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MD11DC10
Topic Author
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 1999 3:36 pm

767 Mystery Question

Mon May 08, 2000 12:50 pm

Recently I took a flight from MCO to PVD with a DL 767. I have flown them many times before, and I always take a window seat over the wing to observe what is going on. This time though, I saw something that I have never seen before. I don't know if I was just seeing things or going crazy or what but I saw a section of the wing about the size and shape of a large shoe box, lift out of the surface of the wing and extend up roughly 3-4 inches for about 5 seconds and then disapear (go down, retract, descend) back into the wing. This section of the wing where I saw this thing, was relativly close to the passenger windows on the wider part of the wing. This happened around the time the undercarrage was being lowered for landing.

Can anyone please tell me what I saw, or might have seen. Perhaps heavyjet knows.

Thanks In advance,

Md11Dc10
 
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RE: 767 Mystery Question

Mon May 08, 2000 12:56 pm

It sounds like you saw the inboard aileron. This is used at high speeds (during cruise) to move the aircraft about its roll axis, when the outboard ailerons are ineffective. I may be wrong, but I think that although the outboard ailerons lock during high speed, the inboard operate throughout the flight envelope, I'd have to go check to make sure, but I'm pretty sure thats what your talking about.
 
MD11DC10
Topic Author
Posts: 70
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RE: 767 Mystery Question

Mon May 08, 2000 1:04 pm

While that could be a possibility, this thing came up in the middle of the wing, between the traling and leading edges. I think an alieron would be located closer to the traling edge. This thing looked like someone about to come out of a man hole in the street. It just lifted up about 3-4 inches and then went back down again.
 
pmk
Posts: 609
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RE: 767 Mystery Question

Mon May 08, 2000 1:50 pm

It's commonly known as a trim tab, the same surface appeared on landing to slow the A/C down didn't it? I'm betting that's what you saw, there isn't much else that can do that.

Peter
 
AAR90
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RE: 767 Mystery Question

Mon May 08, 2000 4:42 pm

Sounds like one of the spoilers deployed slightly.
*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
 
dc10
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RE: 767 Mystery Question

Mon May 08, 2000 6:20 pm

I think you're right AAR90: spoilers deployed slightly during approach: the spoilers are "in the middle" of the wing, not like the high-speed aileron.
DC10
 
FDXmech
Posts: 3219
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RE: 767 Mystery Question

Mon May 08, 2000 9:52 pm

What I think you saw was the main landing gear pop up door. When the main gear is cycled up or down, the top of the gear where the hydraulic retract actuator meets at the top of the trunnion contacts the upper wing surface which pops up while the gear is in transit. Good observation.
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
MD11DC10
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RE: 767 Mystery Question-FDXmech

Mon May 08, 2000 11:29 pm

Yes! That's it FDXmech. It just popped up and went back down with the gear cycle. Thank you all very much. Now that I know what it is I actually saw, I can sleep at night!  

FDXmech, is there an actual name for that wing surface that pops up?
 
NKP S2
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RE: 767 Mystery Question

Tue May 09, 2000 7:00 am

As FDX mech says,it's a landing gear pop-up door...and that's just what it's called. It is there because,on the 767,the MLG retract actuator rod end swings an arc (during travel) that is ever so slightly higher than the upper camber of the wing. The spring loaded door moves up when the arc of the actuator/gear hits it. It moves so little it's usually hard to notice when it pops up.
 
Airgypsy
Posts: 130
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RE: 767 Mystery Question

Wed May 10, 2000 4:22 pm

The Landing Gear Actuator Clearance door came into being because the 767 was the first aircraft built in the "box" so to speak. The initial system check of the landing gear resulted in the composite panel over the landing gear well being demolished when the actuator arm carried the actuator rod above the panel lower surface (as told in AWST). The spring that holds the door down in flight is huge.
 
KIGuy52
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Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2005 6:06 pm

RE: 767 Mystery Question

Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:56 pm

Wow..somebody should post a picture of that.
 
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HAWK21M
Posts: 30120
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RE: 767 Mystery Question

Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:32 pm

Quoting NKP S2 (Reply 6):
landing gear pop-up door...

Interesting.
Any Links/Pics.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
wilax
Posts: 448
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RE: 767 Mystery Question

Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:21 am

I noticed that on an AA762 a long time ago but never thought to ask. I figured that it had something to do with the gear because of the timing.
 
air2gxs
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RE: 767 Mystery Question

Tue Mar 22, 2005 8:57 am

Quoting Airgypsy (Reply 7):
The initial system check of the landing gear resulted in the composite panel over the landing gear well being demolished when the actuator arm carried the actuator rod above the panel lower surface (as told in AWST

In B767 training I was told that the door existed because the aircraft was originally designed with a smaller gear footprint (this would be the B767-100, which was never produced). The aircraft, due to its footprint, would not be able yo land at certain airports, I believe 2 of them were LGA and SFO. Instead of a major redesign of the gear/wing interface, Boeing had the gear offset. If you ever look at the strut of a B767, you will see that the trunnion is actually inboard of the main strut. This redesign caused a change in the geometry of the gear and required a door be installed in the upper surface to allow clearance.

Anyway, that's what we were taught about 15 years ago.
 
darkblue
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RE: 767 Mystery Question

Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:39 am

I believe the clearance door can be seen slightly open over the wing. If I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will correct me.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Q. Savit

 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: 767 Mystery Question

Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:59 am

That does appear to be the item in the picture.

It is really pretty clever. They were able to get the mechanism into a slightly thinner wing. They could have put a bump there to accommodate it, but that would produce drag all the time. This only adds a tiny bit of drag during the gear swing.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
SkyWestFan
Posts: 165
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RE: 767 Mystery Question

Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:55 pm

Heres another good example of it.....


