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sovietjet
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How To Become A Pilot

Fri Apr 25, 2003 1:20 pm

Ok I have some questions about becoming a pilot. First, what degree do I need to take in college to become a pilot? Second, do I need straight A's in high school to become a pilot? Third, I've been looking at another thread and I just wanna get this clear: Do I need to be in the top aviation school so I could become a pilot or it doesn't matter? Right now I'm a sophmore in high school with high hopes of becoming a pilot. I'm just curious to find out what requirements need to be met. for example my GPA is around 3.6 I am in honors math and accelerated science. Is that good? What fields of educatuion do I need to study heavily? I'm guessing math and physics. And if I don't get hired as a pilot what other jobs are available where I would work near planes "in action" so to say. Thanks
 
Pilot1113
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RE: How To Become A Pilot

Fri Apr 25, 2003 1:27 pm

Go to Jetcareers.com.

- Neil Harrison
 
jhooper
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RE: How To Become A Pilot

Fri Apr 25, 2003 5:19 pm

Get your college degree, it doesn't really matter what field. Next, find a way to get 1200 hours flying time and 200 hours multi engine. Most people I know do this by becoming a flight instructor, or by joining the military. It's hard to say what the economy will be doing by the time you are ready for a career, but most projections I've seen show that they're going to need a lot of pilots to fill seats by the time you graduate from college (2009)
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Guest

RE: How To Become A Pilot

Fri Apr 25, 2003 9:51 pm

You're old enough to start now, so when you can swing it go take an introductory lesson at an airport near your home. Many FBOs or flight schools offer these at discounted rates. And one more thing, keep out of trouble and stay away from drugs. Any kind of a record now will really be a problem later on when you are trying to establish your career.
 
sovietjet
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RE: How To Become A Pilot

Fri Apr 25, 2003 11:17 pm

jetguy -
I got in trouble at school because they suspected I smoke. Do you think that would go on my record? what are multi-engine hours?
 
ben
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RE: How To Become A Pilot

Fri Apr 25, 2003 11:50 pm

Jetguy refers to an actual official record.... someone who 'suspects' you of smoking while at school can go and take a running jump!

Multi-engine hours are ones you have flown, as a member of the crew, on an aircraft with multiple engines  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

...hours-aint-hours.. its which type of hours you have that is often important.
 
sovietjet
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RE: How To Become A Pilot

Fri Apr 25, 2003 11:56 pm

would getting suspended for 3 days be an official record? according to my dean he said I had rolling paper when it was actually just a piece of paper dat looked like it. I never smoked or anything but I got suspended for bullshit.
 
Guest

RE: How To Become A Pilot

Sat Apr 26, 2003 12:08 am

Ivan,
Don't worry about that, that's not the type of trouble that I'm talking about. That won't count against you directly, but I'd highly reccomend that if you do smoke or use any type of tobacco you stop. Years ago, it was very common to see pilots smoking. Now days pilots who smoke are very rare indeed - it's hard enough to keep a medical until your 60 without doing stupid things to your lungs. It goes without saying that "recreational" drug usage of any type isn't tolerated, nor is abuse of prescription drugs. Same things goes for the abuse of alcohol - you read in the newspapers all of the time about pilots taken off of flights when alcohol is detected. These types of abuse can be career enders. Those are the things that you shouldn't do. What you need to do is get good grades, get a life (be a "well rounded" person), and stay out of trouble. Also, plan on going to college and getting a degree.

Like I said in my original post, you ought to consider taking an introductory lesson. Flying lessons are expensive, but most kids spend far too much time playing computer games - the time might be better spent getting a job and saving for flying lessons. A license while your still a teenager will give you a head start on the others.
 
sovietjet
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RE: How To Become A Pilot

Sat Apr 26, 2003 3:08 am

jetguy -
I have a job and I'm savin money primarily for drivers license course and I do play computer games mostly FS2002. How much is a typical flying lesson? By "good grades" do you mean straight A's because I have A's and B's. I just talked to my dean and he said that the suspension thing isn't going on my record so that's good. I'll go to my local airport as soon as I can.
 
jhooper
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RE: How To Become A Pilot

Sat Apr 26, 2003 3:40 am

Howdy Sovietjet,

When we say record, we're talking about a "criminal" record, such as an FBI rap sheet or felony convictions. Misdemeanors aren't good either, but definitely stay away from MIPs, DWIs, and other acts which show you to be a "dishonest" person (like shoplifting). If you weren't issued a citiation or arrested by a police officer for underage possession of tobacco, then you don't have a record. And even if you were, you probably went to "teen court" or somthing else to keep it off your record. School disiplinary records aren't going to hurt you. In fact, at my school these records are destroyed (shredded) within 6 months after you graduate. Traffic tickets can be a problem if you accumulate them excessively, so try and keep a clean driving record. Almost everyone (especially young people) recieves a ticket every now and then. I have one ticket in my 7 years of driving, although I took defensive driving to dismiss it. Just try not to make a habit out of it.

