Hi All,
I am currently a teenager who has been fascinated with Aviation since I was a young child. As I am wrapping up high school and trying figure out what comes next, a career as a Pilot has been one that I have been quite interested in recently and I would love to hear from anyone who has experience working in any part of the Aviation sector on things that don’t often get talked about when people are learning more about what life and work is really like. I am specifically interested in hearing more about things such as the pros and cons of various aviation programs, the real world ROI of flight school (as I am aware that it can be quite expensive), and even airline specific topics like what some airlines are superior in (scheduling flexibility, pay, and career development) vs others.
Looking forward to hearing more!
Thank you!!

Hi!

I made a post some years ago, which I am pasting in full below. Hopefully, it is not too dated. All my "opinion".

The main thing to think about if you're contemplating a career as a pilot is lifestyle. For me, not working nine-to-five is a big plus. I don't like regular hours. The downside is that I often work holidays, nights, and weekends. Have a serious think if this sort of non-routine routine is something you are ok with.

Another wrinkle is that you'll need to study for something your entire career, whether it be an upgrade, an type change, or just the next sim session.

Finally, think about the fact that you're always one failed medical away from an abrupt end to your flying career.

You will always:
- Have a gripe with management.
- Complain about your roster.
- Think that your life is epic despite all that. Living the dream, baby!!!

If you have flying in your heart, it's all worth it.


Aviation - Pilot training tips.
First thing to do: Get a first class aviation medical. You don’t want to go through all the education and then find out you have a medical issue that precludes you from getting a first class medical. In Hong Kong you can get both USA and HK medicals simultaneously from Dr. Oliver at Island Health in Discovery Bay.

Second thing: Take a couple of introductory lessons. While flying a little Cessna or Piper is far removed from flying an airliner, it does give you a good idea of what aviation is like. You’ll also be spending 250-1000 hours in small planes, then tens of thousands of hours in a cockpit, so you better not hate it!

Four options for getting from zero to airliners in order of decreasing desirability and increasing cost.
- Get into a cadet program that takes you from zero. Cathay, BA and several other airlines offer this. Places are few and competition is fierce but trying doesn’t hurt. Check airline websites.
- Go to a good "mom and pop" school. A good one will give you better basic flying skills and more personalized instruction than many “big name” programs. You have to “drive” your education yourself but a good school will make resources available if you put in the work. Zero to CPL is a US $50000-60000 exercise including housing. More on this below.
- Go to an integrated school like Pan Am academy. While it is tempting for the lower hours requirements and the (often just perceived) structure, it typically costs more and takes longer than a mom and pop school. Many integrated schools also have a bad reputations as “pilot mills”.
- Go to a university with an aviation program such as Embry-Riddle. If you want/need to get a degree anyway (you probably do), this is an option. However it is much more expensive than just getting a degree somewhere else and flying at a normal school. Don't waste your money or time. On that note, don’t get a degree in “aviation management” or the like. It is a useless subject if you don’t become a pilot. “Traditional” degrees like engineering (even aero engineering), law or economics are much more help if you can’t make aviation work, or even as a management pilot.

A good mom and pop school will get you from zero to CPL Multi in 13-16 weeks. CFI and CFI(I) is an extra 4 weeks or so. This is blazing fast and means flying every day plus studying while you’re on the ground. You can also do things in stages but I highly recommend flying in intense blocks of a few days or weeks at a time rather than spreading it out by flying once or twice a week for a few years. Retention is much greater that way and total money/time spend tends to be lower. If you fly every day you’ll spend much less time revising at the beginning of each lesson. Engine on means the money is flowing out of your wallet.

I went to SunState Aviation in Kissimmee. A great school with well-maintained planes (not very common among flight schools) and a commitment to excellence coupled with a relaxed atmosphere. They are experts at “full immersion training”. Work hard here and they’ll make it happen. If you perform well and work hard at SunState, you have a decent chance of getting hired as an instructor by the school when you are done (though there may be visa issues). You’ll make very little as an instructor but it is a great way to get paid to build hours while you wait for a job opportunity to turn up. (Note that this is all based on my experience in 2012 and things may have changed.)

