Sorry if it sounded like a preposterous idea, but considering how expensive it is to field a fighter even for a short time, it's something that I wondered about. Let's say a private pilot on a Bonanza wandered into R-4808N restricted airspace, for some reason decided to mute his headset speaker or simply in the wrong frequency so he didn't hear any warnings directed for him and escorted out by two F-22s.
Of course, probably just that single flight of two raptors probably cost as much as a brand new G36, so I don't think they'd ask him to pay for all of it, but do they still send a very hefty bill named something like "Fighter dispatch surcharge" or something, like in the region of few tens of thousands? It'd be a way bigger deterrent than the jets themselves, since they wouldn't shoot down any civilian single engine piston plane in any Western country.
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Re: If a private pilot is intercepted by fighter jets, will he be sent a bill?
No, they won't. There might be certificate action though.
Re: If a private pilot is intercepted by fighter jets, will he be sent a bill?
It’s great training. They should pay the private piloy for his role in it;-)
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- RetiredWeasel
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Re: If a private pilot is intercepted by fighter jets, will he be sent a bill?
Unless there just happened to be fighters in the air during a red flag or other training, then the wayward Bonanza would unlikely be intercepted by fighters at all. NORAD does not maintain any fighter alert squadrons in the vicinity. However, the incursion would be detected and tracked and as someone else mentioned, certificate action would be probable.
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- GalaxyFlyer
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Re: If a private pilot is intercepted by fighter jets, will he be sent a bill?
In R-4808N, you’d be intercepted, alright. It’s “the box”, Groom Lake, Area 51. Anyone, even a wayward military jet will get intercepted, directed to land and be, say we say, interrogated. The SPs in the Vegas ranges have plenty of resources, including helicopters and planes to investigate any intruders.
The errant pilots who flew in there during RF, got intercepted, debriefed. They never, ever spoke a word.
The errant pilots who flew in there during RF, got intercepted, debriefed. They never, ever spoke a word.
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- RetiredWeasel
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Re: If a private pilot is intercepted by fighter jets, will he be sent a bill?
GalaxyFlyer wrote:In R-4808N, you’d be intercepted, alright. It’s “the box”, Groom Lake, Area 51. Anyone, even a wayward military jet will get intercepted, directed to land and be, say we say, interrogated. The SPs in the Vegas ranges have plenty of resources, including helicopters and planes to investigate any intruders.
The errant pilots who flew in there during RF, got intercepted, debriefed. They never, ever spoke a word.
On a sunday with no RedFlag or other exercise going on? There are no alert fighter aircraft that are tasked to due that. Closest is probably Fresno and that would take a while.
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- GalaxyFlyer
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Re: If a private pilot is intercepted by fighter jets, will he be sent a bill?
From my two guys that worked Area 51, they had helicopters available. It’s really secured, can’t say about an alert fighter, but it won’t be missed and they will track them down.
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- Trimeresurus
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Re: If a private pilot is intercepted by fighter jets, will he be sent a bill?
GalaxyFlyer wrote:From my two guys that worked Area 51, they had helicopters available. It’s really secured, can’t say about an alert fighter, but it won’t be missed and they will track them down.
Wouldn't attack helicopters be too slow to intercept a powerful turboprop?
Also someone can admit to working in Area 51? I thought it was like the Fight Club
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- GalaxyFlyer
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Re: If a private pilot is intercepted by fighter jets, will he be sent a bill?
You can’t outrun the speed of light, er, radio waves. Go ahead and try it, let me know what the interrogation was like.
https://www.popularmechanics.com/milita ... 1-history/
https://www.sandboxx.us/blog/this-is-wh ... r-area-51/
https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/sho ... d-1584482/
https://www.popularmechanics.com/milita ... 1-history/
https://www.sandboxx.us/blog/this-is-wh ... r-area-51/
https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/sho ... d-1584482/
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- Trimeresurus
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Re: If a private pilot is intercepted by fighter jets, will he be sent a bill?
