Do commercial aircraft ever land on RW 13 at LaGuardia? If not, is it because it would mean flying over the buildings on Manhattan? On FlightAware I often see landing commercial flight follow the Hudson River and then it seems like they turn around the I-95 bridge and finally turn to a final approach to RW22. I think there are commercial pilots on here who have flown or fly into LGA a lot. Am I wrong about what I said about RW 13. Can't imagine a plane would fly along the Hudson and then turn final to RW 13. But perhaps I am wrong.

If you’re flying over the Hudson River and LGA is landing on 22 and launching off 13, the ATC instruction is “cleared direct to Verrazano bridge fly up the Hudson”

Further up the Hudson you get radar vectored to either join the localizer for 22 or you’re cleared for the visual 22.

If LGA is launching 31 then you’re radar vectored for the left downwind for 22.

It’s rare for a landing on 13. There is the charted River visual 13 to fly up the Hudson and then north of Central Park turn over Columbia university to land on 13. There is a localizer to follow as well. But I’ve never seen it used.

Is that because of 9/11?

I've landed on 13 multiple times, it does happen. Sometimes via an approach to 13, sometimes they'll do an approach to 22 circle to 13.

Yes, there charted 13 approaches into LGA. There is River Visual and ILS approaches. The ILS 13 approach is almost never used unless weather forces JFK to use ILS 13R. River Visual approach is used sometimes in the summer if the winds necessitate it and Runway 4/22 is closed. I don't think I've ever seen it used in conjunction with 4 takeoffs and I don't believe there is a published procedure for that configuration, but I could be wrong. And its lack of use isn't because of Manhattan overflight, but due to the way it affects EWR and TEB operations since it goes along their airspace boundaries at a lower altitude. The ILS approach is especially bad for the other two airports.

https://flightaware.com/resources/airpo ... LOC+RWY+13

https://flightaware.com/resources/airpo ... UAL+RWY+13

And here is a video of the River Visual approach.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnhwzj6FIvg

leader1 wrote:

The ILS 13 approach is almost never used unless weather forces JFK to use ILS 13R.

I assume you mean the ILS 13L.

AirKevin wrote:

leader1 wrote:

The ILS 13 approach is almost never used unless weather forces JFK to use ILS 13R.

I assume you mean the ILS 13L.

YES! my bad. I realized it too late and was unable to edit it.

13R has no ILS approach.

AirKevin wrote:

leader1 wrote:

The ILS 13 approach is almost never used unless weather forces JFK to use ILS 13R.

I assume you mean the ILS 13L.

Yes, and this usually slows down JFK to a slow crawl at best. Seen it multiple times with very strong winds out of the southeast, but it's relatively rare.

I’ve definitely seen 13 used, but it was very rare.

convair880mfan wrote:

Is that because of 9/11?

Lol, no. It is because LGA is in a pretty terrible location that creates major problems for the operations at JFK, EWR and TEB - particularly if winds dictate landing 13.

convair880mfan wrote:

Is that because of 9/11?

When is the last time you flew into LGA?

You want to see why they avoid landing 13 at LGA, if at all possible? Watch this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zs2BAjgfOvU

N1120A wrote:

You want to see why they avoid landing 13 at LGA, if at all possible? Watch this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zs2BAjgfOvU

What does a Lufthansa A380 not being able to land at JFK have anything to do with landing runway 13 at LGA.

AirKevin wrote:

N1120A wrote:

You want to see why they avoid landing 13 at LGA, if at all possible? Watch this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zs2BAjgfOvU

What does a Lufthansa A380 not being able to land at JFK have anything to do with landing runway 13 at LGA.

The reason was LGA had to use 13, which creates major issues using 13 at JFK

N1120A wrote:

AirKevin wrote:

N1120A wrote:

You want to see why they avoid landing 13 at LGA, if at all possible? Watch this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zs2BAjgfOvU

What does a Lufthansa A380 not being able to land at JFK have anything to do with landing runway 13 at LGA.

The reason was LGA had to use 13, which creates major issues using 13 at JFK

Okay, but how would you know that LGA was using 13 just from watching the video. Only thing I heard the controller mention was TEB being shut down.

