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mrman_3k
Topic Author
Posts: 140
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 7:36 am

Why Are People Affraid Of Turbulence?

Tue Sep 04, 2001 6:55 am

This baffles me, why do people get scared about it, I love whenever a plane goes through turbulence. Also can anybody please explain in a little more technical terms about how turbulence happens and what causes it, if there are any diagrams that would help.
 
Guest

RE: Why Are People Affraid Of Turbulence?

Tue Sep 04, 2001 7:42 am

This must prove ignorance is bliss.. I guess the only reason other than getting sick is the simple fact that severe turbulence can and has been a major factor in aviation accidents and aircraft inflight breakup. Other than that no problem?? Cheers, Max
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 7295
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:25 am

RE: Why Are People Affraid Of Turbulence?

Tue Sep 04, 2001 7:49 am

Turbulence is simply vertical winds without which we would be stuck in our own smog at ground level. How they are created? That will bring us through a complete meteorological study of the climate on planet Earth.

I don't mind a little turbulence when I see it associated with pretty cumulus clouds. But I don't like it either:

1. It subtracts fatigue lifespan from a good airplane.
2. It disturbs work on my laptop.

Last summer (2000) I was cruising on a 757 south of Iceland in air smooth as silk. Suddenly without any warning all hell broke lose. One nano second later the fasten seat belt light went on and the captain instucted in a very firm voice everybody to go to his seat and keep that damn belt tight. F/A's rushed to shelter with their carts.

It soon disappeared, but came back to a lesser degree fifteen minutes later. When it was calm again, then the captain told us the sad news that we would have no dinner served today, but anyway we got it 45 minutes before landing.

Such instances (when more violent) have seriously injured both pax and F/A's and broken bones on them all over when they were thrown from ceiling to floor and visa versa. A few have died from their wounds.

Serious turbulence may also create sometimes unpredictable windshear which over the years has bent much otherwise good metal upon landing.

Turbulence: Nothing to be afraid of, but certainly something to respect!

Smooth landings, Preben Norholm
 
mrman_3k
Topic Author
Posts: 140
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 7:36 am

RE: Why Are People Affraid Of Turbulence?

Tue Sep 04, 2001 7:58 am

I have usually experienced turbulence when landing not that often in cruise. I know a few years back I was in a plane landing in India during the monsoon season and it was very neat in my opinion to feel and see the big wings on a A340 shake and bounce like that, everybody was seated at the time but people were getting worried, there was a lady that screamed at one point as we dropped about a hundred feet or so. I guess that is another question, why would the plane just drop a hundred feet or so?
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 7295
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:25 am

RE: Why Are People Affraid Of Turbulence?

Tue Sep 04, 2001 8:20 am

...why would the plane just drop a hundred feet or so?

Well, from one second to the other the plane moves from air blowing upwards at 25 ft/sec to air blowing downwards at 25 ft/sec. That's everyday life in aviation.

That's a thrill for some people, and if I remember well (if I can remember that far back) then it was a thrill for me when I was a small boy.

In amusement parks they have special "machines" which are purpose built for creating that thrill. I like them better today. Simply because they are purpose built, less violent and more predictable.

...a lady screamed... Why do some people scream in amusement park machines while the rest of us enjoy the view when kicked 100 feet high? Put your grandma into one of those machines and ask her afterwards.  Big thumbs up

Cheers, Preben Norholm
 
Notar520AC
Posts: 1517
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2001 6:53 am

RE: Why Are People Affraid Of Turbulence?

Tue Sep 04, 2001 12:33 pm

In some cases, I enjoy turbulence more than roller coaster rides.
 
jessman
Posts: 1457
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 1:11 pm

RE: Why Are People Affraid Of Turbulence?

Tue Sep 04, 2001 12:49 pm

I have a friend who fears turbulence because she feels that if the plane could fall 100 ft it could fall 35000 feet. I have explained to her that this is irrational and she seems to understand the sheer improbability of such an event happening, but phobias do not need to be rational.
 
tbar220
Posts: 6706
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 12:08 pm

RE: Why Are People Affraid Of Turbulence?