Just because you saw a guy on the radar doesn't mean you'll be able to apprehend him. Best bet is to alert the law enforcement agencies in every possible GA airport that he might be landing at(assuming he's not stupid enough to leave his transponder on and follow civilian ATC procedures), but in Nevada there will be plenty of opportunities to bail off mid air before it comes to that.
I'd be really surprised if they're not keeping at least two F-22s ready to be scrambled in a place that's supposedly the most private shrine of the feds. Sure, if the Chinese wanted to spy, there are a lot more other methods than a guy in a Bonanza, but why willingly have a security hole? Many espionage incidents in history have been carried out with very crude and low-tech methods, simply exploiting vulnerabilities and flaws in protection.
I'd be really surprised if they're not keeping at least two F-22s ready to be scrambled in a place that's supposedly the most private shrine of the feds. Sure, if the Chinese wanted to spy, there are a lot more other methods than a guy in a Bonanza, but why willingly have a security hole? Many espionage incidents in history have been carried out with very crude and low-tech methods, simply exploiting vulnerabilities and flaws in protection.
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- GalaxyFlyer
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Re: If a private pilot is intercepted by fighter jets, will he be sent a bill?
Right off the bat, turn off the transponder of ADS-B and the FAA is coming after your certificate. Just Ask Martha Lunken. They made that a serious violation as it is seen as an effort to avoid detection.
Re: If a private pilot is intercepted by fighter jets, will he be sent a bill?
You can be detected, tracked, and/or engaged with or without a transponder.
Once a track is assigned to your primary return, you’re given a track number and that’s how you’re known and tracked. your course, speed and altitude is determined without any transponder or ads-b info.
Your track history from detection, point of origin, current location, track behavior, any emitters from your track and noncooperative threat recognition, responses or lack of response to challenges are used to classify and ID you and to determine what to do with you.
So turn off the transponder / ADS-B off if you want. It won’t change the outcome.
Once a track is assigned to your primary return, you’re given a track number and that’s how you’re known and tracked. your course, speed and altitude is determined without any transponder or ads-b info.
Your track history from detection, point of origin, current location, track behavior, any emitters from your track and noncooperative threat recognition, responses or lack of response to challenges are used to classify and ID you and to determine what to do with you.
So turn off the transponder / ADS-B off if you want. It won’t change the outcome.
Re: If a private pilot is intercepted by fighter jets, will he be sent a bill?
It’s a good question actually
I believe some private pilots and / or airlines have been billed for interceptions in Europe
I believe some private pilots and / or airlines have been billed for interceptions in Europe
Re: If a private pilot is intercepted by fighter jets, will he be sent a bill?
If the squadrons that are responsible for the interceptions is anything like the Navy, the money has already been allocated in an operations budget whether the planes fly for an actual intercept, fly for other operational reasons, or for fly for training.
I guess the intercepted pilot could be billed for the intercept, but who would spend the time to calculate the cost, who would issue the bill and who would collect it? The squadron who does the actual intercept isn’t going to see money for it even if the intercepted pilot is billed and pays for it.
Every year, during the last week of September, every military command/unit is on an extravagant spending spree with no fiscal responsibility or restraint because all this extra money magically appears from higher headquarters with the directive to spend it all by Oct 1…. and you have to fly, burn the fuel, expend all of it, spend, spend, spend it all before Oct 1, so your budget for the next fiscal year isn’t cut because you didn’t spend all of your budget.
Money is a problem and it’s not a problem.
I guess the intercepted pilot could be billed for the intercept, but who would spend the time to calculate the cost, who would issue the bill and who would collect it? The squadron who does the actual intercept isn’t going to see money for it even if the intercepted pilot is billed and pays for it.
Every year, during the last week of September, every military command/unit is on an extravagant spending spree with no fiscal responsibility or restraint because all this extra money magically appears from higher headquarters with the directive to spend it all by Oct 1…. and you have to fly, burn the fuel, expend all of it, spend, spend, spend it all before Oct 1, so your budget for the next fiscal year isn’t cut because you didn’t spend all of your budget.
Money is a problem and it’s not a problem.
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