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SQ32
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Posts: 114
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:18 pm

Can Singapore Airlines 253 seats A350 do SIN-NYC mission if they are 280T variant?

Mon Apr 11, 2022 8:22 am

It seems that A359 at 253 pax SQ configuration can fly SIN - NYC mission.

Assumption:

1. MTOW : 280T
2. OEW (lets define OEW here as MEW + cabin equipment + water + crew + food) : 140T
3. Fuel consumption: 5.84T per hour
4. Mass per pax : 100kg
5. Worse case NYC - SIN duration (including taxi): 19 hours

Hence calculation base on worst case is
Fuel carried = 280 - 140 - 25 = 115T
Flight time = 115 / 5.84 = 19.6 hours
 
hitower3
Posts: 299
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:55 am

Re: Can Singapore Airlines 253 seats A350 do SIN-NYC mission if they are 280T variant?

Mon Apr 11, 2022 2:33 pm

Dear SQ32,

0,6 hours of reserve fuel is just a little on the low side. :D
A contingency of 5% (5,6t) must be accounted for, plus diversion (a few tons), plus final reserve (3t).

Maybe your assumptions for OEW and flight time are a little on the high side.

Best regards,
hendric
 
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Starlionblue
Posts: 21103
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

Re: Can Singapore Airlines 253 seats A350 do SIN-NYC mission if they are 280T variant?

Tue Apr 12, 2022 12:05 am

hitower3 wrote:
Dear SQ32,

0,6 hours of reserve fuel is just a little on the low side. :D
A contingency of 5% (5,6t) must be accounted for, plus diversion (a few tons), plus final reserve (3t).

Maybe your assumptions for OEW and flight time are a little on the high side.

Best regards,
hendric


5% contingency is normally not required for this type of flight. Some sort of variable contingency depending on route and conditions is carried. Often several tonnes less than 5%.

0.5 hours of reserve fuel is carried, and typically diversion fuel is also no less than 0.5 hours even if the nearest airport is closer. Together, these two items would be six tonnes or less.
 
N1120A
Posts: 27290
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

Re: Can Singapore Airlines 253 seats A350 do SIN-NYC mission if they are 280T variant?

Tue Apr 12, 2022 12:12 am

Starlionblue wrote:
hitower3 wrote:
Dear SQ32,

0,6 hours of reserve fuel is just a little on the low side. :D
A contingency of 5% (5,6t) must be accounted for, plus diversion (a few tons), plus final reserve (3t).

Maybe your assumptions for OEW and flight time are a little on the high side.

Best regards,
hendric


5% contingency is normally not required for this type of flight. Some sort of variable contingency depending on route and conditions is carried. Often several tonnes less than 5%.

0.5 hours of reserve fuel is carried, and typically diversion fuel is also no less than 0.5 hours even if the nearest airport is closer. Together, these two items would be six tonnes or less.


IFR aircraft landing in the US require 45 minutes reserve plus whatever they need for an alternate.
 
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Starlionblue
Posts: 21103
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

Re: Can Singapore Airlines 253 seats A350 do SIN-NYC mission if they are 280T variant?

Tue Apr 12, 2022 2:13 am

N1120A wrote:
Starlionblue wrote:
hitower3 wrote:
Dear SQ32,

0,6 hours of reserve fuel is just a little on the low side. :D
A contingency of 5% (5,6t) must be accounted for, plus diversion (a few tons), plus final reserve (3t).

Maybe your assumptions for OEW and flight time are a little on the high side.

Best regards,
hendric


5% contingency is normally not required for this type of flight. Some sort of variable contingency depending on route and conditions is carried. Often several tonnes less than 5%.

0.5 hours of reserve fuel is carried, and typically diversion fuel is also no less than 0.5 hours even if the nearest airport is closer. Together, these two items would be six tonnes or less.


IFR aircraft landing in the US require 45 minutes reserve plus whatever they need for an alternate.


