Noticed that Eurowings' brand new A320Neo D-AENA has landing lights on its belly fairing similar to that of the A220 rather than the traditional pop-out landing lights from under the wings. I believe this may be the first time Airbus has done this on the A320 family? Most likely to reduce drag.

Images and video below:
https://aibfamily.flights/A320/10758
https://www.planespotters.net/photo/125 ... -a320-251n
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZEuyum2lR0

AllNippon767 wrote:

Noticed that Eurowings' brand new A320Neo D-AENA has landing lights on its belly fairing similar to that of the A220 rather than the traditional pop-out landing lights from under the wings. I believe this may be the first time Airbus has done this on the A320 family? Most likely to reduce drag.

Images and video below:
https://aibfamily.flights/A320/10758
https://www.planespotters.net/photo/125 ... -a320-251n
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZEuyum2lR0

According to Eurospot, who uploaded the Youtube video, it is need the first one, see https://mobile.twitter.com/cliper31/sta ... 5098479623

The new ones seem great for reducing drag, must be better than the predecessor too for illumination as they are located much ahead..
I hope Airbus have changed the beam to neutral white.
The current LED ones on A320N bite the eye if viewed head on.

StereoTechque wrote:

The new ones seem great for reducing drag, must be better than the predecessor too for illumination as they are located much ahead..
I hope Airbus have changed the beam to neutral white.
The current LED ones on A320N bite the eye if viewed head on.

Italian speed brakes are no more! On a similar note, I do seem to remember a video by an AA MD80 pilot Kent Wein who described the use of the extendable landing lights on the wingtips, which would help give a bit of extra drag during the descent if needed. 4:10 onwards in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7R0CViDUBFs

It will be very interesting to see how this A320Neo at night in comparison. I wonder if this is due to become the norm or if it's just a new option? Perhaps older A320s could be retrofitted if need be if the saving on drag does prove to be significant enough in the future.

From an operator point of view, I think one of the biggest advantages in relocating the landing lights on the A320 series would be the elimination of vibration when extended. While there is no maximum airspeed associated with having the landing lights extended, there is a subtle vibration that is perceptible in the flight deck and cabin and the vibration increases substantially as airspeed increases above 250 KIAS. At my company, it is operational procedure to extinguish the landing lights (switch position: RETRACT) before increasing airspeed above 250 KIAS and delay extending them until below 250 KIAS.

I have never used the landing lights as a drag device in the A320 series and it is not taught nor recommended to use them for drag in our training curriculum.

StereoTechque wrote:

The new ones seem great for reducing drag, must be better than the predecessor too for illumination as they are located much ahead

StereoTechque, I'm not sure the short incremental distance in moving the lights to the belly fairing will actually make much difference in terms of illumination field. I have flown aircraft where the landing lights were at the wing root or adjacent to the main landing gear (Boeing/Airbus) as well as at the wingtip (McDonnell Douglas) and to be honest, I couldn't tell much difference in the scope of illumination. Regardless of position, there was adequate lighting for night operations.

e38

e38 wrote:

I have flown aircraft where the landing lights were at the wing root or adjacent to the main landing gear (Boeing/Airbus) as well as at the wingtip (McDonnell Douglas) and to be honest, I couldn't tell much difference in the scope of illumination.

e38

True. Look at B737MAX, All the lights in the wing root, still pretty nice flood of light upfront.

AllNippon767 wrote:

StereoTechque wrote:

The new ones seem great for reducing drag, must be better than the predecessor too for illumination as they are located much ahead..
I hope Airbus have changed the beam to neutral white.
The current LED ones on A320N bite the eye if viewed head on.

Italian speed brakes are no more! On a similar note, I do seem to remember a video by an AA MD80 pilot Kent Wein who described the use of the extendable landing lights on the wingtips, which would help give a bit of extra drag during the descent if needed. 4:10 onwards in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7R0CViDUBFs

It will be very interesting to see how this A320Neo at night in comparison. I wonder if this is due to become the norm or if it's just a new option? Perhaps older A320s could be retrofitted if need be if the saving on drag does prove to be significant enough in the future.

The A321XLR prototype MSN11000 also seems to have the new lights, see https://twitter.com/Tobias_Gudat/status ... 6134771714
I would guess that this is an option on the A320neo series for the time being, and will become the norm within a few years. Maybe it will be the norm for all A321XLRs?

