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LMP737
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TWA MD-80 Integration

Wed Apr 16, 2003 9:35 am

The ex-TWA MD-80's are slowly but surely brought up to AA standards. The first ex-TWA MD-80 to operate under AA's operating certificate was 4XB. It started service April 6. By the end of the year all ex-TWA MD-80's will be converted over to AA's operating certificate. Here's a list of the changes.

AVIONICS:
Caution/Aural warning standardization
EFIS programming standardization
DFGC programming standardization
Removal of ADF #1 and stadardize #2
Removal of the HF radios and control panel
Deactivation of 8.33 KHZ VHF spacing
Standardization of ACARS
Pedestal reconfig
Overhead Panel reconfig
Standardization of cockpit placards
ADAS reconfig
Installation of lighted checklist
Standardization of cabin chimes
Standardization of O2 mask intercom
Standardization of aisle path lighting
Standardization of headset panel
Deactivation of logo lights
Standardization of ships batteries
Paint load distribution circuit breakers white
Standardize battery-off annunciation
Revise the FME pin program pin for -219 engines

INTERIORS
No operating power ports
Entry closet forward of lavs
No extended bins (AA MD-80's have extended bins)
No mid-cabin closet
Soft divider between first and coach
Galley and lav coverings will be hard laminate rather than tapestry on aft faces
Galleys will not be standadized
Lock added to overhead Aft L/H bin for FA storage
Cabin emergency equipment will be the same

SYSTEMS
Wing heater blankets
Cargo fire detection will not be standardized
No pax life vests
No Cabin Pressure Flow Light on first ten A/C. Added latter

So you can see the sort of expense an airline incurs when it buys another.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
Airplanedude
Posts: 15
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RE: TWA MD-80 Integration

Wed Apr 16, 2003 5:09 pm



Thanks for sharing this information!
 
Scott4AA
Posts: 319
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2002 11:36 am

RE: TWA MD-80 Integration

Thu Apr 17, 2003 5:14 am

Once the ex-TWA birds are brought up to AA standards, will they be interchangable with the rest of AA's MD-80's?
American Airlines - We Know Why You Fly
 
LMP737
Topic Author
Posts: 6198
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

RE: TWA MD-80 Integration

Thu Apr 17, 2003 5:28 am

Scott 4AA:

Yes they will be interchangeable.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
trnswrld
Posts: 1390
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 2:19 am

RE: TWA MD-80 Integration

Sun Apr 20, 2003 11:41 pm

Will these aircraft still wear there current TWA tail numbers for as long as they are with AA? for example: (N9615W, N975TW)
 
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DL_Mech
Posts: 2605
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RE: TWA MD-80 Integration

Mon Apr 21, 2003 4:43 pm

Are the Ozark MD-80's (some of which previously flew with AA) included in the AA upgrade?
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.

Former AMT on A220,A310,A319/20/21,A330,A350,B707,B717,B727,B737,B747,B757,B767,B777,DC-9,DC-10,L-1011,
MD-80/90,MD-11
 
Murf
Posts: 158
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RE: TWA MD-80 Integration

Tue Apr 22, 2003 9:29 am

Why deactivate the logo lights?
 
LMP737
Topic Author
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RE: TWA MD-80 Integration

Tue Apr 22, 2003 9:59 am

Because AA MD-80's don't have logo lights and it costs money to replace burnt out logo lights.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
MD-90
Posts: 7836
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RE: TWA MD-80 Integration

Tue Apr 22, 2003 11:53 am

Are wing heater blankets what I'm imagining them to be?
 
LMP737
Topic Author
Posts: 6198
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

RE: TWA MD-80 Integration

Wed Apr 23, 2003 1:09 am

The wing heater blankets keeps the fuel in the wings from getting to cold.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
avioniker
Posts: 1100
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2002 5:38 am

RE: TWA MD-80 Integration

Wed Apr 23, 2003 3:27 am

On a more serious note, the blankets keep ice from forming on the tops of the wings so it won't break off and FOD the engines on takeoff.
On a less serious note; Who said the conversion from TWA to AA standards was an "upgrade"?
In the case of the 9600 series the AA crews are having to learn new systems like the EOAP among others. (It really shouldn't be a big deal but for some reason it is...)
American is notorious for not buying any optional equipment with their new planes. They like 'em bare bones. That way they can keep all those young engineers busy trying to keep up with technology and service bulletins.

Now let's get out there and VOTE!
One may educate the ignorance from the unknowing but stupid is forever. Boswell; ca: 1533
 
LMP737
Topic Author
Posts: 6198
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RE: TWA MD-80 Integration

Wed Apr 23, 2003 5:22 am

Yes, American is very stingy when it comes to options. The one option I wish they picked is an A drive for loading software. It would be nice just to pop in a disc instead of having to lug around a data loader. Southwest was smart and picked this option. Probably saves a little time and you don't have to worry about a broke data loader.