Once you have your first license or Commercial and you want/need to do your ATPL exams, I recommend Bristol Groundschool in the UK. Fantastic program. Very hard work but the pass rate is very high.

Additional notes:
- Go to a school with good weather! In Florida, for example, you very seldom lose days due to weather. This is not the case in, say, Michigan. If you're doing an intensive program with 7 days a week in the air, you don't want to lose days.
- Study your theory before you start (e.g. King/Cessna online course), and keep studying all the way through. Even if you fly 4-5 hours a day that still means a lot of hours to study. Use them. If you do zero to multi CPL you’ll have to do three written exams and four oral exams in less than four months.
- Never, ever, make enemies in aviation. You never know where people end up and how they might influence your possibilities of getting a job.
- At all times be helpful, cheerful and hardworking. Show initiative and a positive attitude. Take criticism gracefully and work hard to improve. Learn from your mistakes. Be humble and patient. Cultivate contacts. There are lots of pilots who want jobs and flying skills are not a big enough differentiator between candidates. Airlines hire the good flyers, but more importantly they hire people who can work with other people, who work hard at excelling, and who are pleasant to hang out with in a tiny cockpit for hours on end.

Some books you can (and should) read. Having read the introductory books will help a lot when you actually start flying. You can get all on Amazon but some are available for free online (I have linked to those).
Introductory to be read before starting flying.
- Pilot’s Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge. http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies ... _handbook/
- Airplane Flying Handbook. http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies ... _handbook/
- Stick and Rudder – Wolfgang Langewiesche. Written in 1944, it is still valid today for basic flying maneuvers.
Intermediate to be read before starting instrument work.
- Instrument Procedures Handbook. http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies ... _handbook/
- Instrument Flying Handbook. http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies ... /aviation/
Intermediate to be read before you start multi-engine flying.
- Transition to Twins – David Robson
Advanced for when you have done the instrument license, and as an introduction to airliner flying.
- Handling the Big Jets – D.P. Davies. A 50-year old classic and a tough nut to crack but if you understand it you will understand high speed aerodynamics and jet engines.
- Fly the Wing – Jim Webb & William Walker.
- Flying the Big Jets – Stanley Stewart. Not that “advanced” but a good introduction to airliner operations.
Bonus book.
- Fate is the Hunter – Ernest Gann. This memoir of flying the 30s, 40s and 50s is a must read for every prospective pilot.

I will take a slightly different spin than Starlionblue did, after all, varied opinions are what one needs to make good decisions.

Your question is along the lines of "how long is a piece of string?"

There was one route to becoming a pilot that was missing. That route was via the military, which is the route I followed.

I am retired now and have been completely retired for about 2 years. I did work for a ME airline as an SFI/SFE for about 3 years after I gave up flying the line.

As far back as I can remember, I wanted to be a pilot. With that in mind, I pretty much did everything I could to accomplish that goal. I got my PPL when I was 16, went to College/University on an AFROTC scholarship, got an Aeronautical Engineering degree and went to Air Force Pilot training. I spent just over 10 years on active duty and another 10 years in the ANG. Got hired back in the early 80s by a major airline and as they say in the movies, the rest is history!
Would I do it again that way, in a minute I would? I have two sons who are 30 and 35 and I am extremely glad they didn't go into aviation. I can't tell you how much the life of a pilot has changed in the 40 years I have been involved. Generally speaking, the changes have not been for the better. I am sure you can talk to X number of pilots and get X numbers of opinions. Deregulation brought a very sharp knife to contracts and working conditions. And, in my personal opinion, safety took a back seat. Things such as fatigue, crewrest, training and many other "soft" issues were and still are perceived as obstacles to a "productive" pilot. Everyone has an opinion of unions and I hate to think what commercial flying would be like if ALPA was not in existence. Regardless of what the general population thinks, ALPA's primary focus is SAFETY! You will, if you pursue a commercial career, have to decide for yourself what you think of unions.

If you decide to go the civilian route, be prepared to have a very different life. There is no such thing as weekends or holidays, if you're junior, get used to working all the big holidays such as Christmas and New Year. You'll learn to travel on holiday as a non-rev during off-peak seasons. And, if you do go the civilian route, be prepared to carry a large amount of debt to service for a number of years. Or, get used to indentured servitude if you go the cadet route. But, I have had the same thing said about going the military route. I didn't view it that way, but I can see how someone could look at it that way.