I’ve noticed the new A321XLR also sports a new set of wing root lights, it looks like it’s replacing the nose gear and retractable lights. I’d imagine they’re going to function like the LED lights on the later 73NG and 737MAX. Is this going to be standard on all the A320NEO series?

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Airbus/ ... %2BQsjnC5b

How am I ever going to slow down now??

SXDFC wrote:

I’ve noticed the new A321XLR also sports a new set of wing root lights, it looks like it’s replacing the nose gear and retractable lights. I’d imagine they’re going to function like the LED lights on the later 73NG and 737MAX. Is this going to be standard on all the A320NEO series?

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Airbus/ ... %2BQsjnC5b

Apparently there was a thread on this all along.. It would be cool to see a video of them on at night..

tb727 wrote:

How am I ever going to slow down now??

FRED had retracting lights, forget to retract them at about F290 it became obvious climb slows dramatically. Extend one side at cruise and you could dip a wing, both take off a few knots, which at M.77 is significant

The MD80 had extendable landing lights on the wingtips


With an engine failure they automatically retracted, we were told this gave you an extra 125 fpm in climb rate !


Curiously there was no speed limit in their operation, whether extending or extended

That's pretty funny! It's the little things we pick up on. The Airbus doesn't have a limit either that I have seen. The Falcon 20 did and it was 220 knots. If you forgot, the mechanism broke and they would just be hanging there under the belly after landing....so I hear....

tb727 wrote:

That's pretty funny! It's the little things we pick up on. The Airbus doesn't have a limit either that I have seen. The Falcon 20 did and it was 220 knots. If you forgot, the mechanism broke and they would just be hanging there under the belly after landing....so I hear....

That is funny, I imagine they rumble a bit at higher speeds?!


Forgetting to retract them on the F20 sounds like an expensive mistake


Best wishes TB

Max Q wrote:

tb727 wrote:

That's pretty funny! It's the little things we pick up on. The Airbus doesn't have a limit either that I have seen. The Falcon 20 did and it was 220 knots. If you forgot, the mechanism broke and they would just be hanging there under the belly after landing....so I hear....

That is funny, I imagine they rumble a bit at higher speeds?!


Forgetting to retract them on the F20 sounds like an expensive mistake


Best wishes TB

Nah, they would just patch it together with parts from our mothballed fleet. They were mostly mad they would have to actually get their tools out and have to work!

So, from a pilot perspective: Are landing lights designed to help others see an approaching aircraft better or to see ahead once on the ground (I can't imagine they help illuminate much in the sky).

IFlyVeryLittle wrote:

So, from a pilot perspective: Are landing lights designed to help others see an approaching aircraft better or to see ahead once on the ground (I can't imagine they help illuminate much in the sky).

Both.
Landing lights are visible from quite far away at night, but obviously that's not a factor in IMC. Also in airline aviation flying under IMC "see and avoid" is not really applied as ATC provides separation and any traffic that is picked up by TCAS is displayed on the ND. The Airbus procedure is to switch on the landing lights at FL100, however at my current operator it is switched on when putting the gear down, except in night time and when operating in airspace E (where VFR traffic that is not in contact with ATC could be encountered).
The big reason is really a good illumination of the runway during flare, rollout and takeoff. Often the landing lights are switched on when receiving takeoff clearance which provides an indication that the aircraft will commence takeoff soon (which is an other line of defense to prevent runway incursions - if I got a clearance to cross and saw an aircraft lined up on the runway with the landing lights on I would reconfirm that crossing clearance).

IFlyVeryLittle wrote:

So, from a pilot perspective: Are landing lights designed to help others see an approaching aircraft better or to see ahead once on the ground (I can't imagine they help illuminate much in the sky).

As Flow2706 says, it's both to see and be seen. They're easily visible to crossing traffic in VMC.

Our SOP is:
- Strobes on when you enter the runway to when you exit a runway, whether you're just crossing or flying.
- Landing lights on from takeoff clearance to ten thousand feet, and from ten thousand feet on approach until you're off the runway. (Sometimes slightly modified so we don't shine them through the skulls of a crew holding on the opposite side, especially if they're something like a business or regional jet given the cockpit height difference.)

This is how the new landing lights look in the dark, quite nice. Very A220esque

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/10584894

AllNippon767 wrote:

This is how the new landing lights look in the dark, quite nice. Very A220esque

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/10584894

Very cool to see how much the same platform has evolved, when you compare pics, inside and out, of one of the first A320s to one of the brand new Neos.