Tue Sep 04, 2001 1:00 pm

Turbulence can be a nuisance too. I was eating dinner on a flight, and the F/A gave me some freshly "brewed" tea, and then I started drinking it when some turbulence started shaking the aircraft. It was pretty hot the tea, and I scalded my hand. It was pretty annoying, not to mention that I spilled some on my shirt.

I don't fear turbulence, unless it is very severe, because there is always that nagging feeling in the back of your head.

 Smile Tzvika  Smile
 
desertjets
Posts: 7693
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 3:12 pm

RE: Why Are People Affraid Of Turbulence?

Tue Sep 04, 2001 1:08 pm

A few bumps here and there isn't anything to worry about. But when your bouncing around like crazy for 15-20+ minutes it gets unnerving. Not only does it play tricks with your inner-ear and your stomach it is generally uncomfortable. I remember an approach into Cleveland where we were in moderate chop almost all the way down. Not the most fun way to spend 30 minutes.
 
SouthRebels
Posts: 166
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2000 3:31 am

RE: Why Are People Affraid Of Turbulence?

Tue Sep 04, 2001 2:02 pm

A couple things......

Mrman_3k.......your first question is retarded and doens't deserve an answer. However, to your credit the second question is an excellent and well thought one, good job.

DesertJets.........I'm not sure how many times you've flown into CLE, but it't my home airport so I do every roundtrip. The 23L approach, which takes you out over the lake and just west of downtown, is notoriously bumpy during the winter months with the strong winds off the lake. Been thee and done that many times.
 
JetRanger2000
Posts: 227
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2000 8:21 am

RE: Why Are People Affraid Of Turbulence?

Tue Sep 04, 2001 2:13 pm

When I fly into SLC, we always get some turbulence on approch. Aborted landing a couple of times, too. I know that the turbulence there is caused by the mountain air rushing down to the flat land.
 
desertjets
Posts: 7693
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 3:12 pm

RE: Why Are People Affraid Of Turbulence?

Tue Sep 04, 2001 2:15 pm

SouthRebels- This was on a approach into 5R from the southwest. Basically we were flying through a brewing snowstorm that later dumped 6 inches overnight in Cleveland.
 
SouthRebels
Posts: 166
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2000 3:31 am

RE: Why Are People Affraid Of Turbulence?

Tue Sep 04, 2001 2:19 pm

DesertJets........snowstorm in Cleveland, never!!!! Just kidding (obviously). I was just pointing out the 23L approach from the Northeast, but yes, amy approach into Cleveland while a front is making a pass can be bumpy, especially in the winter months. By the way, don't you think the 5R approach is boring?
 
Bill Bob
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2001 9:54 pm

RE: Why Are People Affraid Of Turbulence?

Tue Sep 04, 2001 10:55 pm

Max Power said it all, the rest of this is nothing more than rhetoric and replied to by mostly passengers and not aviation experts by any matter of means. Sounds like everyone's little story about a bumpy ride and nothing more. bill
 
SSTjumbo
Posts: 2579
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 3:29 am

RE: Why Are People Affraid Of Turbulence?

Wed Sep 05, 2001 12:59 pm

Landing @ MCO one time, we turned into one of the 36's, and we must have had a front or back wind sheer because the plane would suddenly drop fast. It felt like the back of a school bus going over a big bump in the road when you were in elementary school.
 
silverfox
Posts: 1089
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2001 8:39 am

RE: Why Are People Affraid Of Turbulence?

Fri Sep 07, 2001 8:41 am

I have no problem with a plane dropping 100ft or so at 35000ft.......now at 50ft, thats a different matter!!
 
VS744
Posts: 659
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2001 9:22 pm

RE: Why Are People Affraid Of Turbulence?

Fri Sep 07, 2001 7:44 pm

I flew back from the Canaries to the UK in MArch, and over the atlantic we experienced SEVERE Clear Air Turbulance for 2 hours. During this time, people had been served their meals and it was impossible to collect the trays, a few of which ended up on the floor.

