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airplay
Posts: 3369
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 1:58 am

RE: Happy AMT Day!

Fri May 28, 2004 11:56 am

CdfMxTech,

Good post. Of course there are good ones. That one crack about "bad and worse" that some are bent out of shape over was just humour whether you believe me or not is up to you...

You show no evidence to support your theories. (like airplanes falling out of the sky, seeing they were maintained by monkeys)

Excellent point Linemechqx! That statement underscores my statements about how the design and certification standards with their accompanying conservative safety margins, keep the airplanes safe even when maintenance is neglected.

But...you aren't completely correct. Air Transat had one fall out of the sky because of creative maintenance.

And how about this statement from http://www.atca.org/singlenews.asp?item_ID=693

On Jan. 8, 2003, a commuter plane operated by Air Midwest crashed 37 seconds after takeoff from Charlotte/Douglas International Airport, killing all 21 aboard. The National Transportation Safety Board blamed the accident on sloppy maintenance, poor federal oversight and excessive weight in the back of the plane.

And...

On Aug. 26, 2003, two pilots died when a Colgan Air plane crashed off Cape Cod, Mass., on its first flight after maintenance. Investigators believe faulty maintenance also probably had a role in that crash.

And...

Regional airlines have improved safety standards in recent years, largely in response to tougher federal regulations that require operators of planes with 10 or more passengers to follow most of the same rules as larger airlines.

So, when shoddy maintenance is done, it often isn't catastrophic because of forgiving design features, but there are still airplanes that "fall out of the sky" due to maintenance, and the FAA for one is growing concerned. However, as stricter design and operating standards are adopted, the safety increases accordingly.

Oh...I have one more shoddy maintenance story for you but it hasn't been determined yet if it was the owner's fault or the maintainer.

A few days ago in Montreal a Cessna 421 had a "gear-up" landing. It suspended operations on a busy runway for hours. When the gear failed to come down, the pilot tried to "blow" it down using the emergency nitrogen charge but it didn't work. When the airplane came to a rest, the occupants had to exit through the main cabin door because the overwing exit was screwed shut! Makes you wonder what kind of shape the rest of the airplane was in!


[Edited 2004-05-28 05:07:32]
 
avt007
Posts: 1989
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2000 4:51 am

RE: Happy AMT Day!

Fri May 28, 2004 1:34 pm

Ya know, Airplay, you win. I give up. Your unshakeable conviction that you are right while all those around you are wrong, has finally worn me down.Enjoy the view from up there while us mere mortals struggle through our pitiful lives. And for my fellow AMT/AMEs, keep up the good work!
 
737doctor
Topic Author
Posts: 1291
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2001 4:52 pm

RE: Happy AMT Day!

Fri May 28, 2004 2:18 pm

On Jan. 8, 2003, a commuter plane operated by Air Midwest crashed 37 seconds after takeoff from Charlotte/Douglas International Airport, killing all 21 aboard. The National Transportation Safety Board blamed the accident on sloppy maintenance, poor federal oversight and excessive weight in the back of the plane.

You're right about that, Airplay, and I discussed that exact incident and how MX outsourcing played a significant role in this thread:

https://www.airliners.net/discussions/tech_ops/read.main/75074/6/

Yes, sometimes shoddy maintenance is the culprit, but it's hardly an indictment of all AMT's as you imply.

And before you say that I'm misinterpreting your words or something, save your typing fingers. You've already made your feelings toward AMT's quite clear.

Also, no problem, PC. I've had more than my share of "interaction" with folks like Airplay during the course of my career. It's a superiority complex sort of thing.
Patrick Bateman is my hero.
 
cancidas
Posts: 3985
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2003 7:34 am

RE: Happy AMT Day!

Fri May 28, 2004 4:48 pm

three cheers to mechanics. one of the guys i started at usair just got back from mx school. you guys really keep them goin'. for that i salute you!
"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
 
canoecarrier
Posts: 2573
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2004 1:20 pm

RE: Happy AMT Day!