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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jay Piboontum




I love the 76 to death and I've never noticed this....
Fiji. Its like sex - but better.
 
khenleydia
Posts: 383
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RE: 767 Mystery Question

Tue Mar 29, 2005 12:17 pm

Is this feature on all 76s? Including the 400?

KhenleyDIA
Why sit at home and do nothing when you can travel the world.
 
dl757md
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RE: 767 Mystery Question

Tue Mar 29, 2005 12:39 pm

Quoting KhenleyDIA (Reply 15):
Is this feature on all 76s? Including the 400?

The 767-400 uses the same landing gear as the 777 (with a 4 wheel truck rather than the 6 wheel truck on the 777) The main landing gear struts are straight rather than bent as on the 200/300 and do not require the pop-up door.

Dl757Md
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
khenleydia
Posts: 383
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:18 am

RE: 767 Mystery Question

Tue Mar 29, 2005 1:01 pm

Quoting Dl757md (Reply 16):
The 767-400 uses the same landing gear as the 777 (with a 4 wheel truck rather than the 6 wheel truck on the 777) The main landing gear struts are straight rather than bent as on the 200/300 and do not require the pop-up door.

Thanks for the info. I knew that the 764 had a different main landing gear than the others, I didn't know how different though. I certainly didn't know they used a modified version of the 777 gear.

KhenleyDIA
Why sit at home and do nothing when you can travel the world.
 
nudelhirsch
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RE: 767 Mystery Question

Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:41 pm

You are free to call me a sentimental moron, but after years of learning about aircraft, as a hobby, I am amazed day after day what complexity can be found there.
And people keep asking me why the heck I am an enthusiast...
Putana da Seatbeltz!
 
khenleydia
Posts: 383
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RE: 767 Mystery Question

Wed Mar 30, 2005 8:53 am

Quoting Nudelhirsch (Reply 18):
And people keep asking me why the heck I am an enthusiast...

Because it is so much fun to have all sorts of answers, even if you will never really be able to put them to a pratical use. So when you are sitting next to someone on a 762 or 763, you will be able to answer the question, "What was that thing in the wing that just popped up and then back down?"
 Smile

KhenleyDIA
Why sit at home and do nothing when you can travel the world.
 
Stealthz
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RE: 767 Mystery Question

Fri Apr 01, 2005 10:58 pm

Not on all 767-2/300 only VH-OGT.. just kidding, took several pics of her today.

A couple of months ago I set myself a goal of having pics accepted by A.net, I achieved that and quality stds of A.net are improving my photography... next goal might have to be.. catch that mystery door in operation!!

Regards

Chris
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!....well that might have changed!!!
 
spudsmac
Posts: 300
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Re: 767 Mystery Question

Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:43 am

http://i.imgur.com/TLIF3kt.jpg

Is this the door? I noticed it momentarily pop up as the gear came down. Figured it was there to give part of the gear system extra clearance.
 
Viscount724
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Re: 767 Mystery Question

Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:11 am

spudsmac wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/TLIF3kt.jpg

Is this the door? I noticed it momentarily pop up as the gear came down. Figured it was there to give part of the gear system extra clearance.


Just curious how you found this thread last replied to 11 years ago to resurrect it? Original thread is 16 years old!
 
kabq737
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Re: 767 Mystery Question

Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:51 am

Wow this is really interesting! Thanks for the informative answers!
Been on: 320, 321, 333, 733, 73G, 738, 739, 744, 752, 763, 764, 772, 789, C208, CR7, CR9, BE20, MD83, MD88, MD90, E70, E75, E90, TRIM
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spudsmac
Posts: 300
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Re: 767 Mystery Question

Sun Jul 24, 2016 6:54 am

Viscount724 wrote:
spudsmac wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/TLIF3kt.jpg

Is this the door? I noticed it momentarily pop up as the gear came down. Figured it was there to give part of the gear system extra clearance.


Just curious how you found this thread last replied to 11 years ago to resurrect it? Original thread is 16 years old!


Haha well I just kept searching for different terms in google till I found it. I fly on 767s a lot and will try to get a video of it on the next take-off. It's kinda cool seeing the door open and close.
 
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767333ER
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Re: 767 Mystery Question

Sun Jul 24, 2016 2:44 pm

https://youtu.be/I0YjdiGQB6I

Bottom right corner at 16:45.
Been on: 732 733 734 73G 738 752 763 A319 A320 A321 CRJ CR7 CRA/CR9 E145 E175 E190 F28 MD-82 MD-83 C172R C172S P2006T PA-28-180

2 ears for spatial hearing, 2 eyes for depth perception, 2 ears for balance... How did Boeing think 1 sensor was good enough?!
 
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AirlineCritic
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Re: 767 Mystery Question

Sun Jul 24, 2016 10:04 pm

Very intriguing and interesting engineering! Nice video, 767333ER!
 
Western727
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Re: 767 Mystery Question

Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:44 pm

767333ER wrote:
https://youtu.be/I0YjdiGQB6I

Bottom right corner at 16:45.


Argh! And I thought I knew the 767 well! I can't believe I never noticed this before.
Jack @ AUS
 
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767333ER
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Re: 767 Mystery Question

Tue Jul 26, 2016 10:06 pm

AirlineCritic wrote:
Very intriguing and interesting engineering! Nice video, 767333ER!

I didn't film it myself in case you were wondering.
Been on: 732 733 734 73G 738 752 763 A319 A320 A321 CRJ CR7 CRA/CR9 E145 E175 E190 F28 MD-82 MD-83 C172R C172S P2006T PA-28-180

2 ears for spatial hearing, 2 eyes for depth perception, 2 ears for balance... How did Boeing think 1 sensor was good enough?!

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