Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
eta unknown wrote:If you don't, then you don't fly. How else does the airline theoretically know you are actually travelling? No check-in, no boarding pass!
flipdewaf wrote:But I don't "check in" for the train. Why would someone need to know if I'm traveling or not, if my bum isn't on the seat then I'm not traveling, same like a train.
IFlyVeryLittle wrote:Whether we do it in person at the airport, at home on our phones or via an in-airport kiosk, you can't fly until you check in. But why? What mechanisms are set in motion when we "check in"? Or, put another way, what happens if we don't?
citationjet wrote:IFlyVeryLittle wrote:Whether we do it in person at the airport, at home on our phones or via an in-airport kiosk, you can't fly until you check in. But why? What mechanisms are set in motion when we "check in"? Or, put another way, what happens if we don't?
If you have more than carry on luggage, such as checked luggage, then you will have to check in.
Even with only carry on luggage, you must checkin to get a boarding pass, which is required to go thru security.
TheSonntag wrote:Another reason is performance calculation and weight and balance.
kalvado wrote:Probably not too much. It should be possible to use tickets sold for draft calculation, and that is all what checkin data would be good for. Now-shows are relatively small %% of sold tickets.
Standby/non-revs, misconnects, connecting bags misdirected and/or left behind would be a greater fraction of payload and can occur later in the process.
zeke wrote:kalvado wrote:Probably not too much. It should be possible to use tickets sold for draft calculation, and that is all what checkin data would be good for. Now-shows are relatively small %% of sold tickets.
Standby/non-revs, misconnects, connecting bags misdirected and/or left behind would be a greater fraction of payload and can occur later in the process.
Nope, weights need to be known to generate the flight plan, you might not be able to carry the full aircraft capacity due to fuel requirements from the flight plan. The takeoff performance and W&B is generated from the load sheet numbers which will tell you the total aircrafts weight down to the last kg/lb.
These are legal requirements. You cannot use ticket sales to generate this, and you need the actual passenger, baggage, catering, and cargo distribution.
zeke wrote:kalvado wrote:Probably not too much. It should be possible to use tickets sold for draft calculation, and that is all what checkin data would be good for. Now-shows are relatively small %% of sold tickets.
Standby/non-revs, misconnects, connecting bags misdirected and/or left behind would be a greater fraction of payload and can occur later in the process.
Nope, weights need to be known to generate the flight plan, you might not be able to carry the full aircraft capacity due to fuel requirements from the flight plan. The takeoff performance and W&B is generated from the load sheet numbers which will tell you the total aircrafts weight down to the last kg/lb.
These are legal requirements. You cannot use ticket sales to generate this, and you need the actual passenger, baggage, catering, and cargo distribution.
zeke wrote:From check in data you get passenger weights and baggage weights, that is recorded in the system even for connecting passengers.
kalvado wrote:If you ever flew with connection, you should know that probability of missing the second flight is way above zero. I would say 20%, give or take, from my experience.
So check-in data cannot and should not be used for more than preliminary estimate.
dennypayne wrote:kalvado wrote:If you ever flew with connection, you should know that probability of missing the second flight is way above zero. I would say 20%, give or take, from my experience.
So check-in data cannot and should not be used for more than preliminary estimate.
There's no way 20% of people miss connections. In 22 years of business flying, over 1700 flights, I've missed a connection maybe 5-10 times. That's more like 0.2% and I'm sure much more in line with the actual rate in reality.
kalvado wrote:However even with 0.2% missed connections one out of 3 narrowbody flights would get one. So check-in data is unusable for exact weight on that many flights...
Dalmd88 wrote:If you don't check in by the cut off time, they cancel your reserved seat and possibly assign it to someone else.
dennypayne wrote:The airline is going to do everything in its power to ensure all seats are occupied on a flight if at all possible. Especially now when capacity is managed so tightly.
Ruddman wrote:dennypayne wrote:The airline is going to do everything in its power to ensure all seats are occupied on a flight if at all possible. Especially now when capacity is managed so tightly.
Does it matter if the person has paid for the ticket whether they turn up or not?
Nightmareliner wrote:Part of it is the security aspect too - you need to know who exactly is onboard. Hold baggage needs to be reconciled with customers onboard, and those who don't board need their bags offloaded. Think back to Air India 182 or Pan Am 103.
Another reason is airlines perform a check of travel documentation at check in - and for some route, certain airlines require even OLCI HBO passengers to present themselves at the desk because of the heavy penalties the destination country applies if the passenger does not hold the correct documents (USA, UK & Australia are big examples of this).
Neither of these issues apply to trains as mentioned above, or at least not in the same way as it would affect air travel.
kalvado wrote:Nightmareliner wrote:Part of it is the security aspect too - you need to know who exactly is onboard. Hold baggage needs to be reconciled with customers onboard, and those who don't board need their bags offloaded. Think back to Air India 182 or Pan Am 103.
Another reason is airlines perform a check of travel documentation at check in - and for some route, certain airlines require even OLCI HBO passengers to present themselves at the desk because of the heavy penalties the destination country applies if the passenger does not hold the correct documents (USA, UK & Australia are big examples of this).
Neither of these issues apply to trains as mentioned above, or at least not in the same way as it would affect air travel.
Domestic travel requires little documentation beyond ID, and that is not checked during online check-in anyway. Even for international travel from US, document checks often occur at the gate, not at check-in.
Hold bags are indeed dealt with during check-in, but there are many people traveling without one.