By the way, how should we vote?
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
avioniker
Posts: 1100
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2002 5:38 am

RE: TWA MD-80 Integration

Wed Apr 23, 2003 9:40 pm

the only way to vote is after you get all the facts and can make an educated decision.
If the facts are hidden then the person hiding them should not be considered honorable and not be allowed to lead any company much less one the size of AA.
What do you think?
One may educate the ignorance from the unknowing but stupid is forever. Boswell; ca: 1533
 
avioniker
Posts: 1100
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2002 5:38 am

RE: TWA MD-80 Integration

Wed Apr 23, 2003 10:41 pm

Speaking of...
http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/030423/airlines_american_board_1.html
One may educate the ignorance from the unknowing but stupid is forever. Boswell; ca: 1533
 
LMP737
Topic Author
Posts: 6198
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RE: TWA MD-80 Integration

Thu Apr 24, 2003 1:19 am

Avioniker:

To be honest I'm not sure what to think anymore. It's gotten to the point where the only reason I'm sticking around is to pay the bills and as soon as something else comes along I'm walking. And that's sad, I used to like going to work. Don't get me wrong I still like working on planes but it's where I have to go in order to do that is what bums me out.

So true about someone hiding the facts. The same could be said about a union also.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
avioniker
Posts: 1100
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2002 5:38 am

RE: TWA MD-80 Integration

Thu Apr 24, 2003 1:25 am

LMP
If you want to chat, look me up on the ME training website. I'm the only one listed to teach 737 Avionics in MCI. My phone number is there.
Andy
One may educate the ignorance from the unknowing but stupid is forever. Boswell; ca: 1533
 
Scott4AA
Posts: 319
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2002 11:36 am

RE: TWA MD-80 Integration

Fri May 02, 2003 6:50 am

How many are being converted per month? I am flying through STL in late June and was wondering what my chances of getting a converted MD80 are. Thanks in advance -- Scott
American Airlines - We Know Why You Fly
 
avioniker
Posts: 1100
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2002 5:38 am

RE: TWA MD-80 Integration

Fri May 02, 2003 9:40 pm

Currently we're doing four a month between TUL and MCI. That number will change as manpower and parking status varies.
One may educate the ignorance from the unknowing but stupid is forever. Boswell; ca: 1533
 
smithfly114
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 12:00 pm

RE: TWA MD-80 Integration

Sun Mar 07, 2004 2:14 am

My father is a captian on the '80 with AA and he has told me that the ex-TWA '80s are junk, aparently they were not well maintained or cared for, has anyone else noticed this?
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: TWA MD-80 Integration

Sun Mar 07, 2004 2:27 am

Avioniker said:
On a more serious note, the blankets keep ice from forming on the tops of the wings so it won't break off and FOD the engines on takeoff.


And this has happened, for example with the the SAS MD-80 which lost both engines on takeoff due to clear ice on the wings.


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Guest

RE: TWA MD-80 Integration

Sun Mar 07, 2004 2:59 am

That is the problem with tail mounted engines...
They eat "anything" which comes from the wing, or from under...
In a 727, I lost an engine, because a tyre exploded right on takeoff.
Parts of tyre got in the engine, shearing it off.
My only "major emergency" so far in my career. Knock on wood.
xxx
Happy contrails  Smile
(s) Skipper

 
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Starlionblue
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RE: TWA MD-80 Integration

Sun Mar 07, 2004 3:06 am

"Funny story" with the SAS crash. There was no checklist on the MD-80 for a double engine failure. It was thought too unlikely.

An off duty pilot was onboard. He ran into the cockpit to see if he could help (ok maybe not the best of ideas in normal circumstances, but he said he didn't really think of that at the time). He had actually written, on his own time, a checklist for double engine failure.

But mostly the (flying) pilot said afterwards that his experience with gliders and military aircraft helped. Keep the plane flying. He also used trees to slow down, essentially gambling that they were not big enough to shear off the wings, but strong enough to slow the plane. The aircraft touched down in a field and split into three parts. The only major injury was a girl who was paralyzed for life.

Since the crash, there is a checklist for the situation, and icing check procedures have been revised. The ground crew now has to actually put a hand on the wing, feeling the surface, since clear ice often cannot be seen by eye.


BTW, B747Skipper, in my old world (stock broker) that sort of incident would have made your colleagues call you a "big swinging dick". Yes, it's a compliment.

