Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
LHSebi
Topic Author
Posts: 1007
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2004 4:24 am

Emergency After Takeoff? *Photo*

Fri Feb 20, 2004 12:14 am


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ralf Drews



Can anyone explain why this DC-10 is dumping fuel right after takeoff? Or is this just condensation? (Doesn't look like it though!) Ideas?

Sebastian
I guess that's what happens in the end, you start thinking about the beginning.
 
sushka
Posts: 4657
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 1999 12:33 am

RE: Emergency After Takeoff? *Photo*

Fri Feb 20, 2004 12:19 am

That is dumping fuel. I wonder what happened.
Pershoyu Spravoyu Litaki!
 
N754PR
Posts: 2909
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 1999 10:03 pm

RE: Emergency After Takeoff? *Photo*

Fri Feb 20, 2004 12:45 am

Is that just some overflow fuel from near the cap? I saw a 727 at Kai Tak do that.
Bush, your a sad, sad man.
 
contrails
Posts: 1314
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2000 11:53 pm

RE: Emergency After Takeoff? *Photo*

Fri Feb 20, 2004 2:05 am

I thought the fuel dump vents were on the far ends of the wing, and there was one for each wing. That's awfully close to the engine...if it were on fire the fuel might be close enough to ignite. Could there be there another explanation for this?
Flying Colors Forever!
 
HAJ_OW
Posts: 112
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 5:53 am

RE: Emergency After Takeoff? *Photo*

Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:56 am

Hello,

I bet that's condensation. It's exactly at the outer edge of the flaps. That's the point where usually condansation takes place under high wijng loads like during take offs.

Regards

HAJ_OW
 
wietse
Posts: 3630
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2001 12:49 am

RE: Emergency After Takeoff? *Photo*

Fri Feb 20, 2004 6:07 am

No way.. it originates on the underside of the wing. Not a chance that that is condensation...

Wietse
Wietse de Graaf
 
LHSebi
Topic Author
Posts: 1007
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2004 4:24 am

RE: Emergency After Takeoff? *Photo*

Fri Feb 20, 2004 6:35 am

Condensation would also require different weather conditions, or? I see a blue sky in the background, so little moisture (photo taken in october in frankfurt)...

Sebastian
I guess that's what happens in the end, you start thinking about the beginning.
 
wietse
Posts: 3630
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2001 12:49 am

RE: Emergency After Takeoff? *Photo*

Fri Feb 20, 2004 6:51 am

That doesnt say anything. I have had superb condensation trails on the clearest days... Interesting pic none the less and I hope we can get the answer on what is happening here.

Wietse
Wietse de Graaf
 
aa61hvy
Posts: 13021
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 1999 9:21 am

RE: Emergency After Takeoff? *Photo*

Fri Feb 20, 2004 7:06 am

Thats quite a steep angle for a DC-10
Go big or go home
 
HawaiianHobo
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2004 2:33 pm

RE: Emergency After Takeoff? *Photo*

Fri Feb 20, 2004 7:09 am

It's not dumping fuel, thats for sure. It IS a bit odd that condensation would be forming there, but DCKC-10s' dump masts are at the trailing edge of the wing tips.

-Jordan Long
Chief Master A1C of the Air Force
...
 
funflyer
Posts: 817
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 4:53 am

RE: Emergency After Takeoff? *Photo*

Fri Feb 20, 2004 7:12 am

Maybe there dumping the restroom.
Who cares about status?
 
Q330
Posts: 1425
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 5:30 pm

RE: Emergency After Takeoff? *Photo*

Fri Feb 20, 2004 7:23 am

A vortex with condensation tends to have a well defined tube shape:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jean
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Hideaki Ohki



On the Omni DC-10, the stuff coming off the wing disperses like a spray. I think it is fuel, but I don't know why it's coming from there.

-Q
Long live the A330!
 
redngold
Posts: 6686
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2000 12:26 pm

RE: Emergency After Takeoff? *Photo*

Fri Feb 20, 2004 7:33 am

I detect a helical shape to it, though... Perhaps it is a spray, but it is twisting.

redngold
Up, up and away!
 
B777FA
Posts: 235
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2003 4:52 am

RE: Emergency After Takeoff? *Photo*

Fri Feb 20, 2004 7:33 am

One time whilst taking off from GIG on a 767-300ER just after rotation I noticed what I thought was fuel streaming out of the Fuel dumping nozzle.I was really surprised to see this so I called the cockpit and they told me that sometimes it happens (overflow of fuel) and that it was indeed fuel coming out. About 5 minutes later it stopped . Anyway that was on the 767-300ER.
 
JumboBumbo
Posts: 168
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2003 1:17 pm

RE: Emergency After Takeoff? *Photo*

Fri Feb 20, 2004 7:34 am

The caption seems to say that the a/c is dumping. Anyone contact the photographer... he may have the scoop.
 
