VIP Temporary Flight Restrictions are a moving target and follow the US President (and sometimes VP) to protect him/her during travel. I have a question about a Permanent VIP TFR in Dallas, TX. Is this to protect former President Bush and if so why not have a permanent TFR at the Carter, Clinton, Obama or Trump residences?
I remember Ronald Reagan had a Restricted Area over his hilltop ranch near Santa Barbara in the ‘80s. This was long before TFRs were a thing. The old Santa Barbara VOR, now Gaviota GVO, was on his property which made it common for the wayward pilot to blunder into this restricted area I recall.
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Re: Question about the Dallas permanent VIP TFR
Are you talking about this small one?
https://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_9_2934.html
If you plug in the GPS coordinates in Google Maps, it shows the TFR basically over a park in a residential neighborhood adjacent to the Dallas North Tollway:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/32%C2 ... 96.8097222
Who is the VIP there?
https://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_9_2934.html
If you plug in the GPS coordinates in Google Maps, it shows the TFR basically over a park in a residential neighborhood adjacent to the Dallas North Tollway:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/32%C2 ... 96.8097222
Who is the VIP there?
Re: Question about the Dallas permanent VIP TFR
There is a similar TFR over Mar-a-Lago. President Carter couldn't care less about this sort of thing. President Obama primarily lives in Washington, which already has strict rules. President and Senator/Secretary Clinton seem to still have their house in Chappaqua, but also have a large house in DC and may well be relying on what the Obamas do.
The TFR/semi prohibited area without permission in Dallas is indeed over George W. Bush's house, and a 1 no radius
The TFR/semi prohibited area without permission in Dallas is indeed over George W. Bush's house, and a 1 no radius
Re: Question about the Dallas permanent VIP TFR
N1120A wrote:The TFR/semi prohibited area without permission in Dallas is indeed over George W. Bush's house, and a 1 no radius
Ah, I see his house now on the other side of Meaders Ln. Interesting that they don't center the TFR over his house, but I guess that might be for security reasons. Is P-49 over his ranch in Crawford?
Re: Question about the Dallas permanent VIP TFR
adipasqu wrote:N1120A wrote:The TFR/semi prohibited area without permission in Dallas is indeed over George W. Bush's house, and a 1 no radius
Ah, I see his house now on the other side of Meaders Ln. Interesting that they don't center the TFR over his house, but I guess that might be for security reasons. Is P-49 over his ranch in Crawford?
Yes, P-49 is still there, though it was substantially modified in 2010 to look more like a TFR. They should remove that permanently and replace it with a TFR.
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- ArcticFlyer
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Re: Question about the Dallas permanent VIP TFR
Isn't a "permanent" TFR kind of a misnomer? It would seem to me that if a restriction is meant to be indefinite it should be charted as a restricted or prohibited area rather than relying on the apparently fickle NOTAM system.
Re: Question about the Dallas permanent VIP TFR
ArcticFlyer wrote:Isn't a "permanent" TFR kind of a misnomer? It would seem to me that if a restriction is meant to be indefinite it should be charted as a restricted or prohibited area rather than relying on the apparently fickle NOTAM system.
It's how they describe them. Restricted and prohibited areas require amending the regulations and require stuff like notice and comment and Congress can get involved. TFRs can be implemented much more easily.
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- GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Question about the Dallas permanent VIP TFR
If it’s going to permanent, and the DFW TFR dates back to 2009, the FAA should follow the APA, file an NPRM, get comments, issue a final regulation. Not, work around the law.
Re: Question about the Dallas permanent VIP TFR
GalaxyFlyer wrote:If it’s going to permanent, and the DFW TFR dates back to 2009, the FAA should follow the APA, file an NPRM, get comments, issue a final regulation. Not, work around the law.
It's temporary...as long as he lives there...lol. It does seem inconsistent that P-49 is permanent over the ranch and there is a TFR over the house in Dallas.
These TFR's seem to be getting abused, however, all over the place. Just look at the one over Beale AFB, which is a weekly renewed TFR since like forever...just make restricted air space and get over the charade already.
Re: Question about the Dallas permanent VIP TFR
adipasqu wrote:GalaxyFlyer wrote:If it’s going to permanent, and the DFW TFR dates back to 2009, the FAA should follow the APA, file an NPRM, get comments, issue a final regulation. Not, work around the law.
It's temporary...as long as he lives there...lol. It does seem inconsistent that P-49 is permanent over the ranch and there is a TFR over the house in Dallas.
These TFR's seem to be getting abused, however, all over the place. Just look at the one over Beale AFB, which is a weekly renewed TFR since like forever...just make restricted air space and get over the charade already.
P-49 was something his administration did using overreach to help his property values and facilitate his recreation. It just happened to stay around, though in a smaller form. It is an exception rather than a rule. It helps that there isn't much around there. It isn't like Trump could do that with Mar-a-Lago, given the proximity to PBI (the big TFRs there were an absolute nightmare), and certainly not Trump Tower (which had a small TFR over it during his entire presidency).
Beale is weird. Beale is a Class C airspace and tons of IFR and VFR traffic transits the area, and there are several busy small airports around it. That TFR goes up to FL180, essentially meaning they want anyone transiting the airspace to be talking and squawking. There really isn't a way of handling that differently, as a hot restricted area generally can't be transited, but hot TFRs can.
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