We all know FLY BY WIRE. What about FLY BY LIGHT? What's that? Is it any more advanced than FLY BY WIRE?
Is it being used on any aircraft?
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RE: Fly By Light?
Just like any fly-by, only with less aircraft. 
Just kidding. Fly by light is the same thing as FBW, only the signals go through fiberoptic cables rather than electrical wires.
Cheers,
Fred
Just kidding. Fly by light is the same thing as FBW, only the signals go through fiberoptic cables rather than electrical wires.
Cheers,
Fred
I thought I was doing good trying to avoid those airport hotels... and look at me now.
RE: Fly By Light?
Fly by light can potentially provide weight savings by allowing multiplexing of signals going through one fiber optic strand, instead of a bundle of wires. Ít also will save on maintenance costs by reducing the amount of maintenance hours required, supposedly.
Not sure if it's feasible to be implemented yet, but I imagine it won't be long before commercial aircraft will be using this technology.
Not sure if it's feasible to be implemented yet, but I imagine it won't be long before commercial aircraft will be using this technology.
RE: Fly By Light?
Military designs have been proposed maybe even tested, I'm not sure, where the fiberoptic filaments are actually used as reinforcing fibers in the composite structure of the AC. If you used throughout the skin almost unlimited pathways are possible resulting in retention of control in even a very badly damaged bird.
Neat s*it!
Dl757md
Neat s*it!
Dl757md
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- ArmitageShanks
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RE: Fly By Light?
Am I right by saying thousands of different data streams can be sent through a tiny wire about the size of a human hair?
RE: Fly By Light?
ArmitageShanks
You are correct although it's called a filament rather than a wire.
Dl757md
You are correct although it's called a filament rather than a wire.
Dl757md
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
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- QantasA332
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RE: Fly By Light?
I know that Eurocopter for one has been testing it on its EC135s for a while...
Cheers,
QantasA332
Cheers,
QantasA332
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- United Airline
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RE: Fly By Light?
The proposed B 747 Advanced will be FBW right?
But not the B 747-400/400ER which are by using hydralic systems.
What about the MD 11?
But not the B 747-400/400ER which are by using hydralic systems.
What about the MD 11?
RE: Fly By Light?
They'll both be using hydraulic systems. The difference is in how they control the hydraulic actuators.
There has been attempts at replacing the hydraulics with electrical motors but these have run into problems.
Cheers,
Fred
There has been attempts at replacing the hydraulics with electrical motors but these have run into problems.
Cheers,
Fred
I thought I was doing good trying to avoid those airport hotels... and look at me now.
RE: Fly By Light?
Fly by wire is great because the control imputs go right into a huge data bus. Fly by light will be great when the data bus for the entire airplane becomes fiber optic. That is when you will save cable weight. Until then, there is little to be gained by only having the control imputs as fiber optic.
As for MTC cost, not so sure it would save anything. You still have to make sure fiber connections stay clean and that the lines do not get broken (they are much more brittle than wire, and can't make as tight a bend).
Shawn
As for MTC cost, not so sure it would save anything. You still have to make sure fiber connections stay clean and that the lines do not get broken (they are much more brittle than wire, and can't make as tight a bend).
Shawn
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- DfwRevolution
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RE: Fly By Light?
Not sure if it's feasible to be implemented yet, but I imagine it won't be long before commercial aircraft will be using this technology.
I've read that Boeing plans to use fiber optic cableing for not only FBW but for all avionic data busses. The Seattle PI article about the 7E7 being the most electic plane to date deatils this.
The proposed B 747 Advanced will be FBW right?
Depends, but my gut says no. For one thing, Boeing has not published any firm details about such an aircraft. It's very much a "paper" airplane.
If Boeing uses a bleedless version of the GENEX and Trent 1000 on the 747-Adv, then nearly all major systems will require redesign, including flight controls. If Boeing is going to completly replace the flight controls of the 747, I don't see why they wouldn't implement FBW. But if Boeing uses a bleeded engine of some type, I doubt it would be converted to FBW. Boeing does not want to spend a lot of development $ on the 747-Adv, so FBW might get axed.
I've read that Boeing plans to use fiber optic cableing for not only FBW but for all avionic data busses. The Seattle PI article about the 7E7 being the most electic plane to date deatils this.
The proposed B 747 Advanced will be FBW right?
Depends, but my gut says no. For one thing, Boeing has not published any firm details about such an aircraft. It's very much a "paper" airplane.
If Boeing uses a bleedless version of the GENEX and Trent 1000 on the 747-Adv, then nearly all major systems will require redesign, including flight controls. If Boeing is going to completly replace the flight controls of the 747, I don't see why they wouldn't implement FBW. But if Boeing uses a bleeded engine of some type, I doubt it would be converted to FBW. Boeing does not want to spend a lot of development $ on the 747-Adv, so FBW might get axed.
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
RE: Fly By Light?
There is a BAC 1-11 at Brooklands that was a Fly By Light demonstrator a/c.
Don't know if there are any pics in the d.b. though.
Don't know if there are any pics in the d.b. though.
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- QantasA332
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RE: Fly By Light?
Here's the BAC-111 FBL testbed; there's only one photo in the DB:
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Photo © Colin K. Work - AirTeamImages
Cheers,
QantasA332
Photo © Colin K. Work - AirTeamImages
Cheers,
QantasA332
RE: Fly By Light?
While the 777 uses good old fashion fly-by-wire for flight control it dies use fiber optics for other functions. The Maintenance Access Terminal (MAT) in the cockpit communicates with the AIMS cabinet in the avionics bay via fiber optics. The neat thing about fiber optics is that you don't have to worry about wires going bad. However one has to be careful routing fiber optics as not to break the them.