Isn't the turbine aircraft requirement 30 minutes? It's been a while since I flew into the US, but I can't remember seeing more than 30 minutes of final reserve.

But I could be wrong...
 
hitower3
Posts: 299
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:55 am

Re: Can Singapore Airlines 253 seats A350 do SIN-NYC mission if they are 280T variant?

Tue Apr 12, 2022 2:38 am

Starlionblue wrote:
N1120A wrote:
Starlionblue wrote:

5% contingency is normally not required for this type of flight. Some sort of variable contingency depending on route and conditions is carried. Often several tonnes less than 5%.

0.5 hours of reserve fuel is carried, and typically diversion fuel is also no less than 0.5 hours even if the nearest airport is closer. Together, these two items would be six tonnes or less.


IFR aircraft landing in the US require 45 minutes reserve plus whatever they need for an alternate.


Isn't the turbine aircraft requirement 30 minutes? It's been a while since I flew into the US, but I can't remember seeing more than 30 minutes of final reserve.

But I could be wrong...


I have 30min. in my mind, too. 45min for turboprops.
Hendric
 
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AirKevin
Posts: 1087
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:18 am

Re: Can Singapore Airlines 253 seats A350 do SIN-NYC mission if they are 280T variant?

Tue Apr 12, 2022 2:54 am

N1120A wrote:
Starlionblue wrote:
hitower3 wrote:
Dear SQ32,

0,6 hours of reserve fuel is just a little on the low side. :D
A contingency of 5% (5,6t) must be accounted for, plus diversion (a few tons), plus final reserve (3t).

Maybe your assumptions for OEW and flight time are a little on the high side.

Best regards,
hendric


5% contingency is normally not required for this type of flight. Some sort of variable contingency depending on route and conditions is carried. Often several tonnes less than 5%.

0.5 hours of reserve fuel is carried, and typically diversion fuel is also no less than 0.5 hours even if the nearest airport is closer. Together, these two items would be six tonnes or less.

IFR aircraft landing in the US require 45 minutes reserve plus whatever they need for an alternate.

I think the 45 minutes of reserve is for US domestic fuel regulations, which such a flight wouldn't fall under.
 
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SQ32
Topic Author
Posts: 114
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Re: Can Singapore Airlines 253 seats A350 do SIN-NYC mission if they are 280T variant?

Tue Apr 12, 2022 5:57 am

SQ21 NYC SIN is the tougher leg. The inauguration flight took 17.33 hours flight time (excluding Taxi) and burn 101T of fuel. We can extrapolate the 253 pax 280T also burn the same amount of fuel on typical good weather. On extreme bad weather, add one more hour of flight time. The aircraft will burn around 106T.

Assuming @253 pax. we can only load 115T of fuel, that still leave a lot of margin for reserve fuel.

In addition, SQ21 could limit pax to 230 on bad weather, allowing for more fuel to be uploaded.


https://samchui.com/2018/10/13/the-worl ... lURzshBxGM
Image
 
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zeke
Posts: 17265
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: Can Singapore Airlines 253 seats A350 do SIN-NYC mission if they are 280T variant?

Tue Apr 12, 2022 1:46 pm

N1120A wrote:

IFR aircraft landing in the US require 45 minutes reserve plus whatever they need for an alternate.


This is incorrect, neither for for domestic part 121., or foreign Part 129 jet aircraft, reserve is 30 minutes holding at 1500’ after conducting the missed approach.
 
N1120A
Posts: 27290
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

Re: Can Singapore Airlines 253 seats A350 do SIN-NYC mission if they are 280T variant?

Tue Apr 12, 2022 3:52 pm

zeke wrote:
N1120A wrote:

IFR aircraft landing in the US require 45 minutes reserve plus whatever they need for an alternate.


This is incorrect, neither for for domestic part 121., or foreign Part 129 jet aircraft, reserve is 30 minutes holding at 1500’ after conducting the missed approach.


