Hi, probably an unusual question, but every advice from you guys in the sector is pure gold for me.

Long story short, in few months (after ETS from the army) i'll join A&P school (im Eu based, but that doen't matter for the purpose of this question) and since for EASA rules, ill have to study at least 3 years (basic course+practical experience); i'd like to use this time window to finish (already started, but due to the army i had to back it off a little) my bachelor in BA (and then attach to it, someday a Msc in Aviation Managment).
My life idea is to going up the ladder and aim for the best i can achieve (dont want to seems cocky)
I want to become a good, skilled A&P, get tons of experience and then aim for managment/senior roles, especially when my body will start calling his "time out".
As far as i can understood, for those roles, first comes the experience, tons of it, that only a good career in A&P can give you, and then the academics paper, but those are generally a "formality" although they put (like most of certifications) you in a good position.


Am i overreaching? Does the academic path i want to finish will really be usefull in terms of caree devolpement in the future?
thank you in advance

Getting your A&P certainly will not hurt you in higher up management rolls in the future. It could even help you earlier on in your career too. Tech Ops Management at airlines, if you want any job that oversees any maintenance personnel, almost 100% have the A&P requirement. Look at the directors of maintenance at the major airlines and above, including MD’s, VP’s, Senior Vp’s and C (insert any letter that can be used for a fancy name) O’s , none of them have signed a log book, replaced even a bolt, or touched an aircraft in 5-20 years. You could be on the supply chain side, worked directly along side maintenance and engineering, know every component on the aircraft, but without having the A&P license, will not be able to get a job that directly oversees maintenance personnel.

bourbon wrote:

Getting your A&P certainly will not hurt you in higher up management rolls in the future. It could even help you earlier on in your career too. Tech Ops Management at airlines, if you want any job that oversees any maintenance personnel, almost 100% have the A&P requirement. Look at the directors of maintenance at the major airlines and above, including MD’s, VP’s, Senior Vp’s and C (insert any letter that can be used for a fancy name) O’s , none of them have signed a log book, replaced even a bolt, or touched an aircraft in 5-20 years. You could be on the supply chain side, worked directly along side maintenance and engineering, know every component on the aircraft, but without having the A&P license, will not be able to get a job that directly oversees maintenance personnel.

This is 10,000% spot on.

Froost wrote:

Hi, probably an unusual question, but every advice from you guys in the sector is pure gold for me.

Long story short, in few months (after ETS from the army) i'll join A&P school (im Eu based, but that doen't matter for the purpose of this question) and since for EASA rules, ill have to study at least 3 years (basic course+practical experience); i'd like to use this time window to finish (already started, but due to the army i had to back it off a little) my bachelor in BA (and then attach to it, someday a Msc in Aviation Managment).
My life idea is to going up the ladder and aim for the best i can achieve (dont want to seems cocky)
I want to become a good, skilled A&P, get tons of experience and then aim for managment/senior roles, especially when my body will start calling his "time out".
As far as i can position, for those roles, first comes the experience, tons of it, that only a good career in A&P can give you, and then the academics paper, but those are generally a "formality" although they put (like most of certifications) you in a good position.


Am i overreaching? Does the academic path i want to finish will really be usefull in terms of career devolpement in the future?
thank you in advance

A degree might very well be necessary for management. however? having your A&P might well get you in the door as the skill it takes to be a mechanic might not necessarily be useful in a management position. though understanding the processes in Maintenance management,(Line and Overhaul) Quality assurance , Engineering and Planning is. I have my degree and got it to keep my position but I never had to use much of anything I had to learn from getting my degree in getting an airplane back in service once it was out of service, as I knew guys with all kinds of advanced degrees who couldn't manage any situations in a p weekendsinch.
They had no idea of how to prioritize nor deploy their troops to the greatest affect. you can really only learn some things by being in the trenches. though a degree makes your resume look impressive. I found I was best when he chips were down as many times I was designated as a return to servicecoordinator. where I could appropriate whatever resources I needed up to $1M on MY signature alone. It didn't happen often but in 16 years I had the authority a few times, especially over the Holidays of Thanksgiving and Christmas when Christmas was between Thursday and Monday when I might have 50+ Airplanes on the ground needing servicing or even engine changes. I once got an award for managing 35 out of service airplanes in a 4 day period, Until? My boss saw the overtime bill I ran up. He had to be reminded that on a holiday the mechanics were on time and a half just to show up and on Double time after 8 hours. and on that weekend I had 56 airplanes on the ground at SFO alone. Denver and ORD were both swamped with airplanes as well. as maintenance planning wanted EVERY Deferred Item repaired before departure to clear their books and that weekend was their opportunity. with all the outsourced maintenance now it might be different but the management? MIght well be harder as management has to coordinate not only the airline, but the outside vendors as well.