It was themost frightening experience I have ever had, and the pilot updated us every 10 minutes saying things like "we have flown up to 38,000 and down to 25,000 and we cannot get away from it, im afraid we will have to sit it out" and "dont panic, this a/c is designed to handle the sort of conditions we are expereincing"

it was a 757-200 (JMC Air)

However, it has taught me one thing - that turbulence can be extremely severe, and the a/c can handle it.

not very reassuring though at 30,000 feet when you can see the a/c pitching to the left and hear (yes hear) the wind outside!
 
Bill Bob
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2001 9:54 pm

See What I Mean?

Sat Sep 08, 2001 12:30 am

As I post this there are 16 other posts on Turbulence and only one, yes one is listed as a pilot. All others are students 16 yrs. or so and a few grown men that like model planes. Al the rest are passengers. What a waste of time after Max Power's first reply. Are all these post "ops related"??? Bill
 
heavymetal
Posts: 4598
Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 3:37 am

RE: Why Are People Affraid Of Turbulence?

Sat Sep 08, 2001 1:03 am

First of all, enough with the 'you're not smart enough to post here' attitude. If the people posting here aren;t living up to your exalted standards of what proper conversation should be, go run your own friggin website with passwords.

About turbulence. I think laymen get nervous because they assume it is affecting the steady control of the aircraft....most people afraid to fly tend to have fear because they don't understand or have a say in the control of the situation. If a little bump jolts the aircraft, a vivid imagination decides the next one could flip it over. They don't have a clue about the autopilot, the control surfaces , the design of the aircraft....not to mention the presumably very competent people in the front office who know what is normal, what isn't, and how to deal with it.

Tuesday I sat strapped into the tail of a Boeing 737 dropping through late afternoon rain squalls over the Florida Everglades. There were a coupla good shakes as we bounded through the clouds. The girl behind her told her boyfriend how scared she was. He did his best to reassure her.

We got to FLL safe and sound and I found it ironic that the Boeing was bouncing and crunching WAY more just taxiing over bumps and creases on FLL's taxiways than on approach. Yet our girl behind was all smiles.

We fear what we don't understand. It's a natural human instinct.
 
wingscrubber
Posts: 828
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2001 1:38 am

RE: Why Are People Affraid Of Turbulence?

Sat Sep 08, 2001 1:51 am

Turbulence - at altitude, different temperatures of air cause vertical air currents, the basic principle is, cold air goes down, hot air goes up, and if a plane happens to be flying through it, the plane will be taken for a ride.
Hot and cold air tend to form in localised pockets, and so the transition from one to another can be fairly sudden, causing the surprising turbulence that can affect aircraft. It can be dangerous, but in general, is a well considered factor of flying.

Ok, that's my explanation...now, who was this chap that's getting all uppity because some of the posts aren't from expert flyers? What we type here is personal opinion, it's not straight from the textbook, you can chose whether you wish to accept, believe, ignore or challenge the information offered.

By the way...you know the upper deck of a 747? It's full of helium to help the plane lift off. And when they're in flight the wings actually fold away. And the tail becomes a ramjet. 747s actually cruise at mach 25.

Peet
 
Bill Bob
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2001 9:54 pm

Heavymetal

Sat Sep 08, 2001 9:29 am

No attitude here ole chap. I did not write the rules, just try to follow them unlike a lot of others.
[ 23454 posts ]
The more advanced forum for those of you who wants to dig deeper into technical issues as well as airline management and operations. A forum for both professionals and knowledgeable amateurs. Hve a Gday mate
 
Guest

RE: Why Are People Affraid Of Turbulence?

Sat Sep 08, 2001 10:54 am

It felt like the back of a school bus going over a big bump in the road...

LOL...I know what that feels like Big grin

Anyway, I agree with heavymetal. Most of the people that are afraid of turbulence seem to be people who are afraid of flying, have never flown before, or don't fly that often. Many people feel that if they can't see or control the situation themselves, they start to feel threatened or worried about the outcome of the situation.

I don't mind turbulence, but I am also not a big fan of it. I believe that it was a Northwest Airlines plane (correct me if I'm wrong), that entered heavy turbulence, resulting in the death of a flight attendant and the many injurys of other passengers on the flight.