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- nudelhirsch
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RE: Fly By Light?
Ho about fly by WiFi...lol
No, I seriously have a question:
I know from computer networking, that fiberoptic cables need looong turns around corners, and they break if they are bent too much. Is it realistic on an airplane, especially in the crowded structure segments and moving parts to install them? Would a light-current-converter be installed and normal cables be used?
Also, fiberoptic cables are capable of far more data speed, can there result a problem on an AC when both technologies are mixed?
No, I seriously have a question:
I know from computer networking, that fiberoptic cables need looong turns around corners, and they break if they are bent too much. Is it realistic on an airplane, especially in the crowded structure segments and moving parts to install them? Would a light-current-converter be installed and normal cables be used?
Also, fiberoptic cables are capable of far more data speed, can there result a problem on an AC when both technologies are mixed?
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RE: Fly By Light?
I can´t see a major mechanical problem in the installation of fiber cables... A little planning and a few changes in the routing should be sufficient.
Data speed is not a problem; Digital multiplexed signals will connect routers or interface nodes throughout the aircraft and the data sub-streams relevant at that point can be extracted or injected as needed; Data stream speed conversion is based on established standard techniques and shouldn´t be a problem.
Using single fiber cables instead of the old copper wire bundles could also open the opportunity to increase redundancy by adding more independent signal paths for increased safety at still lower weight.
Improved immunity against electromagnetic interference is just another added bonus.
Theoretically, you only need one electric power bus and one single fiber-optical data connection to control everything. Having multiple copies of those would only be for redundancy. (Multiplexed data communication is already used with copper wires, so it´s only a relatively minor step to replace them with optical fibers.)
Data speed is not a problem; Digital multiplexed signals will connect routers or interface nodes throughout the aircraft and the data sub-streams relevant at that point can be extracted or injected as needed; Data stream speed conversion is based on established standard techniques and shouldn´t be a problem.
Using single fiber cables instead of the old copper wire bundles could also open the opportunity to increase redundancy by adding more independent signal paths for increased safety at still lower weight.
Improved immunity against electromagnetic interference is just another added bonus.
Theoretically, you only need one electric power bus and one single fiber-optical data connection to control everything. Having multiple copies of those would only be for redundancy. (Multiplexed data communication is already used with copper wires, so it´s only a relatively minor step to replace them with optical fibers.)
RE: Fly By Light?
Back in the 1970s an A-7 aircraft was fitted with fiber optic cables weighing about 2 kg to replace a 40 kg copper-wire harness. Amusingly, a heavy metal weight had to be installed to re-balance the aircraft.
The technology, components and fiber optic "wires" are all available today to be used in FBL (Fly-By-Light) systems. In particular, the low-loss, broadband, perfluorinated optical fiber which was developed by professor Yasuhiro KOIKE at Keio University in Japan more than 2 years ago, has made FBL practical.
The fiber resembles nylon fishing line and is almost as strong. Transmission distances of more than 1 km carrying signals at 1 Gb/s can be supported.
Cabling an aircraft will be no problem because the fiber can be made to have a diameter of about 1 mm and sheathed with non-flammable plastic. The large diameter makes splicing and connectorization an easy task. Also, there are no fine glass-fiber ends that might be left behind to cause health problems.
Existing components such as photonic transmission/receiver modules and connectors can all be used with a little or no modification. In fact, "old", well developed technology can be used.
The system design engineer will have a wide range of network options to consider. A data-bus type network using 1 GHz/100 MHz/10 MHz Ethernet technology might be considered although the star-network of the centralized switching configuration might offer a more diverse distribution of transmission paths. In either case, ample redundancy can be built in because of the large volume and weight of copper-wires that the plastic fiber optic cable will be replacing.
Happy FBL!
The technology, components and fiber optic "wires" are all available today to be used in FBL (Fly-By-Light) systems. In particular, the low-loss, broadband, perfluorinated optical fiber which was developed by professor Yasuhiro KOIKE at Keio University in Japan more than 2 years ago, has made FBL practical.
The fiber resembles nylon fishing line and is almost as strong. Transmission distances of more than 1 km carrying signals at 1 Gb/s can be supported.
Cabling an aircraft will be no problem because the fiber can be made to have a diameter of about 1 mm and sheathed with non-flammable plastic. The large diameter makes splicing and connectorization an easy task. Also, there are no fine glass-fiber ends that might be left behind to cause health problems.
Existing components such as photonic transmission/receiver modules and connectors can all be used with a little or no modification. In fact, "old", well developed technology can be used.
The system design engineer will have a wide range of network options to consider. A data-bus type network using 1 GHz/100 MHz/10 MHz Ethernet technology might be considered although the star-network of the centralized switching configuration might offer a more diverse distribution of transmission paths. In either case, ample redundancy can be built in because of the large volume and weight of copper-wires that the plastic fiber optic cable will be replacing.
Happy FBL!
RE: Fly By Light?
I've heard rumors going around here that a couple of Eurofighters and a Tornado are being used as testbeds for FBL systems. Will check around and see what I can dredge up!
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- delta-flyer
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RE: Fly By Light?
MacAir has test flown an F-15 demonstrator in the early 90's called FLASH - Fly By Light .... something (can't remember)
It also used a number of EHA's for flight controls (Electro-Hydrostatic Actuators)
Pete
It also used a number of EHA's for flight controls (Electro-Hydrostatic Actuators)
Pete
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
RE: Fly By Light?
The BAc1-11 at Brooklands (pictured earlier) only had 1 set of control surfaces operating under 'fly-by-light' with normal control systems on the rest.
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