I can honestly say I never woke up not looking forward to going to work. If it was a 12-day trip or a turn, a simulator (giving and receiving) didn't make any difference. I was getting paid to do something I loved to do. It wasn't a vocation it was an avocation.

Hope my perspective helps.

It depends on where you are and where you have the right to work

The path to becoming a pilot is different from the US to Canada to Europe or Australia.

Becoming an pilot is within the reach of anyone if you put effort into it.

Check out https://www.youtube.com/c/flyingwithbigern. He is a pilot with WN. Gives a good idea of day to day life

Since I don't know where you're located I can only speak from an American perspective, but the same ideas pretty much apply worldwide even if the tactics are different. I've been flying for 12 years, 7 of which have been for various airlines and I can honestly say that I can't imagine doing anything else. I think Starlionblue hit most of the high points so I won't repeat everything he said, but here are a couple of other tidbits to consider (in no particular order):

1. Airlines are not the only careers in aviation despite what most people (and even many pilots) think. There's corporate/charter flying, "Bush" flying in Alaska or other parts of the world, crop dusting, training/instruction, the military and more. If flying for a major airline is your dream, that's great. If not, that's great too and don't let anyone bully you into thinking otherwise.

1a. If you do choose a career path other than the airlines, people will constantly ask you if you ever want to become a "real" pilot. Learn to not be annoyed by that question.

2. With rare exceptions, the lifestyle is definitely non-traditional. Your friends and family will have difficulty understanding why you can't get together this weekend or why you won't make it to Thanksgiving dinner, and they definitely won't get that you need to bid for vacation several months in advance and you can't just "take time off" from work whenever you want. That being said, I love not working 9-5. I get to shop and go to the gym, etc. when it's not crowded and I get to run errands when things are actually open. I also get more days off than a typical office drone; at my current company we work a maximum of 17 days per month which means we get 13 or 14 days off. With that being said I don't generally come home every day after work (trips are multiple days long), so my total hours away from home are probably similar to if not more than an office job.

3. Early in your career you may need to move a lot. Some companies offer "home basing" where they just buy you tickets to/from wherever you live, but most will assign you a "base" or "domicile" which is where all of your trips will begin and end. Commuting (pilot speak for not living in your base) is more or less possible depending on where you live, where your base is and your schedule, and different companies are more or less tolerant/accomodating of this but it is your responsibility to get to work on time. I would personally advise against commuting as it adds a lot of stress to the job. Also when you are junior you will probably be a "reserve" pilot which means you are on call in case they need you; if you are commuting it means you will need a place to stay in or near your domicile so you will be available for reserve. Search the internet for "pilot crash pads" for more information on this. I would recommend living in base if at all possible, but to be fair a lot of pilots commute and make it work.

4. As far as ROI from flight training, I would say it is better than a college degree these days. First-year pilot pay at even small "regional" airlines is close to $100k which is a lot better than you'd do with a degree in art history. That being said, if you have the ability to do both I would recommend you get a degree in a non-aviation field. While most airlines no longer require college degrees it will still move your application higher in the stack and it will give you something to fall back on if aviation doesn't work out (see point #5). If you can't do both, just do flight training and you can always get a degree online later; you definitely don't need college to get started in this career. One other point to consider is that unless you go to a school like Embry-Riddle (which is a four-year university program), you won't have the same student loan options for flight training that "normal" college students can take advantage of, but there are other options if you need to borrow money.

5. Right now being a pilot is very lucrative but this hasn't always been the case. The aviation industry, and airlines in particular, are highly cyclical and subject to boom-and-bust cycles and are sensitive to economic downturns. The COVID shutdowns were an extreme example of this but other recent events (9/11 and the 2008 recession come to mind) have resulted in pilots being furloughed. It is important to always be prepared for this possibility because once the pink slips go out it will be too late. Save your money and invest wisely. On a more personal note you could also develop a medical issue that keeps you from flying, or you might just fall in love with someone who doesn't want you to be away from home so much. In any case it's always a good idea to have a Plan B.