In high school, you should make the grades that will get you into the college you want to get into. Since grading standards vary from school to school (i.e. straight A's at one school may be just as good as A's and B's from a more difficult school or honors courses), college admissions officers usually look at some combination of SAT/ACT scores, your class rank, the degree to which you challenged yourself in school (i.e. did you only take the minimum required math and science, or did you go on to take AP Calculus and Physics), and your extracurricular activities (I mention this last, but your out of school activities can be just as important as grades). For example, at my college they automatically admitted you if you were in the top 10% of your high school class, then if you were in the top 25%, you had to score something like 1000 on the SAT. If you were in the top 50%, you had to score something like 1100 on the SAT. Once you're in college, your high school grades will probably never be evaluated again. Then you're priority is to get your degree and earn the best grades that you can while participating in extracurricular activities (or work) and building your flight time. Get through your ratings (Private, Instrument, Commercial, Multi Engine, CFI, CFII, MEI).

To answer your question about the cost of flying lessons, it varies by region of the country. I'm really not sure what it costs in Chicago, but what you can do is perform a web search and look up different flight schools in the area; they usually post what they charge on their website. Try http://www.airnav.com and look up some airports and they will provide the links you need. Down here in Texas, you can expect to spend anywhere between $3500 and $5000 to earn your private. I've seen Cessna 150s that rent as cheap as $40 per hour and CFIs who charge as little as $15 per hour. On the other hand, you might find a school who only operates a fleet of Cessna 172s for $70 per hour with instruction that runs at $25 per hour. The FAA minimum flight time to finish your training is 40 hours, but I did most of my training before I was old enough to get a license and wound up with 65 hours before I took my flight test. Few people actually finish up in 40 hours. Ground school and materials run around $300, an FAA medical is about $70, the written test is about $70, and the pilot examiners fee can run between $200 and $450. These are all expenses that you must consider.

I hope this helps.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
dragogoalie
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Re:

Sat Apr 26, 2003 3:50 am

About the smoking, we had the man who is in charge of hiring at Alaskan Airlines come talk to our class last semester and he said they absolutely will not hire anyone who smokes. He said its been taken to court and Alaskan won because they proved that smokers often have risky behavior.

--dragogoalie-#88--
Formerly known as Jap. Srsly. AUSTRALIA: 2 days!
 
sovietjet
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RE: How To Become A Pilot

Sat Apr 26, 2003 6:37 am

dragogoalie -
I dont smoke, they just think I do.
 
sovietjet
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RE: How To Become A Pilot

Sat Apr 26, 2003 6:45 am

btw what's the typical life of a pilot? do you fly everyday? do you get seperated from your family alot?
 
sovietjet
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RE: How To Become A Pilot

Sat Apr 26, 2003 7:38 am

hey guys if it costs up to $70 per hour that's like $84000 for all those 1200 hours. I'm sure there's a way to get those hours without paying $84000. What are some choices? I'm thinking flying cargo? I dont wanna go military but how much hours would I need to fly for like Fed Ex or UPS? Or maybe there is something else I could do for those hours? Also do I earn all those licenses on planes like Cessna 150 or Cessna 172? Im sure multi-engine requires something bigger. What exactly do I fly to earn all that? How many hours are needed for each license? Does it cost more as you try to get the next license? How do I become an instructor? $84000 plus expenses for college is probably at least 150 grand. Right now the problem for me is getting those hours.
 
Guest

RE: How To Become A Pilot

Sat Apr 26, 2003 8:58 am

Dear Ivan -
xxx
I assume your ultimate goal is airline pilot... I see you are in the US, so here are some suggestions for your case -
xxx
Continue your education, go as pilot to Air Force or Navy for some 5 years, where you get training on high performance aircraft and attempt to acquire experience on "large jets" such as transports (C-5, C-9, KC-10, C-141, E-3, etc.), then transfer to the reserves, and apply for airlines... Having large jet experience, will put you in the group of the top qualified applicants, and you can always fall back on active duty, in case of a furlough... OR...
xxx
Continue your education, and learn to fly privately, through a small jet rating qualification, such as Citation or Learjet, fly a couple of years or more in corporate operations, while applying with airlines... at least you will have jet experience... Having "Cessna 172 Heavy" only, as experience to apply for airlines makes it rather difficult to be selected, you would have probably to spend a few years with flying "commuter type" airplanes, with a miserable schedule and salary, before qualifying...
xxx
I personally qualified through the Air Force, then AF Reserves, the doors were wide open when I applied with airlines in 1968-69, I got hired by PanAm, the interview took a mere 10 minutes... Jet transport experience made it easy... Two pilots failed in my PanAm class, they never had flown large planes...
xxx
My best wishes to you, Ivan...  Smile
(s) Skipper
 