IFlyVeryLittle wrote:Whether we do it in person at the airport, at home on our phones or via an in-airport kiosk, you can't fly until you check in. But why? What mechanisms are set in motion when we "check in"? Or, put another way, what happens if we don't?
RR757 wrote:IFlyVeryLittle wrote:Whether we do it in person at the airport, at home on our phones or via an in-airport kiosk, you can't fly until you check in. But why? What mechanisms are set in motion when we "check in"? Or, put another way, what happens if we don't?
For security and logistics they need to know who’s “accepted” to take this flight. At the gate they then know who or haven’t boarded. When the gate is about to close they need to know who is missing. If they don’t turn up (drunk in the bar often) their bag is off loaded for security.
Also it’s needed for the cockpit’s weight and centre of gravity calculation.
Another reason is security. They know a wanted criminal is at the airport and usually apprehended at the gate or taken off the plane once seated.
dennypayne wrote:Ruddman wrote:dennypayne wrote:The airline is going to do everything in its power to ensure all seats are occupied on a flight if at all possible. Especially now when capacity is managed so tightly.
Does it matter if the person has paid for the ticket whether they turn up or not?
It's not even about the finances - there are always standbys that can be accommodated, whether that's from IRROPS or commuting staff or reaccommodations from other airlines. No sense in letting a seat go out empty when they could help clear out some of that backlog.
Ruddman wrote:Well, I was only joking. But all jokes aside, I think it’s only US airlines that offer standby seats? I know they don’t do it in Australia anyway. Miss ya flight and she’s an empty seat.
zeke wrote:Ruddman wrote:Well, I was only joking. But all jokes aside, I think it’s only US airlines that offer standby seats? I know they don’t do it in Australia anyway. Miss ya flight and she’s an empty seat.
There is standby seats available in Australia both domestically and internationally. Busy times of the year, or busy times of the day flights don’t go with empty seats.
kalvado wrote:Name is on the ticket at the time of purchase. No need for check in to look it up.
RR757 wrote:
For security and logistics they need to know who’s “accepted” to take this flight. At the gate they then know who or haven’t boarded. When the gate is about to close they need to know who is missing. If they don’t turn up (drunk in the bar often) their bag is off loaded for security.
Also it’s needed for the cockpit’s weight and centre of gravity calculation.
Another reason is security. They know a wanted criminal is at the airport and usually apprehended at the gate or taken off the plane once seated.
zeke wrote:Ruddman wrote:Well, I was only joking. But all jokes aside, I think it’s only US airlines that offer standby seats? I know they don’t do it in Australia anyway. Miss ya flight and she’s an empty seat.
There is standby seats available in Australia both domestically and internationally. Busy times of the year, or busy times of the day flights don’t go with empty seats.
Dalmd88 wrote:If you don't check in by the cut off time, they cancel your reserved seat and possibly assign it to someone else.
citationjet wrote:Even with only carry on luggage, you must checkin to get a boarding pass, which is required to go thru security.
Nightmareliner wrote:Part of it is the security aspect too - you need to know who exactly is onboard.
PatrickZ80 wrote:Dalmd88 wrote:If you don't check in by the cut off time, they cancel your reserved seat and possibly assign it to someone else.
But should they have that right? After all you paid for that seat, regardless if you use it or not. If you don't use it, you paid for that seat to be empty. Not for it to be reassigned.
QF93 wrote:RR757 wrote:As for identifying criminals, many (but not all) countries require you to scan your boarding pass as you go through airport security to enter airside, so at the very least the capability exists to identify members of the FBI Most Wanted list that are in the airport.
Ruddman wrote:Are you sure?
flyingturtle wrote:PatrickZ80 wrote:Dalmd88 wrote:If you don't check in by the cut off time, they cancel your reserved seat and possibly assign it to someone else.
But should they have that right? After all you paid for that seat, regardless if you use it or not. If you don't use it, you paid for that seat to be empty. Not for it to be reassigned.
Yes, the airline is right.
I do some maths tutoring a few hours a week. If the student forgets to cancel in time, then I insist on getting paid and enjoying my free time. The student is always paying for my preparation, for traveling to his/her place - and not just for the actual tutoring lesson.
PatrickZ80 wrote:I would be okay with you being free that time that you would otherwise spend tutoring me, but I would not be okay with you tutoring another student in my place during that time and charge him/her as well as me. That means you can sell the same time twice, once to me and once to the other student.
PatrickZ80 wrote:
Now instead of a student I'm a passenger. I book a flight and pay for it, but at the last moment I'm not showing up. The airline reserved a seat for me, I paid for that seat. I would be okay with that seat going empty, but I'm not okay with the seat being sold to another passenger and the airline charging that passenger as well. They sell the same seat twice, once to me and once to the other passenger.
So how is the airline right in this situation? Shouldn't all no-show seats go empty and the passengers be charged for them regardless if they use them or not?
PatrickZ80 wrote:
But should they have that right? After all you paid for that seat, regardless if you use it or not. If you don't use it, you paid for that seat to be empty. Not for it to be reassigned.
citationjet wrote:PatrickZ80 wrote:
But should they have that right? After all you paid for that seat, regardless if you use it or not. If you don't use it, you paid for that seat to be empty. Not for it to be reassigned.
If you cancel your flight before departure, your ticket retains value as a voucher for future travel.
If you don’t cancel before departure, your ticket has lost all value.