Fri May 28, 2004 7:23 pm

Guys, I have to say, this is what I should have expected with a bunch of grease monkeys! 10 people knowing what's right and one asking the others what the hell is going on!  Wink/being sarcastic

I know everyone of you does your best, and fulfills a very valuable cog in the system. Even though it's not AMT day anymore, you're all on my "buy them a beer" list.
The beatings will continue until morale improves
 
FDXmech
Posts: 3219
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 9:48 pm

RE: Happy AMT Day!

Fri May 28, 2004 10:59 pm

>>>More of the same. (see above) So many AMTs and AMEs seem to be ashamed of what they are (in my opinion) when there is absolutely no basis for it.<<<

Not me, nor have I really met anybody who was. Not to say there are those who rather be doing something else, but ashamed, no.
It sounds to me you are ashamed of AMT's or maybe AMT's should be ashamed of themselves, which is your right.

>>>AMTs maintain airplanes. Pilots fly them.<<<

Pretty obvious observation. I haven't met a mechanic who thought otherwise.

>>>This very board (A.net Tech/Ops) is full of comments from pilots about very technical subjects that AMTs are far more qualified to answer but have their comments disregarded in favour of the pilot "god" of aviation's statement.<<<

It appears to me you have a problem with pilots, not us.
Pilots are as much entitled to their .02 cents on this board regarding technical aspects as you or I.

>>>Many AMTs like to hint that they are "engineers". Here in Canada when someone asks an AME what he does for a living, the answer is often "aircraft engineer". They somehow forget to mention the "M" for maintenance word. Not a rub. Not an insult. Just an observation.<<<

My personal choice is A&P Mechanic or Aircraft Mechanic

>>>" It’s a damn good thing that airplane design and certification standards are as stringent and complete as they are.<<<

Obviously.

>>>There. That's the whole thing. Is it putting down AMTs? I don't think so.<<<

I think perhaps you don't realize that you are (like a person unaware he has rancid breath) or perhaps you do.
I happen to think you are quite elitist. On the one hand you feel compelled to put aircraft mechanics in their place and on the other hand resent pilots horning in on your "Own Private Idaho".
Your mistake is thinking your position (whatever that is) entitles you to some sort of preeminence. Therefore to make a point you sometimes feel compelled to make a federal issue using the most trivial or obscure data.

>>>It is my personal policy, here in the great world of the internet, not to answer many questions that would help pinpoint my identity.>>>

Well either you're some sort of CEO, secret agent or the Canadian aviation industry encompasses 14 people where your ID can be logically deduced.

In regards to a latter posting of aviation accidents. In this board usually people with no connection to aviation resort to such methods to prove a point. Usually it's those hobby aviationists doing that. Usually because one could retort by raising design and engineering issues that have cause tragedys as well.

[Edited 2004-05-28 16:11:45]
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
KAUSpilot
Posts: 1684
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 2:15 pm

RE: Happy AMT Day!

Fri May 28, 2004 11:50 pm

Belated happy AMT day to you all.....you guys are the best. Keep up the good work.
 
airplay
Posts: 3369
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 1:58 am

RE: Happy AMT Day!

Sat May 29, 2004 1:22 am

Your mistake is thinking your position (whatever that is) entitles you to some sort of preeminence.

Uh...no. I have humbly stated several times that I am sharing my "opinion" and that nobody is under any obligation to agree. Did you miss that part FDXMech? I have also stated that engineers are not typically capable of doing an AMT's job. Preemninece? If I come off that way, it wasn't intended.

In regards to a latter posting of aviation accidents. In this board usually people with no connection to aviation resort to such methods to prove a point. Usually it's those hobby aviationists doing that.

Aviationists?  Smile Not true. I was specifically asked to supply information to back up my opinion. Remember the "airplanes aren't falling out of the sky" comment? I don't think I presented any obscure or irrelevant information. As a matter of fact I presented quite relevant and recent information from a very well respected organization. If we don't learn from mistakes (accidents) we are condemned to repeat them....