Guest

RE: How To Become A Pilot

Sat Apr 26, 2003 9:57 am

Dear Ivan - just saw your last lines...
xxx
You do not want to go in the military... sad... Their training is worth nearly a million dollar, in T-38 or similar... Besides they feed you, you travel worldwide, fund extra education, and pay you more than pilots at the "Delta Connection" or "American Eagle" or similar...
xxx
UPS and FedEx... Well, I know about FedEx... Most of their new hires are generally ex-Air Force or Navy, I understand they prefer Navy...
xxx
Commercial, Instrument and Multiengine, then a Learjet rating will probably cost you a lot, however with the baby-jet rating, a corporate operator might consider with only 500 hours total time, since you would have a jet type rating...
xxx
You think about the life of a pilot... well with the airlines it is quite OK, at home some 15 days per month as an average... but if you are a CFI, or a "United Express" co-pilot, you cannot even afford to pay apartment rent, so even if you can be home nearly each night, you will not have a spouse to accept that type of salaries...
xxx
I dont know what to say... you asked me, so I answered the best I could  Smile
(s) Skipper
 
DE727UPS
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RE: How To Become A Pilot

Sat Apr 26, 2003 12:11 pm

Ivan...

Your grades are fine. I was a straight B student in high school....plus I had 20/200 uncorrected vision.

The kids I hang out with interchange the word "smoking" with weed or cigarettes. Don't get a weed offense. I've known kids that overcame high school criminal records to become quite successful, but it took some luck and luck isn't something you want to always count on. I know you didn't "do it", but I also know how easy it is to be tempted do go the wrong way when you're a kid....I see it every day. It sounds like you got suspended for a few days....nobody will care by the time you start filling out pilot applications. That's years down the road...what looks bad is a felony or a DWI just before you start looking for a job.

You will have to save up to pay your way through the flight ratings up to CFI and about 300 hours. Beyond that, you'll be paid to fly...maybe not much but it's a step in the right direction.

It takes a minimum of 40 hours and 17 years old to get your private license. A private should cost you around 4 or 5K. To get to the point where you can instruct is hard to estimate a cost for....it really depends on how you approach it.

Right now, you should get a job and start working on your private license. Are you parents supportive of your desire to fly? I started when I was 17 but was doing the book work at 16. I worked at a hardware store and later pumping gas at the airport when I was in high school.

The best site for answers to your questions is www.jetcareers.com
Have you been there yet?

Being an airline pilot is hard on the family life. You must have an understanding spouse...divorce rates for pilots are quite high. I chose to remain single but many guys have families. I wouldn't worry about that stuff now, if you want to fly you should pursue it and the rest will fall into place.

UPS and Fedex are some of the most coveted jobs now. It wasn't always that way....I've always been a lowly freight dawg and got on at UPS after being turned down by Continental and World Airways. Because of the weaknesses of the passenger business and the strength of the freight business....I think you'll see the freight jobs being hardest to come by in the near future. Hopefully, the pax biz will turn around soon and things will be back to "normal".

 
sovietjet
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RE: How To Become A Pilot

Sat Apr 26, 2003 1:50 pm

hey guys thanks a lot I'll take your advice into consideration and yes my parents support me but they think I need straight A's I guess you just proved them wrong
 
flightsimfreak
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RE: How To Become A Pilot

Sat Apr 26, 2003 2:39 pm

Sovietjet... I got in to a few prestigious flying colleges this year on a 2.8 GPA on a 4.0 scale... I slack off... Oh well. I did have a 1420 SAT though. I'm in at U of North Dakota (UND) and Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University (ERAU). I'm going to be attending UND next year because Riddle didn't offer me enough money. Does that answer your questions about grades?
 
CcrlR
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RE: How To Become A Pilot

Sun Apr 27, 2003 12:20 am

If you need money for school some companies and organizations have scholarships(some aviation related like the EAA and some from other companies.) you can tryHttp://www.fastweb.com for scholarship information. I put some info about myself and I found almost 50 scholarships and I'm waiting for a response. I'm going to be going to Lewis University and they have some scholarships and I have gotten one now and I already have applied for more. About flight schools, they vary from price. As for me living in Chicago, there are two that I know one is at Midway Airport and another one is at Palwaukee Airport. They both vary in price but offer different ways of learning the plan but I would suggest getting some hours on in a flight school and if you can get your pilot's license, it can save money and time and you can be ahead of certain stuff but if you can get some time behind the controls so you can be familiar with the plane.

I will have some more information for you later but I'm not going to be a pilot(I'm just getting my pilot's license), I'm going to be a Aircraft mechanic but it never hurts to know how to fly too!  Laugh out loud
"He was right, it is a screaming metal deathtrap!"-Cosmo (from the Fairly Oddparents)
 
jcxp15
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RE: How To Become A Pilot

Sun Apr 27, 2003 4:44 am

Here's the easiest solution for you, and the cheapest.. IF you've got a GPA over 3.5, SAT's around 1300 and a lot of extracurricular activities including leadership positions then consider the United States Air Force or Naval Academy. I chose Air Force, even though they say Navy has the best flying, I'd rather be on land than on a ship for 6 months...
If you don't want to go to the Academies (which are free, they give you a state of the art laptop and pay you a monthly stipend, as well as a disciplined education) then consider AFROTC. AFROTC allows you to go to a regular college, and they will still give you a monthly stipend. When you graduate you go into active service for at least 5 years non-flying or 10 years flying.

