Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
IFlyVeryLittle wrote:In the United States, especially with Big 3 airlines with coast to coast operations, crew bases can be dotted all around the country. But do pay scales for employees vary from one base to another, owing to local costs of living. Surely, using Delta as an example, places like Atlanta or Minneapolis are cheaper to live than say, New York or Los Angeles. Or is this simply a reason for crews to commute back and forth. thanks.
jetskipper wrote:There is one caveat with the United contract. Crews based in Guam get a monthly cost of living stipend that the mainland based crews do not receive, pay per hour is the same however.
bluecrew wrote:Adding on to what people have contributed about QOL in relation to bases, half the early career drama of the first job you know you're going to stay at for a while is playing the quality of life bingo. Good airplane, good trips, good quality of life, good commute, good money - can't have them all. It's entirely because unlike the normal corporate world, we don't get adjusted salaries or pay based on location, but then, how would that work with an airline, where a massive chunk of people commute from cheaper places anyways?
I think what's lost on most lay people is when a New York-based crew of 2 pilots and 4 flight attendants flies you to LAX, there's a great chance that none of them live in New York. Enter the Commute Hunger Games - better be okay going from MSP to ATL via STL. Commuting eats peoples' souls. If it's particularly nasty, everything where you live has to be 2x better than your base, otherwise, it's trouble on the home front.
And then you have to match that to the productivity of whatever seat you're bidding... senior base with commuters? Get used to staring at the bunk above you after min credit max duty day trips multiple days in a row, if you're lucky.
For anyone who doesn't have the industry experience, those are some of the basic factors of how people even decide what domicile to bid long-term. For a year or two... pretty much you can make anything work. The relative ease of commuting, good pay, decent flexibility, make it less attractive to get into a fight about comp by location. Union would never, unless it's egregious (like Guam), and it would be a huge schism in pilot groups. "Why does he get paid $35 more an hour than me for the same flying?!" Nightmare labor dispute scenario #455.
Max Q wrote:bluecrew wrote:Adding on to what people have contributed about QOL in relation to bases, half the early career drama of the first job you know you're going to stay at for a while is playing the quality of life bingo. Good airplane, good trips, good quality of life, good commute, good money - can't have them all. It's entirely because unlike the normal corporate world, we don't get adjusted salaries or pay based on location, but then, how would that work with an airline, where a massive chunk of people commute from cheaper places anyways?
I think what's lost on most lay people is when a New York-based crew of 2 pilots and 4 flight attendants flies you to LAX, there's a great chance that none of them live in New York. Enter the Commute Hunger Games - better be okay going from MSP to ATL via STL. Commuting eats peoples' souls. If it's particularly nasty, everything where you live has to be 2x better than your base, otherwise, it's trouble on the home front.
And then you have to match that to the productivity of whatever seat you're bidding... senior base with commuters? Get used to staring at the bunk above you after min credit max duty day trips multiple days in a row, if you're lucky.
For anyone who doesn't have the industry experience, those are some of the basic factors of how people even decide what domicile to bid long-term. For a year or two... pretty much you can make anything work. The relative ease of commuting, good pay, decent flexibility, make it less attractive to get into a fight about comp by location. Union would never, unless it's egregious (like Guam), and it would be a huge schism in pilot groups. "Why does he get paid $35 more an hour than me for the same flying?!" Nightmare labor dispute scenario #455.
Well described, I agree with ‘commuting eats people’s souls’ !
For three years I commuted to sit reserve in a crash pad in EWR, a one room apartment with five beds which was owned and operated by the scuzzy motel next door, I had seven other roommates all on reserve and they were often all there, the couch was often used as a bed
Commuting to reserve is not fun
RetiredWeasel wrote:Just saying, if those pilots who work for a US major dug into their contracts, then there is probably a section on basing pilots outside of the contiguous US. I know at NW the agreement involved a living allowance premium for that exception and was applied to bases in ANC, HNL and GUM. Of course that wouldn't apply to Hawaiian and Aloha back in the day cuz HNL was their domicile.
bluecrew wrote:Max Q wrote:bluecrew wrote:Adding on to what people have contributed about QOL in relation to bases, half the early career drama of the first job you know you're going to stay at for a while is playing the quality of life bingo. Good airplane, good trips, good quality of life, good commute, good money - can't have them all. It's entirely because unlike the normal corporate world, we don't get adjusted salaries or pay based on location, but then, how would that work with an airline, where a massive chunk of people commute from cheaper places anyways?
I think what's lost on most lay people is when a New York-based crew of 2 pilots and 4 flight attendants flies you to LAX, there's a great chance that none of them live in New York. Enter the Commute Hunger Games - better be okay going from MSP to ATL via STL. Commuting eats peoples' souls. If it's particularly nasty, everything where you live has to be 2x better than your base, otherwise, it's trouble on the home front.
And then you have to match that to the productivity of whatever seat you're bidding... senior base with commuters? Get used to staring at the bunk above you after min credit max duty day trips multiple days in a row, if you're lucky.
For anyone who doesn't have the industry experience, those are some of the basic factors of how people even decide what domicile to bid long-term. For a year or two... pretty much you can make anything work. The relative ease of commuting, good pay, decent flexibility, make it less attractive to get into a fight about comp by location. Union would never, unless it's egregious (like Guam), and it would be a huge schism in pilot groups. "Why does he get paid $35 more an hour than me for the same flying?!" Nightmare labor dispute scenario #455.
Well described, I agree with ‘commuting eats people’s souls’ !
For three years I commuted to sit reserve in a crash pad in EWR, a one room apartment with five beds which was owned and operated by the scuzzy motel next door, I had seven other roommates all on reserve and they were often all there, the couch was often used as a bed
Commuting to reserve is not fun
With some of the reserve provisions today, not so bad. I imagine your time commuting to reserve was around the same time as mine - we basically had just gotten rid of them making us do airport appreciation, rules were getting a little better across the board, but they were starting the trip optimizer stuff. We had llegal crashpads in BOS which got shut down by the police, usually because another crashpad owner informed on them after losing a pilot or flight attendant, an increasingly impossible real estate market if you wanted to actually live in the city, and varied, but tight, commuting options. It didn't take me long to pack up and move to base, got a steal on an apartment for a few years in a great area, and enjoyed the better work-life balance.
QF93 wrote:How did it work for non-U.S. FA bases? I seem to recall UA had bases in London and possibly elsewhere pre-Covid. Presumably that would be based on a bespoke local pay scale rather than just a local currency equivalent of the U.S. rates?
QF93 wrote:How did it work for non-U.S. FA bases? I seem to recall UA had bases in London and possibly elsewhere pre-Covid. Presumably that would be based on a bespoke local pay scale rather than just a local currency equivalent of the U.S. rates?