Q330
Posts: 1425
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 5:30 pm

RE: Emergency After Takeoff? *Photo*

Fri Feb 20, 2004 7:35 am

That's awfully close to the engine...if it were on fire the fuel might be close enough to ignite.

Actually it is just the angle of the photo that makes it look so close. It is a good distance from the engine.

-Q
Long live the A330!
 
QantasA332
Posts: 1473
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 5:47 pm

RE: Emergency After Takeoff? *Photo*

Fri Feb 20, 2004 7:42 am

It is indeed dumping fuel.......the place where the spray is originating is exactly where the fuel dump outlets are located on DC-10s -- right outboard of the outboard flaps.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ralf Drews



Cheers,
QantasA332
 
HawaiianHobo
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2004 2:33 pm

RE: Emergency After Takeoff? *Photo*

Fri Feb 20, 2004 7:43 am

The only thing that I find odd is, if you look up other pics of the same AC, you'll notice the dump masts at the edge of the wing tips.

A few explanations for the photo that I can come up with are:

1. Condensation forming on the rib and dispersing as if it were fuel.

2. Fuel leak. (but hard to buy seeing as its coming from both sides of the wing)

On a funny note, as I was driving on the flightline at Davis-Monthan AFB, an A-10 took off and as it was coming down the rwy you could see fuel just gushing out its dump mast. It continued to climb with fuel pouring out... the poor people driving down the freeway near the base must have been surprised!

what's even funnier, is that a few moments later, another A-10 took off and the pilot accidentally set off all the flares before even getting the wheels off the ground!

-Jordan
...
 
HawaiianHobo
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2004 2:33 pm

RE: Emergency After Takeoff? *Photo*

Fri Feb 20, 2004 7:57 am

Oops...

After calling a buddy of mine at an undisclosed Air Force Base... the dump masts are located next to the outboard flaps, just as QantasA332 stated.

Heh, I feel stupid. This is why I only work with fighters.  Wink/being sarcastic

-Jordan
...
 
JBirdAV8r
Posts: 3468
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2001 4:44 am

RE: Emergency After Takeoff? *Photo*

Fri Feb 20, 2004 8:04 am

Really odd that they'd only be using one dump mast if they were dumping though. Also doesn't seem to follow a normalized flow pattern.

Condensation generally does not form on the lower side of a wing....in a nutshell, lower pressure is needed to form vapor. Comparitively high-velocity airflow is also needed (lowers the pressure obviously). This is the reason why vapor sometimes forms in front of the N1 fans, along the tops of the wings, and primarily in vortices. A large number of tornadoes are also primary examples (i.e. the visible "funnel cloud", gray and/or white in appaearance, is water vapor).

My vote is that that is fuel.
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
LHSebi
Topic Author
Posts: 1007
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2004 4:24 am

RE: Emergency After Takeoff? *Photo*

Fri Feb 20, 2004 8:07 am

Ok, so we have established it's probably fuel...any ideas what the hell its doing dumping straight after takeoff?

Sebastian
I guess that's what happens in the end, you start thinking about the beginning.
 
Markus
Posts: 386
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:05 am

RE: Emergency After Takeoff? *Photo*

Fri Feb 20, 2004 9:06 am

You're all wrong...the pilot accidently hit the 'CHEMTRAIL' button prematurely.
 Big grin
 
QantasA332
Posts: 1473
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 5:47 pm

RE: Emergency After Takeoff? *Photo*

Fri Feb 20, 2004 9:50 am

...any ideas what the hell its doing dumping straight after takeoff?

Well, there must have been a failure or problem of some sort...does anyone know if the aircraft then landed back at the airport of departure, or diverted? I have no idea besides that much...........

Cheers,
QantasA332
 
whauet
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 1999 5:30 am

RE: Emergency After Takeoff? *Photo*

Fri Feb 20, 2004 10:29 am

It's most likely just an overflow. I've watched NW007 leave for Tokyo from Seattle for years and I have seen, several times, a visible overflow streaming from the wings. It would stream from both wings until the aircraft makes the turn to the West and then only stream from the right wing (the aircraft was turning left) because of the air pressure changes over the surface of the wing. Photo was taken in October, could have been a very warm day and the tanks were full....
 
theflcowboy
Posts: 357
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 3:44 am

RE: Emergency After Takeoff? *Photo*

Fri Feb 20, 2004 10:33 am

If it is a dump, why isnt there fuel coming out of the other side?