Basically the USAFA or AFROTC (or the USNA or NROTC) are the best ways to go. If you really have good grades, good SAT's and a lot of involvement in your school, as well as are fit and motivated, then apply to the Academies, they're the best deals out there, especially in this economy. And, with such an education, after you graduate, you're pretty much guaranteed a job. I've spoken to quite a few professionals in the aviation industry who say that almost every airline will take a military pilot (especially an academy graduate) over a civilian one if they both have the same qualifications. Also, military will pay you to learn how to fly, where as you could be shelling out close or over $100,000 just to learn on your own, and will be considered under a military person with similar qualifications.

Anyway, it's something for you to think of... If you've got A LOT of money and a lot of time and patience and you'd rather go with your own route, then go ahead with that.. But if you want to be paid to learn how to fly, have one of the best educations out there, take courses such as "parachuting" and "soaring", and be given exceptional benefits, consider the Academies or ROTC.
If the commitment is worrying you, think of it this way. If you go the civilian route, you're going have to go to college, pay a lot of money for flight training, then after you graduate have to either pay more money for more flight time, or become an instructor getting paid nothing with probably no benefits. You'll probably have to do this for two to four years before you can even apply for a "connection" or "commuter" carrier. Then, you'll probably be flying with that carrier for at least four years before you are able to move up to a mainline carrier, and even then, it'll be hard to be offered a position. So we're talking about 8-12+ years before you become a pilot with a major carrier, years which aren't "guaranteed" with little pay and few benefits. The military way it's going to be 14 years (4 schooling and 10 service) but you'll be paid to learn how to fly, then be given some of the best benefits around, as well as be able to fly some of the most advanced aircraft out there today. Then you'll be able to bring all that, along with a strong sense of discipline and commitment, to the table when you apply for a main carrier....
 
sovietjet
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RE: How To Become A Pilot

Sun Apr 27, 2003 12:08 pm

so you're saying it' s gonna take at least 8 years to get my flight training? But if I'm at the army don't I get shipped away from my house or something? I mean if I live in Chicago and I join the Army then do I still live in Chicago and stuff? How does the Army thing work?
 
jcxp15
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RE: How To Become A Pilot

Sun Apr 27, 2003 1:16 pm

Don't join the Army to fly commercially, the Navy or Air Force is what you want. Also, don't enlist. Enlistedmen now rarely get to the cockpit, are treated as "second class" servicemen and don't have as many benefits as officers.

Basically, find a school with AFROTC or NROTC that you want to go to. There are hundreds of normal colleges with these programs. You'll go to college like normal and all and take an additional course AFROTC or NROTC. These programs, if you apply for them end of junior/beginning of senior year in many cases will pay for most if not all of your college tuition. They will also give you a monthly stipend (pocket money) as well as supply you with uniforms and books.
Then, after you graduate college, if you're entering the Air Force's or Navy's pilot program, you will be sent to pilot school. I'll use the Air Force's program since I'm most familiar with it. At pilot school you will learn how to fly, from the basic single engine eventually up to larger aircraft (either fighters or transports). Once finished with pilot school, you will put in for which base you want to operate out of (this will have to accord with the type of aircraft you fly). You'll then relocate there (or if they can't accomodate you with that, to a second or third choice) join a flight squadron usually and be on your first "tour". You'll also be a first lieutenent, meaning your pay will be more than most enlistedmen, and you could even be in charge of a group or enlistedmen. You're then required to finish up your 10 years of service, most days just flying practice missions. Now, in times of war, there is a good chance you and your squadron will be assigned to wherever the closest Allied Air Force Base is to help with support or strike etc... One benefit about the Air Force, compared to the Navy and Army is that in the Air Force, many times, you will operate out of the US or England etc.. (nicer places than the sea or sand). Once you're commitment is up, then you're free to go, and will almost be guaranteed a job.


Now, if you're really into the military and want to attend some of the best colleges in the world, then I would suggest looking into the Service Academies, the three main and best ones being the United States Naval Academy, United States Air Force Academy and the United States Military Academy. These are military institutions, and admission is highly competitive (last year the USAFA's admission rate was like 10% as was USNA and Army). But if you have good grades (around a 3.0), good SAT's/ACT's (around 1300 SAT) and are involved in your school (i.e. captain of a team, president of a club, national honor society, president of your class etc...) you have a good shot. You'll need a nomination from your senator or congressman/woman also to attend. (i.e. all you'll do is send a letter to them stating that you want to attend an academy, and they'll set up an interview and then if they determine you qualified will give you a nomination).
Basically, these are military colleges. They are free, and very disciplined. You'll leave your home late June to go to BCT (Basic Cadet Training), which entails a month and a half of tough military training. After that (and something called recognition), the academies somewhat turn into regular colleges. You go to class normally etc... but in uniform, and adhere to strict rules which ease as you get older.

