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cv990Coronado
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QF 64 JNBSYD ETOPS

Fri Jan 07, 2022 10:41 am

I am pleased to see the reintroduction of services between Johannesburg and Sydney, which now operates with a 789, as they no longer use the 747.
Looking at the routing on flightawire.com, the flight takes a Southern routing over the Southern Indian ocean. Previously some years ago, Virgin Australia used to operate Melbourne Johannesburg with a 77W. To my knowledge, this was the only twin from Eastern Australia to Johannesburg. The Virgin flight would hug the Australian coast to Perth and then head out in a slightly Northwest direction for ETOPS requirements.
Have the ETOPS rules changed as the current routing of QF64 is overwater most of the way? It does overfly the Kerguelen Islands (French Southern and Antarctic Lands), but to my knowledge, there isn't any airfield there. Has there been a special dispensation for this flight? It seems an incredibly long way to fly on one engine over what must be some of the most desolate and hostile oceans on the planet.

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/ ... /FAOR/YSSY
 
eamondzhang
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Re: QF 64 JNBSYD ETOPS

Fri Jan 07, 2022 10:57 am

My understanding is when VA flew the route CASA would literally not allow any ETOPS>180 flyings, and hence the significant detour. VA's MEL-JNB from memory took a full hour more than QF's SYD-JNB due to these ETOPS detour. These have changed dramatically and I believe QF at least has ETOPS>240 approval for 789 fleet - if it's not ETOPS330.

Michael
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: QF 64 JNBSYD ETOPS

Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:06 pm

I believe (but could be wrong) that Qantas have EDTO330 for the 787 fleet.

CASA has only recently relented on its EDTO180 position. CASA restricted both Qantas and Virgin Australia to only EDTO180 long after everyone else, including NZCAA, were granting EDTO240 and EDTO330. CASA finally relented in 2016 IIRC, too late for Virgin's JNB service but soon enough for Qantas to operate the 787 to JNB and SCL.

While they would have to go through an approval process, Virgin would also be granted EDTO >180 if they ever want/need it in the future.

For the record, Australia - North America is well within 180, which is a big part of the reason why there wasn't a big push for regulatory change sooner.
 
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cv990Coronado
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Re: QF 64 JNBSYD ETOPS

Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:13 pm

Thanks 'RyanairGuru'; that is then EDTO330 = 5 hours 30 mins on one engine over the Southern Ocean? WOW! Midway on the route, what would be the alternate airports, do you know?
 
TC957
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Re: QF 64 JNBSYD ETOPS

Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:29 pm

cv990Coronado wrote:
Thanks 'RyanairGuru'; that is then EDTO330 = 5 hours 30 mins on one engine over the Southern Ocean? WOW! Midway on the route, what would be the alternate airports, do you know?

Since there's nothing but water there, it'll have to be either back to PER, up to MRU or onwards to DUR.
 
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cv990Coronado
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Re: QF 64 JNBSYD ETOPS

Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:59 pm

@TC957 Yes, that is what I thought. A very long way on one engine. Absolutely no possibility of a 'Sully type landing' in the Southern Ocean.
 
airbazar
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Re: QF 64 JNBSYD ETOPS

Fri Jan 07, 2022 1:06 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
CASA has only recently relented on its EDTO180 position. CASA restricted both Qantas and Virgin Australia to only EDTO180 long after everyone else


As some people predicted, CASA would relent on it once QF was ready to fly the route with a twin.
 
x1234
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Re: QF 64 JNBSYD ETOPS

Fri Jan 07, 2022 2:28 pm

LATAM has ETOPS 330 for SCL-AKL/SYD/MEL and I assume QF too. The GENX is highly reliable like the GE90 on the 777. Most kinks have been worked out.
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: QF 64 JNBSYD ETOPS

Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:46 pm

cv990Coronado wrote:
Thanks 'RyanairGuru'; that is then EDTO330 = 5 hours 30 mins on one engine over the Southern Ocean? WOW! Midway on the route, what would be the alternate airports, do you know?


The single-engine case isn't typically the most critical thing for EDTO. The remaining engine will keep running until it runs out of fuel or oil. Cargo fire suppression is typically the limiting factor.

If you are 5½ hours to the nearest alternate, it doesn't really matter if you're over the Southern Ocean or not. ;)
 
kalvado
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Re: QF 64 JNBSYD ETOPS

Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:05 am

Starlionblue wrote:
cv990Coronado wrote:
Thanks 'RyanairGuru'; that is then EDTO330 = 5 hours 30 mins on one engine over the Southern Ocean? WOW! Midway on the route, what would be the alternate airports, do you know?


The single-engine case isn't typically the most critical thing for EDTO. The remaining engine will keep running until it runs out of fuel or oil. Cargo fire suppression is typically the limiting factor.

If you are 5½ hours to the nearest alternate, it doesn't really matter if you're over the Southern Ocean or not. ;)

Is there any other spot on Earth, besides southern ocean, where you can be 5.5 hours away from landing site?
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: QF 64 JNBSYD ETOPS

Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:09 am

kalvado wrote:
Starlionblue wrote:
cv990Coronado wrote:
Thanks 'RyanairGuru'; that is then EDTO330 = 5 hours 30 mins on one engine over the Southern Ocean? WOW! Midway on the route, what would be the alternate airports, do you know?


The single-engine case isn't typically the most critical thing for EDTO. The remaining engine will keep running until it runs out of fuel or oil. Cargo fire suppression is typically the limiting factor.

If you are 5½ hours to the nearest alternate, it doesn't really matter if you're over the Southern Ocean or not. ;)

Is there any other spot on Earth, besides southern ocean, where you can be 5.5 hours away from landing site?


I suppose that depends on how low your one engine cruise speed is. ;)

Jokes aside, I'm not actually sure.
 
vikkyvik
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Re: QF 64 JNBSYD ETOPS

Sat Jan 08, 2022 3:35 pm

cv990Coronado wrote:
Looking at the routing on flightawire.com, the flight takes a Southern routing over the Southern Indian ocean.


How much of that route shown on Flightaware is even accurate? I assume the green areas near the continents are accurate (presumably within radar coverage), but the white line over the ocean just looks like a great circle line, drawn to connect the ends of the green lines. I presume we don't know its exact track over the ocean.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: QF 64 JNBSYD ETOPS

Sat Jan 08, 2022 3:56 pm

Starlionblue wrote:
cv990Coronado wrote:
Thanks 'RyanairGuru'; that is then EDTO330 = 5 hours 30 mins on one engine over the Southern Ocean? WOW! Midway on the route, what would be the alternate airports, do you know?


The single-engine case isn't typically the most critical thing for EDTO. The remaining engine will keep running until it runs out of fuel or oil. Cargo fire suppression is typically the limiting factor.

If you are 5½ hours to the nearest alternate, it doesn't really matter if you're over the Southern Ocean or not. ;)



It might matter a whole lot, if going for a swim to raft is in your near future! Ha Ha.

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