6. Aviation is a community in and of itself, and the longer you are in the industry the more friends you'll make. I have friends all over the U.S. now, most of whom are people I worked with at various times before we all went our separate ways. Keep in touch with these connections and eventually you'll have someone to hang out with during every layover!

7. As I write this from a hotel room in Miami, I can honestly say that I have the best job in the world. If you don't feel that way, or if you stop feeling that way, it's time to do something else. This job consumes too much of your time and energy for you to be miserable doing it; I've flown with clearly burnt-out pilots and it's not fun for either of us, so don't be that person.

A lot of older pilots I fly with say (with varying degrees of sincerity) that they wouldn't encourage their kids to follow in their footsteps and become pilots. I don't feel that way at all; I think it's a great career if you have the right personality for it and realistic expectations and I think it's wonderful that you're interested. If you have any other questions feel free to send me a PM and I'll do my best to give you some answers.

ARCTIC FLYER pretty covers it. From the corporate side, which more sensitive to the Pilot labor market, it’s getting ridiculous—absolutely stupid money, by our standards, are being offered. Spoke with a Chicago-based chief pilot, hiring 8 pilots, 300-325 salary, annual bonus high 5 figures to low 6; home-based, they airline you to the jet, set work schedule, airline home. Loads of benefits, too. That’s for “big iron” is becoming normal. There’s no one out there with the experience desired and departments are poaching from each other. The shoe is definitely on the other foot

All, I’m also a teenager who’s a prospective pilot. I’m a sophomore in HS and I’m gonna start my PPL training soon after I turn 16 (because the flight school is waitlisted). I’m also gonna volunteer as a line boy if I can, while I’m waiting on the waitlist.

I went to a summer camp at embry recently and I asked the counselors a few questions. They said that it is recommended to get your PPL before college to save money and time but that you shouldn’t get your instrument rating before college. Anyone who went there knows why? Also, does Embry’s program give you access to earn other things like a dual engine rating or CPL? I know that by the end of 4 year program, you can earn a restricted ATP with their program at about 1000 hours. My plan after that is to become a CFI there if I can and get 500 more hours at least.

Also, I wanna fly for DL when I grow older. I found a site where it describes working for Endeavor air for about 4-5 years and then go to DL.
https://l3harrisairlineacademy.com/en-u ... eavor-air/

Does this sound like a good plan? Thanks

Embry probably wants to train you their way instead of you spending money on instrument training and you’ll still have to spend money at Embry taking their instrument course

While it is laudable to have a final destination like Delta in mind, nothing wrong with that, you should keep an open mind so that you can take advantage of opportunities as they become available.

Regionals are selling cradle to grave career these days and it’s okay to do that but keep an open mind and if something else comes up that could be better for you at least consider it.

Woodreau wrote:

Embry probably wants to train you their way instead of you spending money on instrument training and you’ll still have to spend money at Embry taking their instrument course

While it is laudable to have a final destination like Delta in mind, nothing wrong with that, you should keep an open mind so that you can take advantage of opportunities as they become available.

Regionals are selling cradle to grave career these days and it’s okay to do that but keep an open mind and if something else comes up that could be better for you at least consider it.

Oh, that makes sense. Still don’t understand that if admissions had that attitude for instrument ratings, then how come they can say that you can get your PPL? Wouldn’t that have the same effect?

I personally admired DL since I was a little kid, but I’ll gladly take any opportunity if they arise. But I love DL a lot and they’ve been my dream since I was like 6.

Thanks

Part 141 training can get you an instrument rating with lower minimums than Part 61 I believe. Also in order to qualify for a restricted ATP at 1,000 hours instead of 1,500 I think you need instrument to be done at the R-ATP approved program. It’s very common to get PPL outside of college, then IR+CMEL at the 141 program.

Boeing757100 wrote:

All, I’m also a teenager who’s a prospective pilot. I’m a sophomore in HS and I’m gonna start my PPL training soon after I turn 16 (because the flight school is waitlisted). I’m also gonna volunteer as a line boy if I can, while I’m waiting on the waitlist.