Anyway, check out:
http://www.usafa.af.mil For the United States Air Force Academy. You'll find out about everything you want about admissions, cadet life etc... on there
For the navy it's: http://www.usna.edu


If ROTC seems like more of what you want then check out:
http://www.afrotc.com for Air Force and http://www.nrotc.com for Navy.

You'll find out a lot more about the programs there.


To answer your question. If you join a service (which with your grades and all, you don't want to enlist, rather apply for an AFROTC or NROTC scholarship or an academy), you'll be sent out for basic training, which depending on which branch of service you join is at different places. Basic is an introduction to military life and how to work as a team etc... but is tough. Then you'll be sent to a military base and will follow officers' orders. Most of the people dying on the front lines are enlistedmen, not officers.. btw. So if you do ROTC or go to an academy, sure you will most likely be in danger, but are not always on the front lines or doing the man to man combat. Also, I don't know if you were using Chicago as an example, but if you plan on living there all the while becoming a pilot the civilian route, then you're in for an awakening. Basically going the civilian route, you're going to have to leave Chicago anyway for various reasons.
Anyway, check out the above links, and if you think it's something for you then look into them further, you still have at least a year!
 
CcrlR
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RE: How To Become A Pilot

Mon Apr 28, 2003 12:29 am

The army would not work for you. If you were to be in a college or university, you could try the Air Force ROTC. Have you applied or looked into some schools that deal with flight cause there are some I know that have the degree program that are in the Midwest. A lot of times there are some pilots who live in a city and work for a feeder carrier like express and some cargo airlines and they sometimes work only a couple of hours a day and so many a week and month. Sometimes they have some who work for a company who owns a private jet and they need someone to fly it and there are Charter Airlines who need them. Some colleges offer internships, work-study and study abroad programs for flight. I remember one college that had one for flight and it was in Melbourne Australia and you spend a semester of your school time there. If you have any questions you can E mail me and if you want to know the colleges that offer it in the degree program you can E mail me for that too.
"He was right, it is a screaming metal deathtrap!"-Cosmo (from the Fairly Oddparents)
 
DE727UPS
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RE: How To Become A Pilot

Mon Apr 28, 2003 1:58 am

If you wanted to stay in one place while pursuing the civillian route it would put some limits on your upward progression. It's best to be free to follow opportunities where ever they may be. It's not impossible, though, and I've known guys that are doing it.

Only go in the military if you want to serve your country first and want to be a pilot second.
 
sovietjet
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RE: How To Become A Pilot

Mon Apr 28, 2003 8:42 am

Jcxp15 -

What is AFROTC and NROTC? So you're saying that if I go to a college with those programs I can get my flying hours and training to be a pilot and then I can go apply at some airline? And they will pay most of college tuition? Or do I still have to join the Air Force after that? Where can I find the colleges which have those programs?

ccrlR -

How would I start work for a feeder carrier like express or cargo airlines?
 
jcxp15
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RE: How To Become A Pilot

Mon Apr 28, 2003 10:57 am

Sovietjet:

Re-read my above post.. I go into detail about AFROTC and NROTC there... To keep it short though, if you get a AFROTC or NROTC scholarship, you will go to a regular college either for free or for a really, really low price. After that you will be committed to 10 years active duty (military).
 
DE727UPS
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RE: How To Become A Pilot

Mon Apr 28, 2003 2:30 pm

To get on with a cargo feeder usually it takes at least 1200 hours total and 100 or so multi. Ameriflight is a large UPS feeder on the west coast. They start guys in a single engine Lance and then move up to a PA31 and later a Metro or a B1900...I see them all the time going to work on the ramp at BFI. The pay starts out as an embarrasment and moves up to just bad...but you have to pay your dues. It's great experience, you'll never be sharper as a pilot than flying a Metro single pilot.
 
jhooper
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RE: How To Become A Pilot

Mon Apr 28, 2003 3:45 pm

I'm kinda convinced now that the military is the way to go. I'm trying to get a pilot training slot.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
jcxp15
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RE: How To Become A Pilot

Tue Apr 29, 2003 11:07 am

Jhooper:

Yea in these times, and with the abundance of Air Force pilot slots, the military is definately the way to go.
I'm assuming you're an enlistedman. From your standpoint, how is it getting a pilot slot. I was told a couple years ago that it was almost impossible for an enlistedman to get a slot, as by the time they them out to the Academy grads and ROTC grads, there are few left. Anyway, good luck!

 
sovietjet
Topic Author
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RE: How To Become A Pilot