The heaviest turbulence that I have been in was on a BA flight (JFK - LHR). It was noticed ahead of time so the "fasten seat belt" sign was illuminated and everyone and everything was prepared for it. Some bags and other articles fell out of some overhead compartments when they opened up, but that was about it.
 
Twotterwrench
Posts: 1087
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2001 5:57 pm

RE: Why Are People Affraid Of Turbulence?

Sat Sep 08, 2001 12:22 pm

It goes back to the basic human fear of not being in control of your own destiny. You have entrusted your life to some ya-hoo in the cockpit that you know nothing about, and now things are happening to the airplane that you know even less about. It is basic human nature to fear what we don't understand, especially when we have no control over it.
 
SSTjumbo
Posts: 2579
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 3:29 am

RE: Why Are People Affraid Of Turbulence?

Sat Sep 08, 2001 1:11 pm

There is also the annoyance of having "stuff" bump around and fly up into your face. Yeah, I know about the ol' tea scolding your eyes and whatnot.

Bill Bob: Who gave you a wedgie? Having that kind of attitude around here will not get you very far. 'nuff now!!! I'm having to post this kind of thing in the Tech/Ops forum when it should be in the Non-Av forum!!! geeze
 
airplay
Posts: 3369
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 1:58 am

RE: Why Are People Affraid Of Turbulence?

Mon Sep 10, 2001 9:34 am

If you're not afraid of turbulence or at least have a serious respect for it, you truly don't know alot about airplanes and/or your senses are dulled.

Severe turbulence can cause the primary structure to fail if the aircraft is not operated properly. Although airliners are designed to handle fairly severe gust loads, using normal operating procedures it's not hard to exceed the limits if the aircraft.

A fact that not many people are aware of is that some aircraft such as the Airbus line and the L1011 are not designed to the 150% load factors (See FAR 25) that other airliners are designed to. Instead they use stability augmentation devices which control the flight loads and prevent them from exceeding lower predetermined flight loads. This means that a malfunction allbeit a rare one, can cause the flightcrew to overstress the airframe while still operating the aircraft within the operating limitations.

Have you ever felt the aircraft slow down when entering turbulence? This is to reduce the net gust loads on the airframe. The autopilot system in many modern aircraft also have a "turbulence" or "half bank" lateral mode. This mode reduces the gain of the roll channel to further reduce the flight loads on the airframe.

So...even though aircraft are designed to fly through turbulence, the more turbulence that is experienced, the faster the airframe degrades with a corresponding higher potential for disaster. (yes yes...allbeit a tiny potential...but so is slipping in the shower)

 
contrails
Posts: 1314
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2000 11:53 pm

RE: Why Are People Affraid Of Turbulence?

Tue Sep 11, 2001 3:08 am

This is a good topic. I've often wondered how others felt about turbulence.

I don't fear it, because I know the plane can handle more turbulence than the passengers can, and because of my faith I don't fear death. But I don't like turbulence, however, and I'd just as soon avoid it. It is very uncomfortable.

I guess the longest duration of turbulence I ever had was last winter on a flight from LAX to HNL on an AA 767. No matter what the Captain did we kept getting jolted. It seemed we were in it for several hours.

The worse single jolt was over Virginia a few years ago, on an AA 757 approaching DCA. I don't know how far we dropped, but I remember a FA desperately grabbing a seat arm to keep from going through the ceiling.

I don't know what techniques others use, but I've learned that relaxing and trying to sleep gets me through it better than anything else. I also keep my seat belt securely fastened around me. If you have a favorite technique I'd be interested in reading about it.

I believe someday there will be some sort of device that will pinpoint turbulence, much as radar pinpoints weather. Once that occurs flying should be much smoother.
 
pmk
Posts: 609
Joined: Wed May 26, 1999 10:07 am

RE: Why Are People Affraid Of Turbulence?

