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bodobodo
Topic Author
Posts: 545
Joined: Wed May 03, 2000 6:43 pm

Emergency...why PAN PAN Pan?

Mon Jan 29, 2001 4:12 am

I have heard that pilots are supposed to use PAN PAN PAN when in an emergency situation. How was it that this particular phrase came to be chosen for this purpose?

Just curious.
Felix
 
A320FO
Posts: 210
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2000 12:28 am

RE: Emergency...why PAN PAN Pan?

Mon Jan 29, 2001 4:41 am

Hi Bodobodo,
actually the PAN PAN PAN is for urgency situations only, not warranting the declaration of an emergency. The emergency situation will be declared by using the word MAYDAY.
To my knowledge, both are derived from french words. MAYDAY is derived from (excuse my bad french) m'aider (?) which means help me.
Maybe somebody out there knows the origins of PAN. I don't right now, but probably something similar.


A320FO
 
aaron atp
Posts: 517
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 1:17 pm

Pan-pan Pan-pan Pan-pan

Mon Jan 29, 2001 7:11 am

in quotes are the literal translations

Mayday.....m'aidez.....Danger to life.........."help me"

Pan Pan....en panne...Danger to property..."broken down"
-pronounced pahn-pahn

Securite....securité....Danger to safety....."security"

Seelonce...silence.....Maintain radio silence...(seelonce is the way the french tongue is written phonetically into english)

Seelonce Feenee or Seelonce Pru-donce...english phonetic of the french "silence ended" or "prudent silence" respectively
 
sabenapilot
Posts: 3668
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

RE: Emergency...why PAN PAN Pan?

Tue Jan 30, 2001 3:41 am

That's correct:

both are French:

Mayday is derived from the verb 'm'aider' (to help me)
In other words: there is something wrong with my plane and life is in danger.

Pan is derived from the noun 'une panne' (a breakdown)
In other words: there is something wrong with my plane, but life is not in danger.



 
aaron atp
Posts: 517
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 1:17 pm

Linguisitics...

Tue Jan 30, 2001 4:26 am

there is no real difference between "une panne" as sabenapilot stated and en panne, but I'm wondering about the mayday translations: "m'aidez" isn't proper french, as the french (even 75 years ago) would say "aidez-moi"

In that regard, "m'aider" would seem even less appropriate, since it would mean "me to help"


maybe a native french aviator could shed some light on the cryptic origins of mayday?


aaron
 
sabenapilot
Posts: 3668
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

RE: Emergency...why PAN PAN Pan?

Tue Jan 30, 2001 8:05 am

Hello Aaron atp,

Please allow me to clarify on your misconception about my first post.
I live in Belgium (a fully bilingual country), and my father is French speaking, so I speak French at home every day.

Mayday does not come from m'aidez as you say, but from m'aider.
Why?
as the French verb 'm'aider' means 'to help me', asking someone:
aidez-moi
might be gramatically correct, it is something that will be rarely done because it is somewhat strange to order someone you don't know to help you...
Most native speakers will prefer to use:
veuillez m'aider or voulez-vous m'aider?,
because this is more polite.

In both cases you'll find the infinitive if the verb; i.e. (m') aider.

bye,
 
sabenapilot
Posts: 3668
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

RE: Emergency...why PAN PAN Pan?

Tue Jan 30, 2001 8:14 am

Salut Aaron atp,
Si tu veux, on peut aussi continuer en Francais, mais il y aura quelques accents qui manqueraient car mon ordinateur les represente comme des lettres 'i' ou 'u' dans des protocols d'internet.
C'est pour ca que je les laisse tomber.
Enfin, c'est comme tu veux.
Au revoir.
 
aaron atp
Posts: 517
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 1:17 pm

RE:

Tue Jan 30, 2001 2:41 pm

My sincere apologies. I do not speak French fluently and from what little I've learned, I have apparently managed to offend (or insult) you. Pardon my ignorance.

v/r
aaron
 
User avatar
wilcharl
Posts: 1179
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RE: Emergency...why PAN PAN Pan?

Wed Jan 31, 2001 12:24 am

mon dieu
 
A320FO
Posts: 210
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2000 12:28 am

RE: Emergency...why PAN PAN Pan?

Wed Jan 31, 2001 2:34 am

Just a comment on why its french, although aviation language is english:
The radiotelephony (R/T) was derived from earth-bound means of communication, starting with telegraphy and developing into the communication systems we have today. At least in Europe, this has been a postal domain and monopoly, the international language in postal affairs is french (remember the "par avion" / air mail stickers?). At least in Germany, the R/T licence is still issued by a branch of the authority for mail and telecommunication, NOT by the civil aviation authority!

A320FO
 
sabenapilot
Posts: 3668
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

RE: Emergency...why PAN PAN Pan?

Wed Jan 31, 2001 2:35 am

Hello Aaron atp,
No need for apologies my friend; I was not insulted by your post.
Anyway, I confused you with a Canadian guy that I had a huge discussion with on French grammar recently.
That's why I reacted to your post in the first place.
bye,
 
MrFord
Posts: 136
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2001 9:03 am

RE: Emergency...why PAN PAN Pan?

Thu Feb 01, 2001 3:02 pm

Bonjour à vous tous !
Enfin quelques mots français ici ca fait du bien à entendre  Smile

Disons que les expression qu'ils ont trouvé en anglais pour les mots français sont plutôt bizarres !

Enfin il y a le Seelonce que je ne savais pas que l'on prononcais cela de cette manière... par ici (Abitibi - Québec) ce serais plutôt Seelance mais laissons de côté les complexités de la langue de Molière !

Je me demandais une chose... si un pilote québécois (ou français) doit communiquer avec une tour de contrôle québécoise (ou française), sont-ils obligé d'utiliser l'anglais ou le français y est permis ?
"For radar identification throw your jumpseat rider out the window."
 
bodobodo
Topic Author
Posts: 545
Joined: Wed May 03, 2000 6:43 pm

RE: Emergency...why PAN PAN Pan?

Fri Feb 02, 2001 2:07 am

Au Quebec les pilotes peuvent utiliser l'anglais ou le francais. C'est le choix du pilote.

Felix

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