Tue Apr 29, 2003 12:48 pm

Ok guys you have all really helped me and I appreciate your help but I think that I got too much info lol. I'm rather confused and I don't want to be annoying but I've been re-reading this whole thread and there's all this info out there. I'm wondering if any of you can summarize it all. I got one thing, I can go to the Air Force and I'm all good. However, I don't want to spend 10 or 14 years in the Air Force. I am just asking for a clear explanation of my other options for getting my degree and flight hours and if possible the $$$ it would cost me. Thanks a lot.
 
jhooper
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RE: How To Become A Pilot

Tue Apr 29, 2003 1:45 pm

Jcxp15,

I'm not enlisted. I did participate in ROTC but I didn't take a contract. If you get a book called "Flying in the Guard and Reserve" by Air Inc., it outlines how to apply for a pilot training slot that way. That's what I'm doing. A unit I've applied to will be having a board this summer, so we'll see how that goes.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
DE727UPS
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RE: How To Become A Pilot

Tue Apr 29, 2003 2:30 pm

Ivan...it's hard to answer your question cause there are so many variables. The cheapest thing to do is get a non-aviation degree at an in state school or university and fly at a smaller, part 61, flight school. The degree fills the box on the airline application and the flight training, up through CFI, will allow you to build hours and experience without having to pay for it....you even make a little income. Whether you go military or not, there are no guarantees about the outcome in the end.
 
Guest

RE: How To Become A Pilot

Wed Apr 30, 2003 2:09 am

I took the AFROTC solution, gave me free university degree... at the same time I did CPL and CFI training on my own...
Back in the 1960s, it was a 5 years active duty commitment - ended up as a KC-135 instructor pilot, based Anderson AFB (Guam)... then went to the AF Reserve where I stayed 20 years, flying KC-135, then E-3, then E-4...
xxx
My Air Force background helped me to be hired by PanAm, where they selected me as a 707 instructor pilot as well... Had a furlough from PanAm in late 1973 (oil crisis) but went on active duty for that time...
xxx
Serving 20 years in the AF Reserve was great, I was always looking forward to do my weekends at the base, flying a mission... Many PanAm pilots were in Air Force or Navy Reserves... In turn, being an instructor with the Air Force, flying E-4s, PanAm selected me as a 747 instructor and check pilot... one helped the other, both ways...
xxx
My last assignment was flying an E-4 during Desert Storm (1991)... I retired as a Lt.Col. The Air Force gave me education, pilot qualifications and experience, and an airline career...
xxx
(s) Skipper
 
sovietjet
Topic Author
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RE: How To Become A Pilot

Wed Apr 30, 2003 2:58 am

wait, so when you are in the air force you are only at the base on weekends?
 
Guest

RE: How To Become A Pilot

Wed Apr 30, 2003 3:04 am

Dear Ivan -
Active duty... no, you generally stay at your base... enjoy a good life unless you are based in Thule, Greenland...
But in the AF Reserve, it is generally (or was then) 1 weekend duty per month, and 2 weeks of active duty per year... was great, really, and... fun !!!
 Smile
(s) Skipper
 
jcxp15
Posts: 989
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RE: How To Become A Pilot

Wed Apr 30, 2003 6:52 am

Soviet:

And ROTC pilot program requires that you're on active duty for 9 years. It seems like a lot, but compared to the other ways you can do it, it's not much. Plus it's guaranteed flight time.

Reserves are optional, and you usually go one weekend a month, and then 2 weeks during the year. But, if you're a reserve, you can still go back to active duty, as B747 did, if you don't like flying for your airline, or like B747 are furloughed.
 
sovietjet
Topic Author
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RE: How To Become A Pilot

Wed Apr 30, 2003 12:52 pm

you dont get to leave the base or anything right? Like to go to a nearby city or something? Do you live and sleep on the base? In other words...is it like a regular job where you work 5 days a week and go home for the night. Do you get weekends off? For example my uncle is a Mig-29 pilot in Bulgaria and he goes to the base every day but he goes home at like 5 or 6 he doesn't sleep on the base or anything. I think he has weekends off if I'm not mistaken or at least Sundays.
 
covert
Posts: 1528
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 1:02 am

RE: How To Become A Pilot

Thu May 01, 2003 5:39 am

Nobody here really mentioned how some states' Air National Guard units pay up to 100% tuition if you enlist with them. Even though you are only an enlisted man, you still only have to go to drill one weekend a month, and be on active for two weeks annually, plus you get a paycheck (E-1 reserve base pay for four drill periods is $136.60), and the Montgomery GI Bill, which is currently $272 a month and maybe even a GI kicker which is around $350. All for two days a month.... Plus after you get your degree you can apply for a flying job at your unit, Certainly worth considering.


One problem with going flying military is the lengthy service commitments, around ten years.

Another thing about regular military is the high competitiveness, but if you do get in, then it is the best.


covert
none
 
Jj
Posts: 1189
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2001 7:40 am

Skipper: Argentina's Case?