Tue Sep 11, 2001 3:41 am

Not to beat a dead horse, but:

I experience mild to moderate turbulence every time I go to LAS due to the Mountains. I will give a prime example of why I'm (mildly) afraid of turbulence. I was on an AeroPeru 757 going Lima to Miami. Out of no where the aircraft dropped according to the flight crew one thousand feet. A passenger hit the ceiling (and was luckilly not injured) and several passengers, including myself lost the grip of their drinks, the glass hit the overhead, shatted and covered me with schards. I have no fear of the plane breaking into two pieces and falling from the sky, however I do fear hitting the ceiling, flying objects, etc.

Peter
 
JG
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 1:53 am

RE: Airplay And Others Discussing LAF

Tue Sep 11, 2001 4:43 am

Some additional information. The Load Alleviation Function of the Airbus 320 series may be just a memory. Older 320's still employ the system. With the introduction of the 320 came the use of more composite material than previously used in commercial airliners. With the use of so many composites in the airframe there were concerns about the stresses to the material which over time proved unwarranted.

All of the 320 series aircraft operated at the company for which I work are some of the newest available and not one of them has the system installed. It seems as though LAF may now occupy only a place in Airbus history. I speak only of the 320 series, as I know nothing of the others.
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: Why Are People Affraid Of Turbulence?

Tue Sep 11, 2001 4:08 pm

Considering that a good number of people are afraid of flying, adding turbulence to the mix makes an already nervous person even more uncomfortable. I myself have had no problem with turbulence, with the exception of my first flight about 11 years ago. Of the 50 or so flight legs I have taken in the past 2 years, I have only been in turbulence a few times. One of the last times was in a Comair EMB-120 MCO-TLH, it got so bad that the f/a was barely able to serve drinks. I admit I got a little nervous about being in such a small aircraft going through some rough air. I felt like I was in a ping-pong ball bouncing on a table. Everytime I've flown over the Rockies, I've gotten into some coming off the mountains, sometimes they're not too bad, but the last time I flew to PDX, it shook the plane a touch, a little bit like riding down an old dirt road. The most exciting turbulence was about 2 years ago on an AirTran DC-9 IAD-ATL; we had just taken off and were climbing when we entered some turbulence, it was a cross between the small hills on a roller coaster and riding in a canoe through the wake of a big boat. I was laughing out of pure enjoyment, while several passengers around me were screaming and frightened, I'm sure my giddiness really helped to calm those folks down.
 
sudden
Posts: 3936
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 5:20 pm

RE: Why Are People Affraid Of Turbulence?

Tue Sep 11, 2001 4:24 pm

Hello folks!
Flew to Tunisia ones, and the F/A's started to run with carts and the seatbelt sign went on. The captain told us that we were on our way in to heavy turbulence. After about a minute the aircraft just "fell" about 100-150 feet!!! Panic broke out in the cabin, but no one was hurt. The thing is that before this happend, and after it was no turbulence at all.
Like a road with a big hole in it!
 
sudden
Posts: 3936
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 5:20 pm

RE: Why Are People Affraid Of Turbulence?

Tue Sep 11, 2001 4:37 pm

"Why are people afraid of turbulence?"
How can you ask a question like that?!
I really like flying, but ones I flew to Tunisia, and the seatbelt sign went on. The captain told us that we are heading in to heavy turbulence. How right he was! The aircraft just fell about 100-150 feet just like that. That was really not fun, but on the other hand no one got hurt. The thing that makes me think is that before and after this there were no turbulence at all.
But all of a sudden it was like there were a big hole in the "road".
 
sudden
Posts: 3936
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 5:20 pm

RE: Why Are People Affraid Of Turbulence?

Tue Sep 11, 2001 4:43 pm

sorry my post got in 2 times.
 
Guest

RE: Why Are People Affraid Of Turbulence?

Tue Sep 11, 2001 7:38 pm

Yes it can be annoying. Some flight crews come on the PA and reassure pax and confirm that everything will be done to get out of the rough air.

It is evident for anything upto meduim turbelance that some crews are not that concerned and make know attempt to request new flight level or bearing and accept that it is part and parcel of flying !!

My personal fear is being in the 'lav' when you hit a down or up-draft...can you imagine the consequences !!

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