Like the topic says, short and simple:
Deicing while engines are on idle, yay or nay?
Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
Re: DE-icing while idle
It's allowed and done in many airports, for example Munich.
Re: DE-icing while idle
Deicing checklist allows either option.
Engines idle, APU off is the preferred option.
Either way packs are off during deicing and anti icing.
Engines idle, APU off is the preferred option.
Either way packs are off during deicing and anti icing.
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- Sancho99504
- Posts: 1091
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Re: DE-icing while idle
When deicing an aircraft while engines are running isn't much different than engines off. Big thing is to make sure when clearing snow and ice from the engine cover is to not spray directly into the engine.
Re: DE-icing while idle
De-icing with engines idle is no big deal. You just need to make sure Dispatch has accounted for the additional fuel burn in the extra fuel column of the flight plan.
Packs and APU Bleed valves need to be off and shut though.
Packs and APU Bleed valves need to be off and shut though.
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- Twistedwhisper
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Re: DE-icing while idle
Thank you for your swift responses. We're going to start a test with a de-icing pad but there are some people who are raising concerns about this procedure on an aircraft that has engines on idle.
We will go ahead and check with the airlines if they have procedures for this, and also talk to tech-ops people at the manufactureres
We will go ahead and check with the airlines if they have procedures for this, and also talk to tech-ops people at the manufactureres
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- shamrock137
- Posts: 465
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Re: DE-icing while idle
Twistedwhisper wrote:Thank you for your swift responses. We're going to start a test with a de-icing pad but there are some people who are raising concerns about this procedure on an aircraft that has engines on idle.
We will go ahead and check with the airlines if they have procedures for this, and also talk to tech-ops people at the manufactureres
What types of aircraft will you be deicing? Pads with engines idle work well, but there are some safety hazards and a few small disadvantages depending on your equipment. As bigb mentioned, make sure the flight gets filled with enough fuel to support a long taxi. Places I've worked have had a split of some on gate and some on pad, we would plan to deice fuel critical flights on the gate. From a physical deicing perspective, sometimes it can be hard to pre position trucks depending on the pad size or layout. For example, if you were using a 4 truck setup, ideally you would want the trucks to be able to park with the bucket facing the aircraft, and have enough clearance where the aircraft can taxi in, and the trucks can drive right up to their spray areas, without having to come from a staging area.
From an actual deicing perspective, you wont get much use of the ground hose, if you're trucks have one, since most of the wing will be in the danger zone of the engine. Keep that in mind if you're in an area that sees lots of icicles hanging from the bottom of the wing or fuselage.
Re: DE-icing while idle
Why not. We have 2 checklists on the 737; one for de-icing with engines off and one for engines running. Bleeds and Packs are off and in both cases they will only get switched on after a 1 minute period to clear any vapors. And in some places you need to have engines running to takeoff before your holdover time expires.
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- SoCalPilot
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Re: DE-icing while idle
The Saab 340 was a pain when it came to deicing...start up #2, deice the left side, start up #1, shut down #2, deice the right side, and then restart #2.
Re: DE-icing while idle
SoCalPilot wrote:The Saab 340 was a pain when it came to deicing...start up #2, deice the left side, start up #1, shut down #2, deice the right side, and then restart #2.
"Hot" deicing on turboprops was never a favourite activity of mine. We did it extensively on the Boeings but with VERY strict communications procedures when talking to "SNO-MAN" . The strictness of those comms were a result of a fatal accident at Mirabel/CYMX in the late 1980's or early 1990's when the large aircraft (can't remember the type) "assumed" deicing was complete then started taxiing while the deicing rig was still doing the tail. The cab crew died when the rig toppled over.
It was quite easy to stay away from the jet inlets and exhaust while hot deicing in those situations. On a turbo prop, it's a lot more difficult to avoid the big spinning props. When I operated the BA-41 (which I not so affectionately refer to as a POS), the company insisted we use engines on deicing. On a dark and stormy night, not unheard of in eastern Canada ops, that was an immensely hazardous activity and I wouldn't do it. It was a real pain to shut one, then the other down as described by SoCalPilot but immensely safer!
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- Thenoflyzone
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Re: DE-icing while idle
Yikes! wrote:
"Hot" deicing on turboprops was never a favourite activity of mine. We did it extensively on the Boeings but with VERY strict communications procedures when talking to "SNO-MAN" . The strictness of those comms were a result of a fatal accident at Mirabel/CYMX in the late 1980's or early 1990's when the large aircraft (can't remember the type) "assumed" deicing was complete then started taxiing while the deicing rig was still doing the tail. The cab crew died when the rig toppled over.
21 January 1995. Royal Air Maroc B744. 2 de-icing vehicles with cherry pickers were thrown to the ground when the aircraft started moving, thinking de-icing was complete. It wasn’t. 3 people died.
Link to official Canadian TSB report.
https://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-repo ... q0015.html
Pic from database after the event.