Thu May 01, 2003 11:11 am

Skipper:

How are you doing?

As you may notice, I'm from Argentina, and I know you fly for Aerolineas, so I hope you can answer me some questions I have had for some years now...:

- I'm only 15 years and 9 months, so my only possibility to fly is sail planes, right? Last week I went to Zarate, and got all the papers I need to make my medical. Is it fine if I start flying sailplanes, and once getting this license, I begin to fly cessnas and then the general progress?

-I have a medical concern: I'm 7 kg. above of what I should be: I should weight 87 kg. and I weigh 94 kg. My blood and all that is OK, but will this create me any problems? Second, I use glasses. Is this a bad condition too? At Zarate they told me it wasn't, but who knows?

-Is it necessary to have a university degree to get into an airline? If so, what is the most recommendable career? I love maths, and I'm planning to study advanced maths, but is this ok?

-This is the most important one, and I'm sure you're the best guy to answer it: Can a young pilot in Argentina survive as a pilot? How is the industry doing? I mean from the inside? Because I know LAPA went bust the other day, so did Dinar, Southern Winds is in a pretty bad shape... so... how is it doing?

-Perhaps this one, you may not be able to answer it, but a german may: I have the german nationality as well as the Argentinian. I'm studying german. Do I have a chance of getting a similar training as you get in the US navy in the german air force?

thanks a lot to all of you! Especially to you SKipper. BTW, is it true that an A340 has been retained in JFK?

thanks

jj Big grin
 
Guest

RE: How To Become A Pilot

Fri May 02, 2003 11:08 am

Hola Jj -
This is for you and everyone in ARG...
Right now all is in a terrible mess in Argentina with politics and economy, like everyone, I hope the elections will bring a solution -
xxx
Since you are 15 - be patient - try to start some training program, sailplane training is a good basic training as a first step - I know a couple of operations around Bariloche, Esquel and Mendoza but they shut down for winter...
xxx
You cannot go wrong (if you can afford it) doing some training for PVT or CPL such as in Florida, USA - does not need to be a big school, a little inexpensive training program to get licenses is ok... and as far as school, suggestion - try to study a couple of years in Math and Physics at UBA, maybe?...
xxx
Right now with the merge of Aerolineas and Austral, plus the end of LAPA and others we are trying to absorb unemployed pilots, many are well qualified with lots of 737 experience... Remember, Che, you are 15, still... a few years and things will get better here - I hope, you hope, everyone here hopes...
xxx
Happy contrails to you and the other future pilots  Smile
(s) Skipper
 
Guest

RE: How To Become A Pilot

Fri May 02, 2003 12:22 pm

Dear Jj and other friends -
xxx
When airlines are in the "hiring mode" - many are not right now - they are willing to accept candidates that they would normally have rejected - wearing glasses or being slightly overweight is not always a problem - excess weight could require a diet - I recommend you try to get to the normal "numbers"...
xxx
I am not familiar with what the Luftwaffe offers nowadays in Germany, but they may have something suitable to your projects - then after a few years, coming back to Argentina with your experience would be a help...
xxx
Nearly 16 - yes - start some training, gliders are excellent basic trainers, I know of a few training activities around Bariloche, Esquel and Mendoza, but believe they are closed for the winter season - check also on the Chilean side of the Cordillera...
xxx
Suggest you look into inexpensive flight training in Florida, USA (not necessarily a large "aviation academy") to get PVT and CPL... and for education try to get a couple of years at UBA, mathematics and physics...
xxx
Right now, we all have hopes for the future of Argentina, wating for the outcome of the elections - Menem or Kirchner - and what it will do for the airline industry here... With the merge of AR and Austral operations, with the end of LAPA etc... there are a lot of well qualified and experienced pilots to absorb... we have to take them first...
xxx
The A340 at JFK has been released... I heard...
(s) Skipper
 
Jj
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RE: How To Become A Pilot

Sat May 03, 2003 3:20 am

Skipper

thanks!

Surely, I intend studying at the UBA. Is it necessary to have training in the US? I mean, I can of course afford it, but I'm afraid there might be some sort of discrmination? Well, surely a lot of years will pass before I even have the age to do it.

Also, understand that there are a lot of redundant pilots that will be taken before the new entrants... lets hope more companies are created! Right now it's almost a controled maerket by AR/AU, not that I don't like it, but it's closing jobs.

Anyway, I still have some years left at HS... so lets "vivir la vida como se debe" and dont worry about this 'till 2006 or so  Smile . It's more important wether Kirchner wins or Menem does to the industry right now...

thanks a lot!
 
BA777
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RE: How To Become A Pilot

Sat May 03, 2003 10:44 pm

Would pilot training in America be more expensive than here in the UK?

Henry
 
SophieMaltese
Posts: 2022
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 2:08 pm

RE: How To Become A Pilot

Sun May 04, 2003 6:21 pm

You could also see about joining the Civil Air Patrol. I know the CAP in my area has a plane you can rent for $40/hr (172) and you can even get some free flight time but you have to have at least a PPL first.
 