I went to a summer camp at embry recently and I asked the counselors a few questions. They said that it is recommended to get your PPL before college to save money and time but that you shouldn’t get your instrument rating before college. Anyone who went there knows why? Also, does Embry’s program give you access to earn other things like a dual engine rating or CPL? I know that by the end of 4 year program, you can earn a restricted ATP with their program at about 1000 hours. My plan after that is to become a CFI there if I can and get 500 more hours at least.

Also, I wanna fly for DL when I grow older. I found a site where it describes working for Endeavor air for about 4-5 years and then go to DL.
https://l3harrisairlineacademy.com/en-u ... eavor-air/

Does this sound like a good plan? Thanks

My €0.02 on this. The PPL is an introduction. This is where you figure out if you actually enjoy flying, even if the flying itself is very different from professional flying.

Having done it already before starting Embry, regardless of which kind of school you got the PPL from, will give you a leg up. However, it is not such a regimented course, and the skills are quite fundamental, meaning you won't have to unlearn things and be taught the "Embry Way".

TonyClifton wrote:

Part 141 training can get you an instrument rating with lower minimums than Part 61 I believe. Also in order to qualify for a restricted ATP at 1,000 hours instead of 1,500 I think you need instrument to be done at the R-ATP approved program. It’s very common to get PPL outside of college, then IR+CMEL at the 141 program.

Pilot licensing (and flight time limitations). Typically more complex than flying the jet.

Boeing757100 wrote:

All, I’m also a teenager who’s a prospective pilot. I’m a sophomore in HS and I’m gonna start my PPL training soon after I turn 16 (because the flight school is waitlisted). I’m also gonna volunteer as a line boy if I can, while I’m waiting on the waitlist.

I went to a summer camp at embry recently and I asked the counselors a few questions. They said that it is recommended to get your PPL before college to save money and time but that you shouldn’t get your instrument rating before college. Anyone who went there knows why? Also, does Embry’s program give you access to earn other things like a dual engine rating or CPL? I know that by the end of 4 year program, you can earn a restricted ATP with their program at about 1000 hours. My plan after that is to become a CFI there if I can and get 500 more hours at least.

Also, I wanna fly for DL when I grow older. I found a site where it describes working for Endeavor air for about 4-5 years and then go to DL.
https://l3harrisairlineacademy.com/en-u ... eavor-air/

Does this sound like a good plan? Thanks

As other posters have said there is nothing wrong with having goals, but don't be so focused on the endgame that you pass up good opportunities along the way. I wouldn't have the job I have right now had I not followed a few winding roads when given the chance. That being said, at your age you should be able to get to DL while you're still pretty young if down the road you feel like that's still what you want.

I haven't had my finger on the pulse of the regionals too much lately, but in years past one had to be very careful when evaluating claims about advancement to the majors. Some regionals (most recently American affiliates) had true "flow-through" programs where you were guaranteed a spot when your number came up. Some others only guaranteed an interview while in some cases a major airline would only guarantee a quota in each class (for example, 20% of each new hire class would be from Regional X) with no guarantee to you personally. I'm not sure if any of this is still the case but it is critical that you are 100% clear about the details surrounding any promise of career advancement made by a regional airline.

One final point I'll make is that, given today's job market, it may not be necessary to endure the regional life at all. As an example my company flies 737 and 767 freighters; we have a new hire class this week and two of the guys have never flown a jet before. They told me that the company is even giving them two extra ground school days and two extra sim days right off the bat! My point is that we are just as desperate for pilots as everyone else so you'll be surprised how many options are out there for you. I can't predict what the market will look like in, say, 5 years but that's the story today.

ArcticFlyer wrote:

As other posters have said there is nothing wrong with having goals, but don't be so focused on the endgame that you pass up good opportunities along the way. I wouldn't have the job I have right now had I not followed a few winding roads when given the chance. That being said, at your age you should be able to get to DL while you're still pretty young if down the road you feel like that's still what you want.

You're 100% right here and anyone would be foolish to overlook this.

The trap that people end up in is the "I MUST FLOW TO DELTA" strategy of going to a wholly owned regional, doing everything right, and getting screwed by a flow clause that was a little too flexible. I took an unexpected offer abroad and it was probably the most fun I've ever had - flying was interesting, pay was fine, living there was dope.