[Edited 2004-03-06 19:07:27]
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Guest

RE: TWA MD-80 Integration

Sun Mar 07, 2004 3:18 am

Well Starlionblue - my hour was not up yet...
Neither was it for Lockerbie. Clipper 103 was on my monthly roster.
Then all got changed that month, because of delays and rest requirements.
They put me on 103 the day later... I lost many friends in Lockerbie.
Was a JFK base crew, like me.
xxx
(s) Skipper
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: TWA MD-80 Integration

Sun Mar 07, 2004 3:22 am

You have my sympathies. I remember that day so well. Such a waste....
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
smithfly114
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 12:00 pm

RE: TWA MD-80 Integration

Mon Mar 08, 2004 2:27 am

Can anyone confirm what I posted above? As to the quality of the ex-twa 80's?
 
Guest

RE: TWA MD-80 Integration

Mon Mar 08, 2004 3:41 am

Dear Smithfly114 -
xxx
Just an opinion here... in every merge there were the "big guys" eating the "little guys" - and the little guys' airplanes were always "bad"... trash...
xxx
I heard that being said by United pilots who were talking about the trash they got from PanAm... same discussions from the Delta professionals when they talked about the Western planes... And when we, PanAm gods, took the National airplanes, they were bad airplanes as well... How about the Flying Tigers planes taken over by FedEx... and the story goes on.
xxx
Happy contrails -  Smile
(s) Skipper
 
avioniker
Posts: 1100
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2002 5:38 am

RE: TWA MD-80 Integration

Tue Mar 09, 2004 7:00 am

As for the TWA planes being "junk"
every repair station and maintenance base has differing levels of expertise. The same has been said of the AA birds that have gone through other stations.
AA didn't merge with TWA, they bought them out. There was not too much mutual about the integration.
The same complaints have been heard about Piedmont, PanAm, Eastern, National (twice), Mohawk, Allegeny, and too many others when the "new" owners got their first look at the "new" planes.
Different Airlines, different eyes.
Long story made short: TWA's maintenance reliability was the highest in the industry for over ten years before they got bought. Dallas used their stats in their 1992/93 reliability reports and the AA figures came up nearly 20% because of it.
Junque is entirely in the eyes of the beholder.
There are those at what used to be TWA stations that say the TWA planes are really going down hill under the AA maintenance management program.
I'll let someone else be the judge.
I'm in LAS now and lovin' it.
One may educate the ignorance from the unknowing but stupid is forever. Boswell; ca: 1533
 
pilotpip
Posts: 2844
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RE: TWA MD-80 Integration

Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:20 pm

A litttle bird told me that the upgrade program was in danger of being cancelled. I've also heard rumors rumbling about the STL maint. base being closed because of the agreement that was made for MCI to stay open. Can any of you guys shed some light on this?
DMI
 
avioniker
Posts: 1100
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2002 5:38 am

RE: TWA MD-80 Integration

Wed Mar 10, 2004 1:25 am

STL was going away anyway. The runway is going through where the hangars are now. The talk of keeping it open was based on TWA plans to get a new hangar on the other side of the field provided by city money.
Many people believe that talk of keeping STL and MCI is being spread to keep the Missouri government off AA's back long enough for AA to make a safe getaway before Holden notices what happened.
There isn't much left of MCI compared to three years ago, either, and it would appear AA got away with it.
One may educate the ignorance from the unknowing but stupid is forever. Boswell; ca: 1533
 
airlinelover
Posts: 5287
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RE: TWA MD-80 Integration

Tue Feb 22, 2005 7:37 pm

Are you kidding?? An "A" DRIVE?!?!! I'd love to see a pic of that..

Chris
Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
 
dl757md
Posts: 1483
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 9:32 am

RE: TWA MD-80 Integration

Tue Feb 22, 2005 7:52 pm

Quoting LMP737 (reply 11):
The one option I wish they picked is an A drive for loading software. It would be nice just to pop in a disc instead of having to lug around a data loader. Southwest was smart and picked this option. Probably saves a little time and you don't have to worry about a broke data loader.


Quoting Airlinelover (reply 29):
Are you kidding?? An "A" DRIVE?!?!! I'd love to see a pic of that


Most software loads on an aircraft are done with 3.5" floppy disks in an A drive that is either built into the aircraft or contained in a data loader box that is connected to the data load port on the aircraft. Click the link for your pic.

http://www.teledyne-controls.com/pdf/HS_Data_Loader.pdf

Dl757Md
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
boeing767mech
Posts: 806
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 5:03 pm

RE: TWA MD-80 Integration

Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:30 am

I have to differ on the statement that the TWA 80's will be to AA standards. The TWA 80's in my opinion will always be different. There is not way to make them all standard. For example. Some of there airplanes have IRUs or AHRA's which none of aircraft have. To start them you have to select the ignition to a or b or both, on our aircraft you just get in it on go. The RTS check you have to disconnet the NAV antenna's here in BOSTON (check the MM).

I'm not saying there junk. (that title goes to the BUS) I'm just saying that are different and will have be totally standard with the AA metal

Just my .02 cents that Carty didn't get

David
BOS TCC
Never under-estimate the predictably of stupidty

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