Guest

RE: How To Become A Pilot

Wed May 07, 2003 3:32 am

Hola Jj -
Not necessarily in the USA, but it is definitely less expensive there and the training is generally very fast... Lufthansa does train their pilot cadets in Arizona, and Sabena used too do it there too... Europe has good quality training (especially theory) but flight training very expensive...
xxx
Discrimation... none, against Argentinos at least... Suggestion, go to Florida with inexpensive living and good flying weather most of the year, and being around Miami - Ft Lauderdale is "almost like being in the USA"... sometimes people even speak a language close to English... y la gente puede entender castellano, pero ningun lunfardo, Che...!
xxx
Menem o Kirchner... Boca o River...  Smile
(s) Skipper
 
Jj
Posts: 1189
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2001 7:40 am

RE: How To Become A Pilot

Wed May 07, 2003 9:32 am

Pero Boca y River pueden empatar  Big grin

BTW, is there a lot of spanish spoken there? Or is it just a small "cuba town" or something like tha, and apart from that, nowhere else?
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
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RE: How To Become A Pilot

Wed May 07, 2003 3:43 pm

What about vison?

I have HORRIBLE vision (without my contacts, I probably couldnt see a horse three feet in front of me)  Sad

I'm curious as to whether I'd be able to get a private license.

Also, I do plan to have corrective surgery, but not until age 25+ (currently nearly 22)

anyone?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
covert
Posts: 1528
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RE: How To Become A Pilot

Sat May 10, 2003 1:22 am

I don't have exact figures, ConcordeBoy, but you need a class three medical for your PPL, and I think that requires vision to be corrected to 20/40 or so.

If you have glasses, no prob.
none
 
YoungDon
Posts: 654
Joined: Thu May 31, 2001 9:33 am

RE: How To Become A Pilot

Mon May 12, 2003 3:41 am

Hello all,

Maybe I should have started another thread on this, but I have my own set of questions for you all...

I'm almost 18 years old and my dream job is to be a pilot as well. I have researched quite a bit into what it takes to be one. I have a 3.7 GPA on a scale of 4.0 and am involved in a few things in school, but am not a captain of a team or president of a club or anything. (I used to play football, but I tore my Achilles and that was the end of that for a while...) I took my PSAT and got a 206 on it (the equivalent of a 1330 on the SAT), and I'm going to take my first SAT June 7. I'm a junior and I'll graduate in June 2004. I plan to apply to the USAFA and I applied to their summer program for precandidates (juniors), and I'll be going up to Colorado Springs on June 14-20 for that.

Here's the issues...

Though I am confident that once I apply to the USAFA later this year that I have a very good chance of getting in, I am NOT very confident that the military route is what I want to do. For one, I am very outspoken and that is a trait that could get me killed in the military. Secondly, I do not want to spend six or seven years after graduation in the Air Force. I'm a very free spirit and I don't really like the idea of being under all of that hardcore discipline for so long. Simply put, its just not me... So unless this little session this summer shows me something different, the AFA will never have favor as my preferred way to reach my goal.

I have also researched many universities that have flight programs incorporated with college degrees so that I may study and fly during college. They are, (in my order of preference)

1. The Ohio State University
2. Western Michigan University
3. Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University
4. Saint Louis University
5. Purdue University
6. University of North Dakota

I'm sure most people are wondering why I don't want to go to UND or Purdue. Well, not to offend anyone, but I'm African-American and UND and Purdue don't seem to me to be anywhere that I would be interested in going. However, I'm going to visit all of those this summer except for UND (I'm absolutely sure I don't want to go there) and ERAU (I'll visit there this fall), so maybe Purdue will surprise me. I'm trying to leave as many options open as possible.

Anyway though, getting back on topic, I think that I can get pretty close to a full ride from at least one of those colleges, and if that is the case, I can better shoulder some of the flying expenses that will come after college. I'm prepared for the rough 3 or 4 years after graduation as a flight instructor and commuter pilot. Once it comes to getting hired by a major, I've always wondered...

Is it easier or harder for an African-American pilot to be hired by a major. I've known for a while that there are not a whole lot of black pilots, but that lately there's been more being hired for whatever reasons. My father was one and worked for TexasInternational/Continental 1981-1994 and Delta 1994-2002. He always said it was more difficult for us, but then my father is a very militant individual. Other black pilots I've asked have come with different answers, but my feeling is that it is generally not as hard because majors are looking to increase their numbers of minorities, mainly for PR purposes. However, it seems to be harder to get to the point of being hired for minorities, so it evens out (I guess).

So, what should I consider doing as far as college and beyond? I think I'll have a clearer picture on my feelings about the military when I return from COS on June 20, but I really don't want to be 30 years old coming out of the military. Thanks for reading.

Don

Sorry, I know I tend to ramble on and on, and I know that was a long post!!  Laugh out loud

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