For flag operations, you are partially correct. 121.645 governs flag operations outside the 48 contiguous and District of Columbia, and optionally governs those within the same.

The minimums requirements are as follows:

(1) To fly to and land at the airport to which it is released;

(2) After that, to fly for a period of 10 percent of the total time required to fly from the airport of departure to, and land at, the airport to which it was released;

(3) After that, to fly to and land at the most distant alternate airport specified in the flight release, if an alternate is required; and

(4) After that, to fly for 30 minutes at holding speed at 1,500 feet above the alternate airport (or the destination airport if no alternate is required) under standard temperature conditions.

Domestic Part 121 requires the 45 minute reserve in 121.639, which is the optional minimum rule for flag operations in the 48+DC.

Ops Specs can alter these minimums in some cases or flag operations.
 
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zeke
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Re: Can Singapore Airlines 253 seats A350 do SIN-NYC mission if they are 280T variant?

Tue Apr 12, 2022 11:15 pm

I was addressing domestic or foreign carriers doing that route under 121 or 129, none would require 45 minutes reserve, and none would require a fixed percentage of the total trip fuel for contingency.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14894
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Can Singapore Airlines 253 seats A350 do SIN-NYC mission if they are 280T variant?

Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:14 am

SQ32 wrote:
It seems that A359 at 253 pax SQ configuration can fly SIN - NYC mission.

Assumption:

1. MTOW : 280T
2. OEW (lets define OEW here as MEW + cabin equipment + water + crew + food) : 140T
3. Fuel consumption: 5.84T per hour
4. Mass per pax : 100kg
5. Worse case NYC - SIN duration (including taxi): 19 hours

Hence calculation base on worst case is
Fuel carried = 280 - 140 - 25 = 115T
Flight time = 115 / 5.84 = 19.6 hours


makes one wonder if the upgrade to 283t MTOW is only a paper exercise for the aircraft already delivered with 280t of MTOW.

Fuel carried = 280 - 140 - 25 = 115T


isn´t max fuel on the non-ULR version 110t-ish?

best regards
Thomas
 
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SQ32
Topic Author
Posts: 114
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Re: Can Singapore Airlines 253 seats A350 do SIN-NYC mission if they are 280T variant?

Wed Apr 20, 2022 8:36 am

Standard A350 fuel capacity went from 141,000l (113T) to 165,000l (132T) of the A350-900ULR. Very likely all A350 today is 132T fuel capacity. Also Airbus has quietly increased the MTOW to 283T.

It will have a block time of about 21.2 hours. NYC-SIN block time worst case is about 19 hours for 253 pax A350.

I guess we will see this flight in not too far away future.
 
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Pellegrine
Posts: 2754
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:19 am

Re: Can Singapore Airlines 253 seats A350 do SIN-NYC mission if they are 280T variant?

Sun Apr 24, 2022 12:37 am

SQ32 wrote:
Standard A350 fuel capacity went from 141,000l (113T) to 165,000l (132T) of the A350-900ULR. Very likely all A350 today is 132T fuel capacity. Also Airbus has quietly increased the MTOW to 283T.

It will have a block time of about 21.2 hours. NYC-SIN block time worst case is about 19 hours for 253 pax A350.

I guess we will see this flight in not too far away future.


In going from 141,000l to 165,000l fuel capacity, did Airbus just turn areas in the wing into fuel talks that were previously dry? 19 metric tons is a lot of volume to "find". Does anyone know which MSN started at 293t MTOW default? Is it able to be retrofitted to earlier MSNs?
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Can Singapore Airlines 253 seats A350 do SIN-NYC mission if they are 280T variant?

Sun Apr 24, 2022 3:17 am

Pellegrine wrote:
SQ32 wrote:
Standard A350 fuel capacity went from 141,000l (113T) to 165,000l (132T) of the A350-900ULR. Very likely all A350 today is 132T fuel capacity. Also Airbus has quietly increased the MTOW to 283T.