Usually because one could retort by raising design and engineering issues that have cause tragedies as well

By all means. Please raise some for discussion. If it results in improvements it will be well worth it.

We are all aware of the more famous ones like the Comet structural issues. Good example of engineering gone bad, the development of creative methods to examine the problem, and a fix that helped cement the jet age.

And how about that Japan Airlines 747 catastrophe where Boeing engineering designed a repair for the rear pressure bulkhead. The repair was inadequate and caused a massive decompression that caused the vertical stab to leave the airplane. I heard that the Boeing engineer was so upset that he ended his own life over it.

If you are aware of any FAA (or other authoritative entity) studies concerning poor design and engineering practices, please share. That’s the purpose of these forums.

Oh and one more thing...happy birthday to the Dionne Quinuplets!
 
737doctor
Topic Author
Posts: 1291
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2001 4:52 pm

RE: Happy AMT Day!

Tue Jun 01, 2004 2:45 am

Oh and one more thing...happy birthday to the Dionne Quinuplets!

Sorry, I couldn't let the thread end like that.

It really should have ended with the post above it:

Belated happy AMT day to you all.....you guys are the best. Keep up the good work.
Patrick Bateman is my hero.
 
BILLAMT
Posts: 88
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 10:31 am

RE: Happy AMT Day!

Fri Jun 04, 2004 6:08 am

Ha ha ha, I just found this thread! You know who airplay reminds me of? You guys ever have a train wreck for an AMT at your base? How did you treat that person? I think someone is bitter!!!

Airplay sounds like you have LDS ( Little D##K syndrome ). Go park your worthless ass infront of a CAD program. Your problably safer there. Let us know the next time you fly, so someone can defer your seat.

Its a shame we won't ever find out who this clown is.


I'm not really a mechanic, i'm just a maintainer.
Pilots aren't really pilots, they are just observers. After all, how many pilots hand fly their aircraft anymore?

This is dumb, and part 121 ops is better off without you.

[Edited 2004-06-03 23:15:14]

Oh yeah, DL mech, welcome to my respected users list ( like it really matters ). Last time I was in the FIM, it only said what pins to look at. Didn't say a damn thing on how to get at them, or the 4 hrs spent disassembling an avionics compartment just to get to the problem. T/S is an art.

[Edited 2004-06-03 23:18:45]
 
User avatar
DL_Mech
Posts: 2577
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 7:48 am

RE: Happy AMT Day!

Fri Jun 04, 2004 11:20 am

Didn't say a damn thing on how to get at them, or the 4 hrs spent disassembling an avionics compartment just to get to the problem. T/S is an art.

I think we all have been in that situation......For Me, Cargo Loading systems kick my a$$ for some reason. Too many switches and relays for this "maintainer" to comprehend. Anyway, thanks for the respect.
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.

Former AMT on A220,A310,A319/20/21,A330,A350,B707,B717,B727,B737,B747,B757,B767,B777,DC-9,DC-10,L-1011,
MD-80/90,MD-11
 
airplay
Posts: 3369
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 1:58 am

RE: Happy AMT Day!

Fri Jun 04, 2004 9:58 pm

BILLAMT,

I just read through your post. Twice. The result? It offers absolutely nothing of value. Just insults. You didn't address any of the issues discussed.

And who said I'm not involved in part 121 ops? I'm much more involved than you think....


 
Jetfixer75
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun May 16, 2004 2:21 pm

RE: Happy AMT Day!

Sun Jun 06, 2004 9:42 am

You're right about that, Airplay, and I discussed that exact incident and how MX outsourcing played a significant role in this thread


737doctor,

Not all MRO's are third rate hack shops. I've been at one for the last 8 yrs and we have had a damn good safety record. I take just as much pride in the work that I do as you do that actually works for the airline. You are right about some outsourcing, some need to be shut down, but we're not all like that.

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