Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
thebunkerparodi
Topic Author
Posts: 166
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:45 am

aerospatiale A200 from the 1980'?

Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:39 am

Hello, would it be possible to have more information of the project? it look a lot like the A320 and seem to be base on a A300 with CFM 56 engine http://theairchive.net/aerospatiale-memorabilia/

Thanks for your answers!
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 21060
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

Re: aerospatiale A200 from the 1980'?

Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:01 pm

There was a lot of information in this book I used to have. If memory serves, the A200 project was one of the origins of the A300. It was merged into the project alongside a British concept if memory serves.


Image
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14893
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: aerospatiale A200 from the 1980'?

Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:08 pm

thebunkerparodi wrote:
Hello, would it be possible to have more information of the project? it look a lot like the A320 and seem to be base on a A300 with CFM 56 engine http://theairchive.net/aerospatiale-memorabilia/

Thanks for your answers!


I would think this is just supposed to mean they where going to use as many A300 systems as made sense, not basing on the model. Looks more like a Dassault Mercure 200 derivate, but seems like that is just superficial.

http://aviationtrivia.blogspot.com/2010 ... -a320.html

best regards
Thomas
 
User avatar
thebunkerparodi
Topic Author
Posts: 166
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:45 am

Re: aerospatiale A200 from the 1980'?

Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:33 pm

I compared it with the heller A320 and it looked a lot like a A320 with some difference (can totally make one out of the heller kit without much modifcation)
 
masi1157
Posts: 549
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:56 am

Re: aerospatiale A200 from the 1980'?

Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:55 pm

Starlionblue wrote:
If memory serves, the A200 project was one of the origins of the A300. It was merged into the project alongside a British concept if memory serves.


The A300 is mentioned in the link ("Maximum commonality with the A300B"), so this A200 brochure must be jounger. If I remember well (ok, I came into the game a few years later) it is a study of what later became the A320.


Gruß, masi1157
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 21060
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

Re: aerospatiale A200 from the 1980'?

Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:47 pm

masi1157 wrote:
Starlionblue wrote:
If memory serves, the A200 project was one of the origins of the A300. It was merged into the project alongside a British concept if memory serves.


The A300 is mentioned in the link ("Maximum commonality with the A300B"), so this A200 brochure must be jounger. If I remember well (ok, I came into the game a few years later) it is a study of what later became the A320.


Gruß, masi1157


Ah cool. Thanks for info.
 
Clydenairways
Posts: 1448
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:27 am

Re: aerospatiale A200 from the 1980'?

Wed Jan 12, 2022 5:00 pm

It really does look like a Mercure with CFM engines. A forerunner of the eventual A320 which i always considered to have roots in the Mercure.
 
masi1157
Posts: 549
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:56 am

Re: aerospatiale A200 from the 1980'?

Wed Jan 12, 2022 8:13 pm

Clydenairways wrote:
It really does look like a Mercure with CFM engines. A forerunner of the eventual A320 which i always considered to have roots in the Mercure.


The Mercure was made by Dassault, but this study is from Aerospatiale. They are/were both french, but different companies. I'm not so sure Aerospatiale would use Dassault's Mercure as a base to develop an A320-forerunner.


Gruß, masi1157
 
User avatar
mercure1
Posts: 5518
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

Re: aerospatiale A200 from the 1980'?

Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:45 pm

Its a bit complex, but here is a high-level explanation.

First, the Mercure was initially to be named the Mercure 100, and Mercure 200 was to be a follow on a design proposed with two Snecma/General Electric CFM56 engines to meet an Air France in 1975.

Separately, Aerospatiale also had a project called AS.200 with CFM engines later renamed A200A&B and by 1977 created the basis for A320 and become a formal Airbus project.

The Mercure 200 died as we know and Dassault had held talks with both Douglas and Lockheed to build a model jointly, but as one of the 7 primary aerospace partners for Airbus in mid 1970s had input into what would be the A320.

masi1157 wrote:
The Mercure was made by Dassault, but this study is from Aerospatiale. They are/were both french, but different companies. I'm not so sure Aerospatiale would use Dassault's Mercure as a base to develop an A320-forerunner.


Since 1960 France pushed defense/aerospace companies to consolidate and work together leading way to eventual EADS/Airbus, so in many ways while competitors, companies worked together on national projects, particularly as the funding was coming from the government.

As far as Mercure direct impact on Airbus projects, for example the Mercure cockpit was the basis of the A300 cockpit. Also the initial basis of the A300 was the Galion project by Dassault and Sud-Aviation.
 
masi1157
Posts: 549
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:56 am

Re: aerospatiale A200 from the 1980'?

Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:56 am

Sure, Dassault and Aerospatiale were in more or less close, and sometimes forced, cooperation. In that cooperation Aerospatiale had access to some of the intellectual property of Dassault. But I'm sure both had their own set of intellectual property that the other one had no access to. So Aerospatiale could not simply take the whole of Mercure and develop something own from it. They could and surely did use many aspects and concepts of it.


Gruß, masi1157
 
User avatar
mercure1
Posts: 5518
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

Re: aerospatiale A200 from the 1980'?

Thu Jan 13, 2022 11:19 pm

masi1157 wrote:
Sure, Dassault and Aerospatiale were in more or less close, and sometimes forced, cooperation. In that cooperation Aerospatiale had access to some of the intellectual property of Dassault. But I'm sure both had their own set of intellectual property that the other one had no access to. So Aerospatiale could not simply take the whole of Mercure and develop something own from it. They could and surely did use many aspects and concepts of it.


I think you missed the point. The Dassault Mercure and Aerospatiale AS.200 were independent projects. The AS.200 had 2,3, and 4 engine concepts for example, while Mercure 200 was always a 2-engine concept.

However, later on, as the project evolved into the foundation of the A320 it was renamed A200A & A200B where Dassault and other partners had input.
 
masi1157
Posts: 549
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:56 am

Re: aerospatiale A200 from the 1980'?

Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:33 am

mercure1 wrote:
I think you missed the point.


Basically you said just the same as I tried to say: The Aerospatiale A200 shown in the study above is not a derivative of Dassault's Mercure. It is a development by Aerospatiale to which Dassault has inputs (as you said) or which uses some of Dassault's intellectual property that Aerospatiale had access to (as I would say).


Gruß, masi1157
 
hitower3
Posts: 286
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:55 am

Re: aerospatiale A200 from the 1980'?

Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:50 am

Dear all,

I once tried to find out if there was any "Dassault Mercure genes" to be found in the A320 genealogy. I researched the fuselage diameter and found different values for the A320 (3,95m / 13ft) and the Mercure (3,89m / 12ft10in), which is an indication of unrelated designs.

With regards,
Hendric
 
SteelChair
Posts: 1825
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:37 am

Re: aerospatiale A200 from the 1980'?

Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:15 pm

As someone who was originally not much of a fan of Airbus, it is fascinating to me how "right" this design was for 1975.

It's also a reminder that to be technically right (right size, balanced design, correct level of technology, modern engines) is not enough. These companies (Aerospatiale, Dassault), kind of like McDD and Lockheed, simply didn't have the power in the marketplace to bring the project to fruition. It took them grouping together with other companies (and government launch aid) to gain traction, and even then took quite awhile to seriously challenge Boeing.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: GalaxyFlyer and 14 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos