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jutes85
Topic Author
Posts: 1854
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:50 pm

Taxi-Run Qualification

Wed Jun 16, 2004 12:04 pm

In the photo below the caption says that a mechanic is taxiing the aircraft to the hangar for maintence. I didn't even know it was possible for mechanics to physically start the engines and "drive" the aircraft to the hangar.

I was wondering how you would go about getting this rating or do you get free training once you establish employment from an airline? Any AME's on this site have this type of rating?

Thanks.


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nothing
 
dl757md
Posts: 1483
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 9:32 am

RE: Taxi-Run Qualification

Wed Jun 16, 2004 12:21 pm

To my knowledge there is no government license for taxiing AC. The airline provides the training.

At Delta you must pass a general familiarization course and check ride for each type of AC. Pass a general taxi course and an annual taxi physical.

I am taxi qualified on the 737-800, 757, 767-200/300/400, and I was L-1011.

Dl757md
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
jutes85
Topic Author
Posts: 1854
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:50 pm

RE: Taxi-Run Qualification

Wed Jun 16, 2004 12:26 pm

Thanks for clarifying it for me Dl.

and an annual taxi physical.

Physical? For what? Just to see if you can still fit in the seat.
nothing
 
cdfmxtech
Posts: 1319
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2000 11:37 am

RE: Taxi-Run Qualification

Wed Jun 16, 2004 12:55 pm

I suspect that he means that he has an Annual Checkride to make certain that he is still capable of being in control of the aircraft.
 
dl757md
Posts: 1483
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 9:32 am

RE: Taxi-Run Qualification

Wed Jun 16, 2004 12:58 pm

Physical? For what? Just to see if you can still fit in the seat

No, they check blood pressure, hearing, and vision.
Also at Delta the intial checkride in type is the only one.
No annuals.

[Edited 2004-06-16 06:00:14]
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
320tech
Posts: 489
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 11:38 am

RE: Taxi-Run Qualification

Wed Jun 16, 2004 1:12 pm

In Canada, no separate "licence" is required to carry out a ground run or a taxi. These qualifications are controlled by the employer. In some cases, at least, there is a separate course for run ups and taxis.

For example, at the airline where I work, AME's take their type endorsement course (A320 in my case, 6 weeks long). After some time working on the aircraft, I would be sent on the A320 Run Up course, operated by my employer. Having successfully completed that course, and a check out at my home base, I would be run up qualified. The taxi course is separate, but works the same way.

The Dash-8 run up course I took for a previous employer incorporated a taxi segment, so I could have taxied or run Dash-8's (if I had stayed there).

So, in short, it depends how the employer wants to do it - they can operate their own courses (must be approved by Transport Canada), or they can send their AME's to another company for it. The company issues the qualification.
The primary function of the design engineer is to make things difficult for the manufacturer and impossible for the AME.
 
RiffedAAMech
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 7:35 am

RE: Taxi-Run Qualification

Wed Jun 16, 2004 1:15 pm

You have to take the General familiarization course for the A/C, Take all the CBT courses (computer based training) for engine run up, cockpit controls, then go out with instructor for checkride. Thats just to be able to have a engine run up qualification. There is another test for taxiing aircraft.
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13899
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RE: Taxi-Run Qualification

Wed Jun 16, 2004 6:51 pm

Here in Germany it depends largely on the airport company. Most airports in Germany require a pilot to do the taxiing.
But, of course we do engine runs, incl. high power runs. This is regulated by our airline´s General Maintenance Manual and Ground Operations Manual.
I do B757, MD-11 and (when I finish the current course I´m on in three weeks time) Airbus A300-600.
Unfortunately no taxi due to airport regulations.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
greasespot
Posts: 2968
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 10:48 am

RE: Taxi-Run Qualification

Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:38 pm

Where I work as long as you are lisc. and endorsed on the aircraft you can taxi and run the aircraft. There are no test or qualifications. Part of the endorsement course is a engine run but that is it. As for taxiing I have done it but never had any training. We run the engines so often that I guess they figure we do not need any re-qual.

Greasespot
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
Buzz
Posts: 694
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 1999 11:44 pm

RE: Taxi-Run Qualification

Wed Jun 16, 2004 10:19 pm

Hi Jutes85, Buzz here. When i was in the Air Force (in the '80's) a few mechanics were engine run qualified. But it took a pilot to taxi.

At UAL they get a few people on the crew qualified to static -run, or taxi, or high power. It depends on the needs of the crew - you are "invited" by your Lead Mechanic, or Foreman to shoulder the responsibility of possibly causing lots of aircraft damage. OK, so i've got more of-road time in a 737 than anybody else i know (grin)

After you become a Line Mechanic and are assigned to a crew, you get to go to a week of Systems Introduction. It's a basic class of what's related to what on an airliner. Next you work on the airplanes for "a while".
If your Lead thinks you can handle the stress, and has need of another pit mechanic, you go to the first phase of the taxi-run classes. We would spend a week learning the pit, and what the different systems do, and take a few tests.

