a car…

Any insight would be great.

Pilots usually aren’t the ones making decisions on what new airplanes to buy. Flight deck configuration and training costs are part of a decision, but those usually are worked out when the airplane is configured after ordering it.

It’s not unheard of for the chief pilot of an airline to get to fly on an airplane before an airline purchases it. A contingent of people from the airline can travel to the manufacturer to do this or sometimes airplanes do world tours.

There is a relatively famous incident when an A330 crashed during the flight test program with two Alitalia pilots on board.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_ ... Flight_129

Pilots do test fly an aircraft before taking delivery of a new aircraft. Write up a squawk sheet of items to be resolved before the aircraft is transferred from the manufacturer to the airline.

On one delivery test flight the depressurization didn’t keep the cabin below 15000 like it was supposed to so we wrote that up before we accepted the aircraft. On another test flight all of the laminate on the cabin trim and seats fell off the walls so we delayed delivery until they could replace the cabin trim.

There is usually a team of mechanics and pilots at the delivery center to take care of the mundane process of getting the aircraft into the maintenance program of the airline before it leaves the delivery center.

N1120A wrote:

Airlines don't employ test pilots.

My airline (US3) definitely does.

Woodreau wrote:

Pilots do test fly an aircraft before taking delivery of a new aircraft. Write up a squawk sheet of items to be resolved before the aircraft is transferred from the manufacturer to the airline.

On one delivery test flight the depressurization didn’t keep the cabin below 15000 like it was supposed to so we wrote that up before we accepted the aircraft. On another test flight all of the laminate on the cabin trim and seats fell off the walls so we delayed delivery until they could replace the cabin trim.

There is usually a team of mechanics and pilots at the delivery center to take care of the mundane process of getting the aircraft into the maintenance program of the airline before it leaves the delivery center.

I've done such work, we called them acceptance test flights. The first one I did resulted in enough discrepancies to take 4 days to repair. The second airplane had 2 days worth of write-ups, the third had just one day's worth. As you can see, it was quite the learning curve.

My airline didn't seem to care much about what the pilots thought of the planes they were buying. They bought when they believed that the airplane could be used to make a profit - a tool, like any other business tool.

Airlines call also wet lease a potential new type for a few months to see the actual operational performance throughout the route network.

Depends on airline with what acceptance policies - some will have a dedicated test pilot group whose job is solely doing aircraft checkouts, while some are line pilots being brought over to perform flights with additional duties.

I have worked with some test pilots and got to say they know the aircraft like the back of their hands, and will do things that normal pilots won't even dare doing! (shutting down one engine mid-flight and perform windmill restart, turning off all electrical generators or hydraulic pumps...) Great fun working with them I have got to say!