Don't overlook or dismiss anything that someone offers you. We're all different but there are going to be things that are important to you along your life. It's not all about the end career goals... prioritize being happy getting there. Because there are tons of people who didn't and we now have to fly with them, miserable going in, miserable 20 years later.

Life is ultimately about enjoying the ride - keep that in mind.

You got that RIGHT! I grew up wanting to be a PanAm pilot; they weren’t hiring but my second choice was—Eastern. That horse got shot out from under me on March, 1989. Back to the USAF.

Being miserable because you didn’t get your young dreams is no way to go thru life; enjoy everyday, plans are only good for about 5 years.

I'm a Riddle grad with an AMT related degree. While I was there worked for the Admissions Dept. I'm sure some things have changed, but many things sound similar.

Yes, get your PPL or at least start seriously working on it. Plan on trying to fly at least twice a week, any less and you will just be wasting time relearning the last lesson. Getting a start on your PPL will give you the confidence that training to be a pilot is what you want to do. When I started at Riddle I was in the Aero Sci program and once I started flying I found it was not really that excited about the career. I switched to AMT and never looked back.

As for not getting you Instrument before Riddle. First off if you are going to a college right after High School there likely isn't much time for you to get the PPL and Instrument. Riddle and other schools also discourage it. Some FBO schools are good, some are not. The part 141 schools don't want you to learn poor habits from one of the not so good FBO programs.

Riddle and just about every other college 141 program offer Multi engine ratings and CFI ratings. I think Aero Sci only requires Commercial-Instrument for the degree. Multi and the CFI ratings are electives than many students take. There is also a Flight Dispatch rating you can get if you sign up for it early in your college career. It doesn't cost much more, just the cost of the test and I think there is one elective class you need to take on top off the required Aero Sci core ground school classes. It's a good back up to have in case you lose your medical. You do have to sign up before you start taking the required classes since there is an attendance roster that the school must maintain.

As others have said don't get the tunnel vision on where your career is going to take you. That includes which school you go to. I'm a Riddle grad so I lean toward there, but look around at other programs. You might find one you like better. All of the top schools give good flight training and have excellent networking opportunities. Yes that is VERY important. Your personal network as a pilot can really help in the early stages of your career. I'm a Fraternity member. My brothers that were pilots really helped each other get those first couple of flying jobs. One would get a job as a CFI and when an opening came up he said to the boss, "I have friend that you need to look at." I have about ten friends that leaped through CFI, cargo and commuter jobs that way.

Thanks all for the replies! I have learned not to have tunnel vision stubbornness for my career. I guess I can have ERAU and DL as an end game, but can use other programs and things as stepping stones, or as backups if my end game doesn’t work out. Thanks all for the wealth of information.

Boeing757100 wrote:

Thanks all for the replies! I have learned not to have tunnel vision stubbornness for my career. I guess I can have ERAU and DL as an end game, but can use other programs and things as stepping stones, or as backups if my end game doesn’t work out. Thanks all for the wealth of information.

I don’t have time to read through these replies. But unless your family is wealthy, don’t go to ERAU. You can find much a much better value elsewhere.

flight152 wrote:

Boeing757100 wrote:

Thanks all for the replies! I have learned not to have tunnel vision stubbornness for my career. I guess I can have ERAU and DL as an end game, but can use other programs and things as stepping stones, or as backups if my end game doesn’t work out. Thanks all for the wealth of information.

I don’t have time to read through these replies. But unless your family is wealthy, don’t go to ERAU. You can find much a much better value elsewhere.

I’ve heard great things about MTSU. Cheaper too.

One sage piece of advice.

Always respect your maintenance crew.

Remember Maintenace and Quality are teh two departemtnst that ensure the airworthiness and safety of every single flight.

Strebav8or wrote:

One sage piece of advice.

Always respect your maintenance crew.

Remember Maintenace and Quality are teh two departemtnst that ensure the airworthiness and safety of every single flight.

Yes!

And respect your cabin crew! They deal with the passengers so you don't have to. And if you're not nice to them, you'll soon find your coffee laced with cyanide and spit.