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Francoflier
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Posts: 5791
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2001 12:27 pm

Flamin' Reversers?

Sun Jun 20, 2004 10:42 am

Hi all,

I have a question:

Today as we were holding short one of MK's DC-8 was finishing his landing course in front of us, all reversers deployed.

The reverser were clamshell type, and between the engine exhaust and the clamshells, during the whole time they used the thrust reversers, we could see some huge flames coming out the exhausts, from all the engines...

I did not pay much attention to the reg number, but I think it was that A/C:


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It really looked like the engines were stalling, too bad I couldn't hear it either.

Are those old JT-3 known for that, or was there any particular reason for this to happen?
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
wilco737
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:21 am

RE: Flamin' Reversers?

Sun Jun 20, 2004 3:51 pm

Hi Fracoflier,

that is a really good question! Flames on an engine never seems to be good  Wink/being sarcastic
Usually you cannot see the combustion chamber, where the flames are... I do not know exactly how the JTD-3 engine works (we use CFM-56-7 Turbofan) but flames coming out during thrust reverser activation sounds pretty strange!

A stalling engine is also really bad! It is coupled with a loud bang (really loud) and for a second or two complete thrust loss on this engine (doesn't matter if forward or reverse thrust). So, if you encounter an engine stall, you reduce the engine RPM that the engine is no longer stalling. Also you would encounter a yaw moment if that's happened. So I guess it wasn't an engine stall. Perhaps they used full reverser and not just a bit and the flames were just seeable... But I don't know exactly why...


WILCO737
 
Fly2HMO
Posts: 7184
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:14 pm

RE: Flamin' Reversers?

Mon Jun 21, 2004 11:18 am

Maybe the engines were injected with NO2 (nitrous oxide).  Big thumbs up
 
A/c train
Posts: 674
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2001 7:57 am

RE: Flamin' Reversers?

Mon Jun 21, 2004 11:57 pm

On the engines I work on "high bypass", the core flow isnt disrupted on thrust reverser actuation, obviously the engine speed chnages but the bypass flow is reversed, the mass of air going into the engine chages as the aircraft speed decreases but the engines have VBV's to cope with this, if an engine stalls on a/c I work on, somethings wrong, e.g RB211, open the right hand fan cowls, look at the BVCU for a fault code and see what it says, if it has one then look on top of the BVCU and change the component which lines up with the number, job done !!
 
Arcano
Posts: 2301
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:34 am

RE: Flamin' Reversers?

Tue Jun 22, 2004 2:47 pm

I watched the same a couple of years ago:
I was in ARI, a small boring airport. I watched the board and realized a LB 727 was about to land, so I went outside for taking a look. Indeed, the 727 was in approach (looked beautiful at the sunset!). Them, after touchdown and when the reversers started to deploy, a heard a big BOOOOOM and many sparks and black smoke came out of nº1 engine. Believe me, I truly though the whole bird was gonna blow up, and I though the expansion wave would gonna catch me!
Well, nothing happened, the thing parked well and nobody onboard looked scared.
I know LB has a very good safety record, but since then I would feel little scared to ride them!

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Arcano)(
in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
 
EMBQA
Posts: 7859
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:52 am

RE: Flamin' Reversers?

Mon Jun 28, 2004 12:01 am

Compressor Stall..........
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13899
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Flamin' Reversers?

Mon Jun 28, 2004 4:29 am

The JT8D is almost unbreakable. It can withstand conditions where most modern engines will spit compressor and turbine blades.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
cancidas
Posts: 3985
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2003 7:34 am

RE: Flamin' Reversers?

Mon Jun 28, 2004 2:44 pm

well... flames are normal when they are coming out of the exhaust stacks of old radials! Big grin


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yea baby!!
"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
 
Mr Spaceman
Posts: 2723
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2001 5:09 am

RE: Flamin' Reversers?

Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:10 am

Hi guys.

As Cancidas mentioned, some flames are normal, especially during the startup sequence of some big old radials.

Even some starter systems themselves would/will shoot out very amazing bluish-orange torch-like flames from below the engine which is something I witnessed for years whenever I was on the ramp at YYZ and one of our Convair 580s was starting up. That's quite a sight a nightime.  Big thumbs up

Anyhow, I know none of this is really about Francoflier's origional question, but I thought I'd mention it because it involved flames.

Check out these wicked looking flames. I wonder how often this happens?


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Chris  Smile
"Just a minute while I re-invent myself"
 
fly727
Posts: 1756
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2003 8:27 am

RE: Flamin' Reversers?

Tue Jun 29, 2004 8:08 am

EMBQA said: Compressor Stall

Exactly. We had one yesterday when we landed in MTY airport and used reverse thrust. One passenger even approached to us during the turnaround to mention it. He was sort of scared though. Nothing to be worried about.

RM  Smile
There are no stupid questions... just stupid people!
 
Gib
Posts: 277
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2001 5:01 am

RE: Flamin' Reversers?

Tue Jun 29, 2004 10:03 pm

Exactly.... Compression/Compressor Stall.... Cool!
 
FDXmech
Posts: 3219
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 9:48 pm

RE: Flamin' Reversers?

Tue Jun 29, 2004 10:22 pm

With the older Pratts up to the older JT9D's the saying goes;

"Engine damage can cause a stall but an engine stall can't cause engine damage".
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
miamiair
Posts: 4249
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:42 pm

RE: Flamin' Reversers?

Fri Jul 16, 2004 9:37 pm

The JT3D-7's are prone to compressor stalls. You shoud see what type of damage that does to the fan air ducts inside. On the DC-8-62/-63, the translating ring that has the clam shells on them, slide aft, hit a stop, and then the clam shells close allowing the diversion of the exhaust. Usually want to let up before you slow down past 80kts. Sometimes crosswinds will make the situation possible/worse.

The DC-8s could actually use reverse thrust on the inboard engines in flight to slow down (tossing out an anchor) and descend (like a ruptured duck).
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