AirKevin wrote:

N1120A wrote:

AirKevin wrote:

What does a Lufthansa A380 not being able to land at JFK have anything to do with landing runway 13 at LGA.

The reason was LGA had to use 13, which creates major issues using 13 at JFK

Okay, but how would you know that LGA was using 13 just from watching the video. Only thing I heard the controller mention was TEB being shut down.

While I didn’t hear anything revolving around LGA in the video, the only way TEB would be shut down is if LGA was using the ILS 13 approach. But they wouldn’t be using that unless JFK was using ILS 13L, which they weren’t.

All four airports EWR, TEB, LGA, JFK are interconnected and so any runway use changes affect all 4 airports.

Using 13 for landings at LGA or 13L/R at JFK forces other airports to change configuration which impacts arrival and departure rates.

I guess some reading suggestions for the OP

https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/nas/nyn ... Report.pdf

https://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle ... sequence=2

I've done 13 before, you fly basically up the Hudson then they give a left 270 turn to join the ILS. Just a different view of the airport when you see it. I recall doing it the day before the DL MD88 went off the side of 13 landing in the snow.

tb727 wrote:

I've done 13 before, you fly basically up the Hudson then they give a left 270 turn to join the ILS. Just a different view of the airport when you see it. I recall doing it the day before the DL MD88 went off the side of 13 landing in the snow.

That sounds more like the River Visual 13, where you truck up the Hudson and take a 90 degree turn to join the final into 13. When they go ILS 13 the final stretches out by TEB and functionally breaks JFK. I believe it also forces EWR into a configuration change.

The 1-2 days a year that it's hard IMC and gusty from the southeast are the worst in New York aviation.

bluecrew wrote:

tb727 wrote:

I've done 13 before, you fly basically up the Hudson then they give a left 270 turn to join the ILS. Just a different view of the airport when you see it. I recall doing it the day before the DL MD88 went off the side of 13 landing in the snow.

That sounds more like the River Visual 13, where you truck up the Hudson and take a 90 degree turn to join the final into 13. When they go ILS 13 the final stretches out by TEB and functionally breaks JFK. I believe it also forces EWR into a configuration change.

The 1-2 days a year that it's hard IMC and gusty from the southeast are the worst in New York aviation.

lol it def wasn't the visual, it was one of those hard IMC days.

Speaking of the devil...LGA is currently using ILS 13.

https://flightaware.com/live/airport/KLGA

https://www.fly.faa.gov/adv/adv_otherdi ... 02/22/2022

Update: switching to landing on 4.

Looks like OP dropped off the thread again...

Just want to add that I stand corrected. LGA was using Runway 4 this morning for takeoffs in conjunction with Runway 13 landings. From my experience, when 13 is used for landings, 4/22 is closed for maintenance or the winds are so strong that you're down to single runway ops.

Here are LGA's published arrival rates with different runway configurations. And there is a published AAR with with 13 arrivals using 4 departures. I don't recall seeing it before, but I notice this page was recently updated, so maybe it's new.

https://www.fly.faa.gov/Information/eas ... ga_aar.htm

FYI LGA is landing on 13 as of this post.

Yep. Fly up the Hudson past the 13 localizer 3 left turns to intercept.

Too bad it’s only cat I 1800 RVR mins

Woodreau wrote:

Yep. Fly up the Hudson past the 13 localizer 3 left turns to intercept.

Too bad it’s only cat I 1800 RVR mins

Yea it keeps going between 16 and 1800, some are catching a window while its 18 and making it in, most are not.

It was quite frustrating to shoot the ILS 13 three times, going around each time after holding over western central and eastern Pennsylvania for over an hour and then having to divert after all of that effort. Just didn’t have enough fuel to outlast the weather. Lol

Really needed the 1200 RVR or 1000 RVR SA that is available for 22 yesterday.

I guess the controllers werent playing along….

What minimums do need?

1800

(What sometimes happens). Got some updated weather. Well what do you know, runway one three RVR now reading eighteen hundred…

(What really happened) rwy one three RVR showing sixteen hundred

Umptyfratz 123 going around…


Kind of like Aspen’s “instantaneous winds”. Winds 150/18 gusting to 28, instantaneous winds 150/10 cleared for take off runway three three.

Lol