It will have a block time of about 21.2 hours. NYC-SIN block time worst case is about 19 hours for 253 pax A350.

I guess we will see this flight in not too far away future.


In going from 141,000l to 165,000l fuel capacity, did Airbus just turn areas in the wing into fuel talks that were previously dry? 19 metric tons is a lot of volume to "find". Does anyone know which MSN started at 293t MTOW default? Is it able to be retrofitted to earlier MSNs?


Well, I found a sort of answer. The fuel capacity difference between a "Basic" a/c (of whatever Weight Variant) compared to an a/c with Mod 110211 is 20,170kg. The extra 20,790kg (45,834lb / ~6,841 US gallons at 6.7lbs/USGal) is carried in the center tank.

6,841 US Gallons is approximately 914.5 cubic feet......

The wing tanks of A350s with Mod 110211 carry 115kg LESS on each side.

There was just a 914.5 cubic feet (25.9 cubic meter) space hanging around free in the center tank of the A350?????

https://www.easa.europa.eu/downloads/17736/en
 
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Starlionblue
Posts: 21103
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

Re: Can Singapore Airlines 253 seats A350 do SIN-NYC mission if they are 280T variant?

Sun Apr 24, 2022 10:10 am

Pellegrine wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:
SQ32 wrote:
Standard A350 fuel capacity went from 141,000l (113T) to 165,000l (132T) of the A350-900ULR. Very likely all A350 today is 132T fuel capacity. Also Airbus has quietly increased the MTOW to 283T.

It will have a block time of about 21.2 hours. NYC-SIN block time worst case is about 19 hours for 253 pax A350.

I guess we will see this flight in not too far away future.


In going from 141,000l to 165,000l fuel capacity, did Airbus just turn areas in the wing into fuel talks that were previously dry? 19 metric tons is a lot of volume to "find". Does anyone know which MSN started at 293t MTOW default? Is it able to be retrofitted to earlier MSNs?


Well, I found a sort of answer. The fuel capacity difference between a "Basic" a/c (of whatever Weight Variant) compared to an a/c with Mod 110211 is 20,170kg. The extra 20,790kg (45,834lb / ~6,841 US gallons at 6.7lbs/USGal) is carried in the center tank.

6,841 US Gallons is approximately 914.5 cubic feet......

The wing tanks of A350s with Mod 110211 carry 115kg LESS on each side.

There was just a 914.5 cubic feet (25.9 cubic meter) space hanging around free in the center tank of the A350?????

https://www.easa.europa.eu/downloads/17736/en


At a guess, it was not already "in" the centre tank, but there was free space in that area that could be added to the centre tank.

Or, previously unusable spaces in the tank were plumbed and could be used.
 
trex8
Posts: 5823
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:04 am

Re: Can Singapore Airlines 253 seats A350 do SIN-NYC mission if they are 280T variant?

Sun Apr 24, 2022 11:43 pm

Starlionblue wrote:
At a guess, it was not already "in" the centre tank, but there was free space in that area that could be added to the centre tank.

Or, previously unusable spaces in the tank were plumbed and could be used.

they did something to make more volume usable in the present tank

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... -signs-six
The extended-range capability is achieved without installing additional fuel tanks and the aircraft can be reconfigured easily to the standard A350-900 long-haul specification. “These adaptions are made to the fuel system computer, and to the air venting and inert gas distribution piping in the wing,” explained an official from Airbus. Some additional localized reinforcement of the structure will be made.
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Can Singapore Airlines 253 seats A350 do SIN-NYC mission if they are 280T variant?

Mon Apr 25, 2022 2:40 pm

Pellegrine wrote:
Does anyone know which MSN started at 293t MTOW default? Is it able to be retrofitted to earlier MSNs?


Of course I meant 283t.

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