In the previous century we'd get to go to DEN and have disaster drills, make mistakes electronically in the flight sims. This was generally late at night between 10 pm and 2 am (no problem for us midnght guys). Yes, we'd take turns flying the sims.

Next you go back to your crew and hook up with hour freindly neighborhhood DST (designated station trainer) who would walk you through engine starts, simple system tests.

After you're comfortable with that, you get to learn to taxi. I find most people drive well, but talking to "the guys in the glass house" (the tower) is difficult. And they get used to working as a crew in the pit - one guy shouldn't do it all. 2 brains, 2 sets of eyes, 2 ways to prevent a screw-up.

Then you get to make the DST nervous - high power tests. After a fuel control change, or a few other things we have to take the airplane out to the Hush House and go to takeoff power. Mechanics get to do this, very few Line Pilots are willing to wait up all night to see if what we worked on is OK.

And we test the engine work differently than a Line pilot does. I don't know of pilots who will sit still and lock the brakes, and ram one throttle full forward, while the guy in the other seat has his head down timing the acceleration.

Besides, it's kind of satisfying to test your work. I've done DC-8's, Dc-10, 727, 2 kinds of 737, 757,and A320.

g'day
Buzz Fuselsausage: Line Mechanic by night, DC-3 Crew Chief by choice, taildragger pilot for fun
 
Whiskeyflyer
Posts: 223
Joined: Mon May 13, 2002 3:07 pm

RE: Taxi-Run Qualification

Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:31 pm

we're actually currently going through the motions of making a procedure/qualifications to get our mechanics approved for engine runs and taxing aircraft.
The problem is not the training etc. Its the insurance.

Trying telling an insurance guy that not only a person holding a pilot's licence can run and taxi an aircraft is a problem.
We want to make sure our guys are covered if they do manage to hit something..............
 
EMBQA
Posts: 7858
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:52 am

RE: Taxi-Run Qualification

Thu Jun 17, 2004 3:56 am

I also hold a Run-Taxi card. The airline I worked for had a multi step process in order to get your 'card'. First was a general FAM Class held in a classroom on the aircraft and its systems. Then you had to spend some time in the right seat assisting and observing, then move over to the left seat. After that, a qualified mechanic would sign you off to move on to the next step. Next came a qualified maintenance taxi trainer. You would be in the left seat, he in the right. He would drill you on general system knowledge, system checks, taxi procedures, emergency procedure....on and on. Once signed off by the maintenance taxi trainer, you took your final test. You would go out with an IOE Training Capt. He would put you through the same paces as the upgrading Capts. Once you had made it through this final step...you where done.....As we flew into 2 major east coast airports, the guys there had to receive additional training for the unique requirements at BOS and LGA, and their card was endorsed for those airports.

I didn't even know it was possible for mechanics to physically start the engines and "drive" the aircraft to the hangar.
Ooh, by the way....most of the mechanics I have worked with know the aircraft WAY better then most of the flight crews I have worked with.


[Edited 2004-06-16 21:02:11]
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
242
Posts: 495
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2000 1:10 pm

RE: Taxi-Run Qualification

Thu Jun 17, 2004 10:33 am

>>>To my knowledge there is no government license for taxiing AC.<<<

Your A&P ticket plus company training is your licence to run/taxi aircraft.

Am I the only one who had to take an entire course in A&P school on airport operations and aircraft taxi procedures? I had to run mutiple engine types and taxi small piston aircraft to graduate.

Anyone with an A&P has the certifications -but not qualifications- to taxi an aircraft for maintenance puposes. The qualifications come from the employer in the form of specialized aircraft training.

>>>I didn't even know it was possible for mechanics to physically start the engines and "drive" the aircraft to the hangar.<<<

Well, you learned something today. Aircraft mechs have been running engines and "driving" aircraft since there have been aircraft. Check out the movie "Airport".

 
starline
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:43 am

RE: Taxi-Run Qualification

Fri Jun 18, 2004 3:36 am

Hi,

in Germany it's written down in aviation laws that in general the only thing you need is a written statement of the airline you work for that they want you to taxi the aircraft and you should be familiar with and able to control the aircraft.
But as you work acc. to your employers MOE, they will tell you if you are allowed to taxi an a/c or not and whether you need add. training.
I only got ground idle approval for engine runs on BAe146/RJ and ATR.
 
airplay
Posts: 3369
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 1:58 am

RE: Taxi-Run Qualification

Fri Jun 18, 2004 3:51 am

Where I work as long as you are lisc. and endorsed on the aircraft you can taxi and run the aircraft.


That sounds like an accident waiting to happen in my opinion.
 
VC-10
Posts: 3552
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 1999 11:34 am

RE: Taxi-Run Qualification

Fri Jun 18, 2004 4:44 am

My experience has been:-

After you have sucessfully passed the engine type course and passed sim training your Quality dept will grant you authorisation to run engines either low power or high power.

Taxy authorisation is separate.

Personally I hold (held) high power authorisation on BAC1-11, A300, A310, A320/1 (CFM & IAE), A343/6, B747 Classic (PW, GE & RR), B744 (GE) B757 (RR) & DC-10

In addition I am one of my companies Taxi chk engineers on the 747 Classic & 400, A320 and A343/6. I have also held taxi on the BAC 1-11 & DC-10.


Basically the ground rule is you taxi when useing a tug isn't practical. Generally at a airport like LHR you taxi to ground run areas because it is so busy it is the quickest way to get there. If you towed you continually giving way to taxing a/c
 
FRASYD
Posts: 173
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 7:34 pm

RE: Taxi-Run Qualification

Mon Jun 21, 2004 4:19 am

One thing nobody has stated so far:

I think you will generally need an ATC-license to be allowed to communicate with ATC during taxi.
 
air2gxs
Posts: 1443
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RE: Taxi-Run Qualification

Mon Jun 21, 2004 4:37 am

Actually in the US you can operate the radios under the company license. Now, some airports in the US, ORD comes to mind, you need an airport certification to taxi aircraft, along with whatever cert. your airline gives you.
 
dl757md
Posts: 1483
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 9:32 am

RE: Taxi-Run Qualification

Mon Jun 21, 2004 4:39 am

FRASYD

I think you will generally need an ATC-license to be allowed to communicate with ATC during taxi.

I'm not sure how it works in Europe but here you don't need an ATC license.
I'm not even sure what that is. Communications are covered in our taxi qualification courses, but as for a separate ATC license - No

Dl757md
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
VC-10
Posts: 3552
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 1999 11:34 am

RE: Taxi-Run Qualification

Mon Jun 21, 2004 5:38 am

Strictly speaking you need a VHF licence but no-one bothers in the UK. However when I am checking an engineer out it doesn't matter how well he taxy's if he is no good on the radio he doesn't get approved.
 
FRASYD
Posts: 173
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 7:34 pm

RE: Taxi-Run Qualification

Mon Jun 21, 2004 11:52 pm

Well, it might be easier for Americans or British people to understand what the tower is trying to tell you.

German mechanics might not be that good in English to get every single word the controller is telling you.

You need a license to be approved for english-speeking ATC-com here in Germany.
 
FinnWings
Posts: 633
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 6:03 am

RE: Taxi-Run Qualification

Tue Jun 22, 2004 3:59 am

I think you will generally need an ATC-license to be allowed to communicate with ATC during taxi.

It depends of the airport... These are quite complicated rules and there is also some black holes with these rules as well. I mean that once you are airborne you'll comply with VFR or IFR rules which is very obvious of course. Communication with air traffic control once airborne is allowed for person who owns license to do that (no PPL or other flight license needed, though). So basically in the airborne you need a license always....

Situation is more complicated on the ground. Like someone stated above, flight rules don't determine that you need any license for taxiing. So in theory, anyone can taxi aircraft on the ground! I don't recommend to try anyway...you'll get trouble with that. In real life this isn't so clear... if you are crossing ATC-boundary, then you need the clearance. In some smaller airports you can taxi without clearance on the apron, but if you are going to runway then you need a clearance of course. At many bigger airports you need ALWAYS clearance for taxiing, pushback start-up etc... Basically for everything. Then you must have this radio license again...

There is also a lot of different regulations by different airport authorities which determines who are allowed to taxi aircraft and how. Also insurance issues, airline policies etc...

So basically, funny thing is that I'm not able to give controls of the aircraft even for a while to person who don't have license, but in some cases I could hand over even entire aircraft for some person without license to taxi aircraft. In theory only, of course...  Smile

Air law is interesting, but sometimes quite difficult as well.  Big grin

Safe Flights,
FinnWings
 
undies737
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2003 11:21 pm

RE: Taxi-Run Qualification

Sun Jul 11, 2004 11:02 pm

A subject I've discussed with my collegues many times.

It would be great if this existed in Australia, not sure if Qantas, Virginblue, Jetstar has such provision.

We have an in-house "engine runner's" qualification, but the airforce has a "us & them" mentality.

"Unless you're a pilot wearing a commissioned rank (officer) with a college education, you're deemed to lack the required brain power to manouver an aircraft under it's own power"  Pissed Pissed
But you can thrash the life out of it with the park brake on & chocks in!

They really do regard the troops highly! not!

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