MD
A318, A320, A332, A333, B1900, B722, B732, B733, B734, B735, B737, B738, B772, CR1, CR2, CR7, CR9, MD80, MD81, MD82, MD8
 
User avatar
barney captain
Posts: 2422
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

RE: Emergency After Takeoff? *Photo*

Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:39 pm

I have to admit guys, this one had me baffled. Then it donned on me; as much as we want to think everything works perfectly 100% of the time, the reality is, sometimes thing "misbehave". With that in mind, I submit 2 possibilities; 1. Residual fuel left in the dump mast after a previous dump or, more likely, 2. A somewhat less-than-perfectly-sealed dump valve. There simply isn't enough fuel (vapor) exhausting to be a legitimate fuel dump, but it does IMO seem to be originating from the valve itself. Also, this shot appears to be taken VERY shortly after T.O., a fuel dump for a return would take much longer to initiate. My money is on the leaky valve.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
Georg
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 3:03 am

RE: Emergency After Takeoff? *Photo*

Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:57 pm

I am not very sure if its fuel dumping. Its actually too close to the engine, imagine if one engine is on fire, the heat coming out from it will probably fire up the fuel and you are a burning stick in the air. Usually fuel is dumped from wingtips as I know? Though I cant find any other logical explanation for that picture, they arent definately the vapour tails Big grin.
NO URLS in signature
 
qantasguy
Posts: 136
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 1:07 pm

RE: Emergency After Takeoff? *Photo*

Fri Feb 20, 2004 6:09 pm

I'd say its fuel too. The leaky valve is the most plausible theory considering that there is no fuel dump on the other wing. As far as the engine catching the fuel on fire, it would have to be a bloody big engine fire. I'm sure Douglass would have investigated that scenario a good many times before mass production. However, I stand to be corrected, as always.
Airplanes Flown on..B-727-100, B-727-200, DC-9, F-27, B-707, B-717, B-737, B-747SP, B-747-100, B-747-200, B-747-300, B74
 
tomgib
Posts: 89
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2003 6:59 pm

RE: Emergency After Takeoff? *Photo*

Fri Feb 20, 2004 6:15 pm

do Dc-10´s have vent or overflow tanks ?? Maybe this is what it is..

 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Emergency After Takeoff? *Photo*

Fri Feb 20, 2004 6:15 pm

Never seen a DC-10 up close.

But I have been there when a 727, and a DC-9 both dumped fuel overboard because the crew screwed up and overfilled the tanks during some trimming transfers.


Both aircraft where on long range ferry flights so they where pretty maxed out.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Cpt Underpants
Posts: 160
Joined: Sat May 05, 2001 10:37 am

RE: Emergency After Takeoff? *Photo*

Fri Feb 20, 2004 7:46 pm

It's fuel, and it's not an emergency. There's an overflow tank which captures excess fuel (can be caused by too much pump pressure or an overfuelling). That tank vents to the dumping tube, and the excess fuel is drawn out due to the low pressure created by the air flow.
 
nudelhirsch
Posts: 1371
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2003 6:20 am

RE: Emergency After Takeoff? *Photo*

Fri Feb 20, 2004 10:59 pm

there is a valve for excessing oxygene in the tanks, maybe this plane pumped that off, with a spray of fuel in it?
in the book i read the thing above, i also found a pretty good structural drawing. comparing the dimensions on teh drawing, i'd say this "thing" is approx 10mtrs away from the engine...no too clsoe though, also, the engine is mounted a bit "forward", the "thing" begins more in the rear of the wing...

but im studying business and not engineering, so guarantee is taken...why dont we ask in the tech-forum?
Putana da Seatbeltz!
 
Guest

RE: Emergency After Takeoff? *Photo*

Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:25 pm

It could simply be fuel venting or maybe some condensation forming from the outboard trailing edge of the flaps. I know that it isn't fuel dumping. This is fuel dumping...


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Scotty Curtis
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © John Higgins



That's what happens when you dump fuel and hit the after burners on an F-111. AWESOME!!!
 
DrJetMech
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2004 2:24 pm

RE: Emergency After Takeoff? *Photo*

Sat Feb 21, 2004 4:00 pm

BA777FA, I'm not sure on the DC-10, but I know most planes have fuel vents that any overflow of fuel will come out of. And those are almost always at the trailing edge and outer most part of the wing.
 
chdmcmanus
Posts: 372
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2001 12:53 am

RE: Emergency After Takeoff? *Photo*

Sat Feb 21, 2004 10:03 pm

WOW. A lot of speculation. The facts of this are the following, make your own conclusion;

1) The dump mast on the DC/KC 10 is immediately outboard of the flap but inboard of the aileron, on both sides.

2) You can see the other wings dump mast in this picture, there is nothing exiting.

3) There is only 1 dump switch in the DC-10, if you press it, BOTH valves open. Refer to 2.

4) The Fuel vents on the DC/KC10 DO NOT vent to the dump mast, there is an ambient air vent on the lower surface of the wings fwd and slightly outboard of the dump mast.