Why would you want to go to management. Don’t let the prestige of the title fool you. You are put on salary. You can be terminated just because. You will be married to your iPhone. You won’t have set hours. No swapping shifts so you can take 3 or 4 day trips. You do want to take advantage of flight benefits.And there will be no opportunity for overtime. There is a dire need for mechanics you can almost select where and who you want to work for. Idiots that push pencils and have a bachelors degree are a dime a dozen. If you want to be an aircraft mechanic instead of wasting time and money. Take extra courses in aviation maintenance. A bachelors degree is what 120-136 credits. Cost at least 30 thousand And it’s not necessary to be a mechanic. My buddy went to an aviation high school he took some additional courses and sat for the exam by the time he was 23 he was down in Atlanta. He owns this huge house with a swimming pool and jacuzzi. The he bought a condo he turned into his man cave. He is working 13 days straight and hitting double time. I have a bachelors and a masters. I own a 2BR apartment in NY. I make 120k a year. I’m working class in NYC. My friend is 15 years younger than me he makes a little less than me and he is balling. He can live anywhere he wants. I know guys who work on the ramp loading baggage . That pull down more money than managers. You have to do what you love.

I recall when one of my former Duty Managers took a Blackbelt team job. I asked him why he was switching from a manager role to a team role. He said half of his crew was making more money than he did due to overtime. He directly had little control if one of our planes made it out of C check on time, but that is the main metric for his bonus. He could try to keep us content so we would work to the goal, but there is only so much there he controlled.

Most of the areas that most effected our ready time he had zero control over. Inspection late finds, engineering delays, parts delivery delays, and so on. He never looked back into a crew manager role and is way more happy with less time spent at work.

I've had my A&P and a B.S. degree for 33 years now. I never made the jump to management. I'm glad I got the degree so the option was there, but I'm happy with my nice well paid hourly job. In a few years i do expect a career change. Hopefully something like checking the next foursome in at a golf course a couple of days a week.

The last two posts are spot on. Delta AMT top out pay is around $60/hour (120k per year). I have heard of line AMTs making over 200k/year with some overtime. Like Dalmd88, I never used my BS degree to jump to management. There is just too much opportunity right now for A&P mechanics.

DL757NYC wrote:

Why would you want to go to management. Don’t let the prestige of the title fool you. You are put on salary. You can be terminated just because. You will be married to your iPhone. You won’t have set hours. No swapping shifts so you can take 3 or 4 day trips. You do want to take advantage of flight benefits.And there will be no opportunity for overtime. There is a dire need for mechanics you can almost select where and who you want to work for. Idiots that push pencils and have a bachelors degree are a dime a dozen. If you want to be an aircraft mechanic instead of wasting time and money. Take extra courses in aviation maintenance. A bachelors degree is what 120-136 credits. Cost at least 30 thousand And it’s not necessary to be a mechanic. My buddy went to an aviation high school he took some additional courses and sat for the exam by the time he was 23 he was down in Atlanta. He owns this huge house with a swimming pool and jacuzzi. The he bought a condo he turned into his man cave. He is working 13 days straight and hitting double time. I have a bachelors and a masters. I own a 2BR apartment in NY. I make 120k a year. I’m working class in NYC. My friend is 15 years younger than me he makes a little less than me and he is balling. He can live anywhere he wants. I know guys who work on the ramp loading baggage . That pull down more money than managers. You have to do what you love.

Mmm... you should leave NY. That might solve alot of your money and angst issues.

Letting the A&Ps run amok the hangar or line isnt a good idea. Its like letting Marines have no one higher than a lance corporal watching them: They will eat the crayons and then guzzle the prop wash. Management is a needed function.

See also: Family time, days off, not wrecking your body.

DL757NYC wrote:

Why would you want to go to management. Don’t let the prestige of the title fool you. You are put on salary. You can be terminated just because. You will be married to your iPhone. You won’t have set hours. No swapping shifts so you can take 3 or 4 day trips. You do want to take advantage of flight benefits.And there will be no opportunity for overtime. There is a dire need for mechanics you can almost select where and who you want to work for. Idiots that push pencils and have a bachelors degree are a dime a dozen. If you want to be an aircraft mechanic instead of wasting time and money. Take extra courses in aviation maintenance. A bachelors degree is what 120-136 cr I worked a 10 hr shift and when my shift was overedits. Cost at least 30 thousand And it’s not necessary to be a mechanic. My buddy went to an aviation hi even had a gripe on it for the next 4 monthsgh school he took some additional courses and sat for the exam by the time he was 23 he was down in Atlanta. He owns this huge house with a swimming pool and jacuzzi. The he bought a condo he turned into his man cave. He is working 13 days straight and hitting double time. I have a bachelors and a masters. I own a 2BR apartment in NY. I make 120k a year. I’m working class in NYC. My friend is 15 years younger than me he makes a little less than me and he is balling. He can live anywhere he wants. I know guys who work on the ramp loading baggage . That pull down more money than managers. You have to do what you love.

that's a pretty one sided argument and it's wrong. you might be the 'Jack of all" at a small airline, but at a Major? It ain't so. my biggest problem was always the same, Manpower. if I didn't have parts? My burden was lighter,, but once the parts arrived? It was guns to the "Wall. we once had a DC-10 that spent an entire summer with no engines and parts robbed down to Parade Rest. when the VP deemed the airplane a basket case we had to get it back in service in 2 weeks. WE installed ALL 3 ENGINES AND AROUND 1600 parts. we got it back in service and I don't think that airplane had any gripes for the next 4 months aside from Tires and Brakes. as it was a domestic DC10.

Some people get tired of being a wrench. It's nice to have options to do either.

Anecdote: I was once an over educated mechanic. My peers all said I wasted time and money on something I wouldn't use and didn't need. At company picnics I spoke to several of the wives of those very same guys. College was the expectation, and reality (some were already in college), for their kids. Pot meet kettle. 30 years later, those guys were still mechs and I had worked in multiple areas of the airline.

It's really about what you want. This is America. Do what you want with your career. You only live once.

[quote="SteelChair logs and sentr the ]Some people get tired of being a wrench. It's nice to have options to do either.

Anecdote: I was once an over educated mechanic. My peers all said I wasta primary fleeted time and money on something I wouldn't use and didn't need. At company picnics I spoke to several of the wives of those very same guys. College was the expectation, and reality (some were already in college), for their kids. Pot meet kettle. 30 years later, those guys were still mechs and I had worked in multiple areas of the airline.
Local mechanics worked under my direct supervision and I cleared the Maintenance logs and sent the maintenance release when they were finished... If you don't have any skills? It's not a job many can do. We got the training on more than one fleet type though we all worked a primary fleet type. i worked the 737 and A320/A319 fleets primarily and the 767and 757 fleet on occasion or on overtime.

strfyr51 wrote:

[quote="SteelChair logs and sentr the ]Some people get tired of being a wrench. It's nice to have options to do either.

Anecdote: I was once an over educated mechanic. My peers all said I wasta primary fleeted time and money on something I wouldn't use and didn't need. At company picnics I spoke to several of the wives of those very same guys. College was the expectation, and reality (some were already in college), for their kids. Pot meet kettle. 30 years later, those guys were still mechs and I had worked in multiple areas of the airline.
Local mechanics worked under my direct supervision and I cleared the Maintenance logs and sent the maintenance release when they were finished... If you don't have any skills? It's not a job many can do. We got the training on more than one fleet type though we all worked a primary fleet type. i worked the 737 and A320/A319 fleets primarily and the 767and 757 fleet on occasion or on overtime.[/quote]

Imho staying a wrench had one fantastic advantage: OT. Managers don't get OT though they get a bonus at most companies. OT is a win win win because profit-sharing (if your company does it) and 401K match both go up also.

SteelChair wrote:

strfyr51 wrote:

[quote="SteelChair logs and sentr the ]Some people get tired of being a wrench. It's nice to have options to do either.

Anecdote: I was once an over educated mechanic. My peers all said I wasta primary fleeted time and money on something I wouldn't use and didn't need. At company picnics I spoke to several of the wives of those very same guys. College was the expectation, and reality (some were already in college), for their kids. Pot meet kettle. 30 years later, those guys were still mechs and I had worked in multiple areas of the airline.
Local mechanics worked under my direct supervision and I cleared the Maintenance logs and sent the maintenance release when they were finished... If you don't have any skills? It's not a job many can do. We got the training on more than one fleet type though we all worked a primary fleet type. i worked the 737 and A320/A319 fleets primarily and the 767and 757 fleet on occasion or on overtime.[/quote][/quote]

Imho staying a wrench had one fantastic advantage: OT. Managers don't get OT though they get a bonus at most companies. OT is a win win win because profit-sharing (if your company does it) and 401K match both go up also.[/quote]

this is true. I was a fleet Maintenance controller and the Mechanic Union acreeded us as Class and Craft, But even before that we were Management but still got overtime as we had to have our shift shortages covered. And we could be assigned mandatory overtime in a pinch. I was pinched a few times and wound up making $9k take home in a month, I was too tired to spend it so I paid my mortgage ahead by 2 months. and spent almost 2 weeks sleeping on the beach at Honolulu. Luckily that never happened again.

One thing to add. Get the degree NOW. It's way easier to stay in school for a couple of more years and get the 4yr done, than to go back later when you realize you want to move on to other things.

I did the B.S. with my A&P and was mostly done with school. Yes I did tack on a one year Avionics program that Delta used to offer. That year was not really fun. The course was easy for me, but the time was rough. Working midnights going to class in the AM for a year straight was hard. I've worked with a few that were going back to get their 4yr. It can be a grind to work and go to class with spouse and family it's even harder.

Plus if you get your A&P first you might be able to pick up some part time work at a local FBO. I knew a few in school that did that.

DL_Mech wrote:

The last two posts are spot on. Delta AMT top out pay is around $60/hour (120k per year). I have heard of line AMTs making over 200k/year with some overtime. Like , I never used my BS degree to jump to management. There is just too much opportunity right now for A&P mechanics.

Just as pay has changed for the AMT's is has changed for management. If you are at a decent major even a line manager should be making about 160K, throw in any incentives and its closer to 180k then there is 401k and profit sharing. Many companies are posting salary ranges in their job postings and I just saw one particular position at a major advertising a starting pay of 160k for an AMT supervisor based on experience. The industry is shifting at all levels within tech ops at the majors.

As for the degree, it really won't come into effect until you get above the director level and start pursuing positions VP and higher. If you have been in the industry long enough and you are the person they want for the position they can make happen with out a degree. You will see jobs that say min. requirements a B.A. or 18 years experience in whatever area the position oversees.

That being said if you want the degree get it now, if you wait you will probably talk about going back to school but never will.

twincommander wrote:

DL757NYC wrote:

Why would you want to go to management. Don’t let the prestige of the title fool you. You are put on salary. You can be terminated just because. You will be married to your iPhone. You won’t have set hours. No swapping shifts so you can take 3 or 4 day trips. You do want to take advantage of flight benefits.And there will be no opportunity for overtime. There is a dire need for mechanics you can almost select where and who you want to work for. Idiots that push pencils and have a bachelors degree are a dime a dozen. If you want to be an aircraft mechanic instead of wasting time and money. Take extra courses in aviation maintenance. A bachelors degree is what 120-136 credits. Cost at least 30 thousand And it’s not necessary to be a mechanic. My buddy went to an aviation high school he took some additional courses and sat for the exam by the time he was 23 he was down in Atlanta. He owns this huge house with a swimming pool and jacuzzi. The he bought a condo he turned into his man cave. He is working 13 days straight and hitting double time. I have a bachelors and a masters. I own a 2BR apartment in NY. I make 120k a year. I’m working class in NYC. My friend is 15 years younger than me he makes a little less than me and he is balling. He can live anywhere he wants. I know guys who work on the ramp loading baggage . That pull down more money than managers. You have to do what you love.

Mmm... you should leave NY. That might solve alot of your money and angst issues.

Letting the A&Ps run amok the hangar or line isnt a good idea. Its like letting Marines have no one higher than a lance corporal watching them: They will eat the crayons and then guzzle the prop . Management is a needed function.

See also: Family time, days off, not wrecking your body.

I was a maintenance controller at United. I did get overtime and double-time on my 6th and 7th day off working. I didn't get OT for working more than 8 hours as we worked 12 hour shifts 4 on 5 off I rarely worked more than 7 days in a row but it wasn't unusual to have to. I could easily make more on overtime when I did at more than my regular hourly salary of $46/Hr. and that was in 2016. In my final year.. I made the mistake of working OT to the tune of $154K and got royally Raped in Taxes.