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Re: RTO for impending fire

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 10:31 am
by IanfromRussia
Starlionblue wrote:
IanfromRussia wrote:
Thanks to everybody! :))
Can now anybody advise me whether it is in the limits of human capability to retard throttles quick enough to stay on the runway if an engine seizes (not just spools down!) at or just before Vmcg?
Specifically, in the cases 1) if the runway is 1) dry and 2) if it is wet?


Yes, it is within the limits of human capability. Otherwise, the aircraft would not be certified. There's verbiage like "pilot of normal skill" or something in the regs.

Vmcg would change depending on whether the runway is wet, dry, or contaminated. Either way the aircraft must be manageable.


But I bet it is not too far from the limits of an "average pilot".

Re: RTO for impending fire

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:25 pm
by Starlionblue
IanfromRussia wrote:
Starlionblue wrote:
IanfromRussia wrote:
Thanks to everybody! :))
Can now anybody advise me whether it is in the limits of human capability to retard throttles quick enough to stay on the runway if an engine seizes (not just spools down!) at or just before Vmcg?
Specifically, in the cases 1) if the runway is 1) dry and 2) if it is wet?


Yes, it is within the limits of human capability. Otherwise, the aircraft would not be certified. There's verbiage like "pilot of normal skill" or something in the regs.

Vmcg would change depending on whether the runway is wet, dry, or contaminated. Either way the aircraft must be manageable.


But I bet it is not too far from the limits of an "average pilot".


The regulators seem comfortable with it. Also, now many events of running off the side of the runway due to an engine failure can you find since WWII?`

Re: RTO for impending fire

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:36 pm
by GalaxyFlyer
More trenchantly, how many jet engine failures at the specified Vef, latest amendment, period. Yes, I know we train for worst case.

Re: RTO for impending fire

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:22 pm
by zeke
IanfromRussia wrote:

But I bet it is not too far from the limits of an "average pilot".


A couple of “average” chaps doing what “average” chaps train for

https://youtu.be/PS1YAX70edc

Re: RTO for impending fire

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:37 pm
by Woodreau
Here you go. Engine failure occurred below v1. For some reason the crew didn’t realize they had a failed engine below V1 and took off resulting in the crash.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_U. ... -130_crash

Re: RTO for impending fire

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:09 pm
by GalaxyFlyer
Almost a jet, thoroughly cocked up by the crew. Herks do windmilling engine starts and 3-engine take-offs, so hard to understand. Windmilling start involves high speed taxi to windmill start one engine, essentially a 3-engine take-off that doesn’t fly. Certainly, “go oriented”.

Re: RTO for impending fire

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:57 pm
by IanfromRussia
zeke wrote:
IanfromRussia wrote:

But I bet it is not too far from the limits of an "average pilot".


A couple of “average” chaps doing what “average” chaps train for

https://youtu.be/PS1YAX70edc

THANK YOU VERY MUCH! :)
That's great! That's just what I'm looking for.

Re: RTO for impending fire

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:39 pm
by Starlionblue
IanfromRussia wrote:
zeke wrote:
IanfromRussia wrote:

But I bet it is not too far from the limits of an "average pilot".


A couple of “average” chaps doing what “average” chaps train for

https://youtu.be/PS1YAX70edc

THANK YOU VERY MUCH! :)
That's great! That's just what I'm looking for.


You can gauge the reaction time between the engine going bang and the rudder being deflected. From bang to full deflection takes just over a second, which includes both reaction time and actual pedal input. (I roughly timed it by running the video at 1/5 speed.)

Re: RTO for impending fire

Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:14 am
by BoeingGuy
Starlionblue wrote:
IanfromRussia wrote:
zeke wrote:

A couple of “average” chaps doing what “average” chaps train for

https://youtu.be/PS1YAX70edc

THANK YOU VERY MUCH! :)
That's great! That's just what I'm looking for.


You can gauge the reaction time between the engine going bang and the rudder being deflected. From bang to full deflection takes just over a second, which includes both reaction time and actual pedal input. (I roughly timed it by running the video at 1/5 speed.)


Doesn’t the A330 have some kind of Thrust Asymmetry Compensation that puts in rudder automatically in that case?

Re: RTO for impending fire

Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:43 am
by zeke
BoeingGuy wrote:
Doesn’t the A330 have some kind of Thrust Asymmetry Compensation that puts in rudder automatically in that case?


No