It appears to me that whatever it is, it's coming from underneath the wing, If it is fuel, it's VENTING from the right vent system, which vents the left (#1) main and center wing upper tank.

ChD
"Never trust a clean Crew Chief"
 
pilotpip
Posts: 2844
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 3:26 pm

RE: Emergency After Takeoff? *Photo*

Sat Feb 21, 2004 10:14 pm

The fuel panel on a DC-10 is inboard of the flap farings, between those and the powerplant on the leading edge of each wing. It looks to be outboard of the refueling adapters and panel, but I think it's a fuel leak from there. Perhaps the defuel valve was stuck open?
DMI
 
buckfifty
Posts: 1278
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2001 4:05 pm

RE: Emergency After Takeoff? *Photo*

Sat Feb 21, 2004 11:35 pm

I'd tend to believe Cpt Underpants explanation. In fact, it seems the most constructive of all the ones I've seen here, actually.
 
VC-10
Posts: 3552
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 1999 11:34 am

RE: Emergency After Takeoff? *Photo*

Sun Feb 22, 2004 3:22 am

I'd tend to believe Cpt Underpants explanation. In fact, it seems the most constructive of all the ones I've seen here, actually.

Believe him if you want, but having certified '10's for over 10 years I can tell you he is wrong.




Any fuel that enters the vent tank will drain back into the main tank as soon as the level drop sufficiently.


It cannot be residual fuel from a previous dump as the pipe run between the Jettison valve & the end of the pipe isn't long enough to hold that much fuel

[Edited 2004-02-21 19:27:54]
 
LHSebi
Topic Author
Posts: 1007
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2004 4:24 am

RE: Emergency After Takeoff? *Photo*

Sun Feb 22, 2004 5:40 am

Is it any way possible that he had an emergency after takeoff, and is dumping fuel for a go-around and landing?

Sebastian
I guess that's what happens in the end, you start thinking about the beginning.
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13899
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Emergency After Takeoff? *Photo*

Sun Feb 22, 2004 7:07 am

To me it looks like a overflowing vent box. I´ve seen this hqappen before, if a filling valve didn´t close. often the excess fuel will run out of the vent once the A/C attitude changes.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
chdmcmanus
Posts: 372
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2001 12:53 am

RE: Emergency After Takeoff? *Photo*

Sun Feb 22, 2004 7:08 am

Thanks VC-10, I was trying to figure out how to scan/post the exact same pages from my POH.

LHSebi, I don't think so, for two reasons 1) the dump mast on the opposite wing is clean (no fuel). 2) the fuel appears to be coming from under the wing (you can see the shadow).

This is Dumping in a -30/KC-10

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Mike Parks



ChD
"Never trust a clean Crew Chief"
 
VC-10
Posts: 3552
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 1999 11:34 am

RE: Emergency After Takeoff? *Photo*

Sun Feb 22, 2004 6:53 pm

I'd go with an overflowing vent box
 
Ikarus
Posts: 3399
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2001 10:18 pm

RE: Emergency After Takeoff? *Photo*

Mon Feb 23, 2004 1:24 am

Somewhere, I've got a photo of an Atlas Air 747 freighter taking off in Heathrow a really hot sunny day, doing the same thing.... I've always been wondering what it was.

Thanks for clearing that up. Overflowing fuel.... never thought of that...

Regards

Ikarus
 
LHSebi
Topic Author
Posts: 1007
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2004 4:24 am

RE: Emergency After Takeoff? *Photo*

Tue Feb 24, 2004 8:09 am


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Pereslavtsev Alex


I just saw this photo, and thought it looked similar to what's coming off that DC-10...possible? The photographer calls this "jet trails"...any ideas?

Sebastian
I guess that's what happens in the end, you start thinking about the beginning.
 
wannabe
Posts: 652
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 1999 3:37 am

RE: Emergency After Takeoff? *Photo*

Tue Feb 24, 2004 1:04 pm

LHSebi,
The suspect photo was taken on October 13 in Frankfurt, probably not that cold then.
 
Mr Spaceman
Posts: 2723
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2001 5:09 am

RE: Emergency After Takeoff? *Photo*

Thu Feb 26, 2004 9:07 am

Hi guys.

I know this topic has run it's course, but, I thought this photo would help.

The spray coming off the DC-10's wing looks the same as the fuel being dumped from the A340 in the photo below.

The proximity of the fuel spray to the engine on the DC-10 was brought up. Well, the fuel being dumped from this A340 is flowing out between two engines! So, unless the airliner has afterburners like the F-111 in the photos that Jetguy posted, there must not be any danger of a fire.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Javier Guerrero




Chris  Smile

"Just a minute while I re-invent myself"

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos