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na
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Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Mon Jul 05, 2004 6:16 pm

I know the overweight issue comes up every two weeks here, but "Der Spiegel", Germany´s leading news magazine, has specified the problems in todays issue.
And as opposed to 4 tons overweight as said in the last thread on this forum "Der Spiegel" says its actually 14 tons fat we´re talking!
While engine-pylons, wingbox and the middle undercarriage are lighter than planned, the fuselage alone weighs a hefty 11 tons more than expected (without any luxury features!), the wings 2 1/2 tons, the engines almost 1 ton, the main undercarriage is 0,7 tons too heavy.

Airbus engineers expect the A380 will be 290 tons instead of the planned 276. This will make it nearly impossible to achieve the 3 liter fuel per 100 km per pax goal Airbus wanted.

There is not much time left for significant improvements.
 
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johnboy
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RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Mon Jul 05, 2004 6:19 pm

*sigh*.....there goes the swimming pool......
 
FlySwiss
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RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Mon Jul 05, 2004 6:30 pm

14 tons heavier then designed..... wow... the airlines that ordered the A380 won't be happy.

Us the A380 pax version still able to carry cargo beside the lagguage?
Simle at the world and the world smiles back :)
 
Alessandro
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RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Mon Jul 05, 2004 6:35 pm

Na, how much lighter than expected are the wing-box, engine pylons and middle undercarriage?
Which engine are refered to, the RR-engine?

From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
cedarjet
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RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Mon Jul 05, 2004 6:37 pm

Really?! I find it hard to believe that Airbus' calculations could be so far off the mark, I mean, 14 tonnes out of 276 is about 5% heavier than planned. How could all the CAD that money can buy not foresee this situation?
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
sabenapilot
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RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Mon Jul 05, 2004 6:41 pm

Oh now, not again! This topic comes up every F***ing 2 weeks indeed.
And as usual the figures quoted are incorrect once again!

The first A380 in its standard configuration is indeed going to weigh close to 290 tons (depending on customer specifications) instead of 281 tons (and not 276 like the article said) Airbus originally mentioned in its TECHNICAL specifications to the users.

In short, not 14 tons overweight, but close to 8... for the prototye only!
There are still around 3 tons to be gained on the production aircraft, so the total overweight will indeed be about 4 tons.

Der Spiegel is using:
-) an old number for the Operating Weight 276t iso 281t
-) the prototype 'overweight' version.
-) no future improvements.
Hence the difference.

Yep, its summertime yet magazines have to find something to write about, don't they.... ?

 
Alessandro
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RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Mon Jul 05, 2004 6:48 pm

Here´s the article on the net,
http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/vorab/0,1518,307085,00.html
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
na
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RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Mon Jul 05, 2004 6:52 pm

FYI, the over-plan weight-savings: engine pylons -1,03 tons, center undercarriage, -064 tons, wingbox -031 tons, frontwheels - O,12 tons.

Sabenapilot, thank you for your comments. Makes it indeed look less bad. I wonder why Der Spiegel is a bit unprofessional here.
 
sabenapilot
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RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Mon Jul 05, 2004 7:04 pm

I don't know Na, but it could be partially Airbus fault too. After all, I really don't know why they still mention the 276 tons as the 'Typical Empty Operating Weight' for the A380-800 on their public website.

This EOW has been increased to 281tons long time ago, even before the program launch, if I recall correctly.

In the Maintenance Manual, dating Oct 03, we can find the real target numbers:

280,713kg for the A380 with 4 RR Trent 970 engines
and
280,724kg for the A380 with 4 GP 7270 engines.

 
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solnabo
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RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Mon Jul 05, 2004 8:19 pm

Talk about obesity!!!
No mall in the a/c, thats for sure....no waterfall, just wooden benches and no galleys: bring you´re own food  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Mike
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Ruscoe
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RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Mon Jul 05, 2004 8:34 pm

Airbus have been upping the MTOW to cover the increasing OEW, so it seems impossible to figure out what the real overweight problem is unless we know what they have promised the airlines.
However, any overweight in an aircraft is a problem. The only figure I have heard from Airbus itself was a 1% decrease in efficiency, but that was a couple of MTOW (corresponding I believe to OEW increases) hikes ago.

With an original claim of about 17% efficieny saving over the 747, it should still be ok, but if we have a couple more percent due to weight and a couple of percent due to unexpected aerodynamics, (pure speculation), then Airbus will have a serious problem on their hands. Even if they find a fix, it will need to come down the line and they would have some disgruntled customers and maybe deferments for a while. This will cause cash flow problems at a time when airbus need to respond to the 7E7 and the 73E.

Ruscoe
 
boeing767-300
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RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Mon Jul 05, 2004 9:18 pm

I don't know Na, but it could be partially Airbus fault too. After all, I really don't know why they still mention the 276 tons as the 'Typical Empty Operating Weight' for the A380-800 on their public website.

This EOW has been increased to 281tons long time ago, even before the program launch, if I recall correctly.


Oh Yeah... A380 is not overweight. Airbus listed the the weight wrong in the first instance and are now conveniently upping the weight to cover the "overweight" problems that are occurring.

This is significant especially given the CAD resources available today. The 14 tonnes is greater than initial 741 weight problems as a percentage. Someone will have to pay for the performance penalties... Probably AI if they can't deliver what was promised!!!




 
as739x
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RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Mon Jul 05, 2004 9:44 pm

Time for the "Atkins" Diet...no carb for the A380

Funny seeing a German magazine harping on a German (partly) product. Shouldn't they be looking for S**t to say about the 7E7?

Hope Airbus gets it figured out.

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
Guest

RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Mon Jul 05, 2004 10:04 pm

Ohhh i cannot stand these threads, none of us really know whats going on in Toulouse. The dang plane hasnt even flown yet!
 
pelican
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RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Mon Jul 05, 2004 10:12 pm

Funny seeing a German magazine harping on a German (partly) product. Shouldn't they be looking for S**t to say about the 7E7?

That's called independent press...  Yeah sure

We have to wait until the first bird is delivered.
And as much as I like "Der Spiegel" I have to say an attentive reader can find quite often bugs in their articles, mostly just details.

pelican




 
Tasha
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RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Mon Jul 05, 2004 10:18 pm

Has anyone considered that Der Spiegel is bringing this to light because there are serious problems with the A380; problems that Airbus is trying to perhaps, just perhaps, cover-up. Prototypes are as a general rule heavier - but fourteen metric tons!!!!!! Even if the production aircraft is only 8 tons heavier than planned, the additional fuel burn may not allow for the great improvements over the 35 year old B747 design. If this is the case, airlines will think twice about the acquisition of such a stupendously expensive aircraft as the A380, and Airbus' reputation will be tarnished immensely.

Tasha  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
Navion
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RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Mon Jul 05, 2004 10:22 pm

Roberta, The plane doesn't have to fly for the weight situation to be known. They know many things about this aircraft already. It is very heavy but it also should be a money maker as long as they can fill it up. There are markets which need this full capacity. The lounges, spas, and shopping areas are a load of bullshit. The A380 is much heavier than a 747 so the only way it makes money is by filling seats, not selling people extra drinks, duty free, or massages in spas. All of that crap is just glamour advertising. If an A380 fly's with 744 loads, the 744 will make more money. Therefore, the A380 needs to fill the seats to be the profit tool they intended. Everyone needs to remember that every extra pound an airplane has to carry costs fuel so carrying a few tons extra weight adds many millions of dollars of cost in the operation of the bird.
 
Tasha
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RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Mon Jul 05, 2004 10:35 pm

"If an A380 fly's with 744 loads, the 744 will make more money. Therefore, the A380 needs to fill the seats to be the profit tool they intended."

Very well stated!!!!
 
dl021
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RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Mon Jul 05, 2004 11:56 pm

WHo is paying for the costs to upgrade the limited number of airports that plan on servicing the A-380? How does this impact the operating costs for the airlines that use this airplane? Are these upgrades to the runways, taxiways etc going to be affected by any weight increases, and if so when do the architects need to know by in order to ensure safe operations of the aircraft at the various airports?

Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
mNeo
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RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Tue Jul 06, 2004 12:05 am

has anyone actually weighted the plane???
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boeingbus
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RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Tue Jul 06, 2004 12:43 am

Well, for Airbus' future this is very alarming coming... The weight issues has to drive up development costs as a lot of reegineering needs to take place.

Also, due to all the bad (European) press some airliners that were considering may now wait till she flies so complete performance measures are known before placing an order - as nobody wants to purchase lemons. I'm now less optimistic that Airbus will gain significant new orders before first delivery in 2006. 4 to 14 tons overweight, will they may achieve the range and speed of the 747? a disaster unless corrected!

Fortunately for Airbus, long term - they have enough orders to keep them busy to hopefully offer continuously weight and performance improvements.

Cheers!
Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
 
adriaticus
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RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Tue Jul 06, 2004 12:48 am

Even if correct in the end, 8 extra tons are not a whole lot considering its projected MTOW would be about 560 tons... About an effective 1.4 % that goes from payload to gross weight... And since payload is very seldomly used at 100%, the extra weight will not essentially hinder the plane's overall performance and efficiency...

Is this enough to crucify the project as some fellow a.netters would like to? Nah... Rather than being concerned about 1.4% extra weight, I'd be concerned about flying many empty seats or void cargo positions... And I have a feeling it's not very likely to happen...

__Ad.
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Guest

RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Tue Jul 06, 2004 12:51 am

Yes Navion i know how weight affects op costs. But do we really know the extent of the problem. Im not convinced its actually 14 tonnes overweight. Crap, last week it was only 4 tonnes overweight. Im sure Airbus have plans for this.

If an A380 fly's with 744 loads, the 744 will make more money.

True, but by flogging the remaining spare seats on the A380 the difference may be covered.
 
F4N
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RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:20 am

To all:


This topic does come up alot; maybe not every 2 weeks as Sabenapilot suggests, but it is becoming as regular as NW DC9's & 717's. However, I think that is because there really is an issue. Problems with high-profile projects invariably attract media attention. It has been brought up in the specialist Aviation press for some time and now it appears to be taken up by the general press worldwide. I believe that the WSJ was reporting not too long ago that Abus has been putting alot of pressure on suppliers to reduce weight of components. My past experience in fabrication suggests to me that Airbus may have more of a problem than they would care to admit. Now that the press is ahold of it, their PR problem could increase as well.

I have to assume that the figures that they have posted for the 388 are general approximations and that they have calculated to compensate for the inevitable increase in weight which ALWAYS comes as a machine nears production configuration. The notion of suggesting that the posted figures are absolutely spot-on and that the aviation press is spending time and money to publish outright lies is ludicrous at best and supremely naive at worst. There are simply too many stories popping up to believe that there is nothing to them. Most of this info is probably provided by people associated with the project itself.
Given the size of the beast and the sheer scope of the project, problems with weight were bound to be inevitable. I'm sure that Airbus will make this work since they have to; too much is riding on this project already. However, if they can't deliver on their much vaunted performance claims, then they will have a real problem.

regards,

F4N
 
Blackbird1331
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RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:20 am

I think they should trim it down a little and rename it the A370.
Cameras shoot pictures. Guns shoot people. They have the guns.
 
Navion
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RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:29 am

Great point F4N. I read that Wall Street Journal article on the Airbus subcontractors attempts to reduce the weight of their parts. There were some very clever ideas and a couple of scary ones! I wish I kept the article and could have reprinted it for this forum. I think the members here would really appreciate it. I thought it was a very balanced article (as I think virtually all WSJ articles are!).
 
Gman94
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RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:35 am

I'm sure every plane ever built hasn't lived up to the initial forecasts from the manufacturers.
British Airways - The Way To Fly
 
UAMAYBACH1239
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RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:43 am

Ohhh i cannot stand these threads, none of us really know whats going on in Toulouse. The dang plane hasnt even flown yet!


Its called technology, to be able to flag problems before the aircraft has flown.
This was Airbus braging right to find problems before hand. Now they want to wait for it to fly??????? Which is it ?
a/c flown 737-222/322/522 757/747-1-2-4, 767-2-3, 777-2-3, A319-20, DC10-10-30, L1011-3-5, 727-222adv, MD85-90 flyourfri
 
Guest

RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:50 am

Ohh for f*** sake i know you dont have to wait until the plane has flown to find out problems. You never know the full extent though.
 
sabenapilot
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RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:52 am

I see your point F4N, but does that mean then that if somebody repeats his claims enough times, even without any factual evidence to support them, we have to accept them anyhow as being true, simply because they are echoed all over?

Does the words 'WMD in Iraq' ring a bell to you?

The only facts we have is that until lately the production A380-800s were about 4 tons overweight compared to the latest reference figures as we can find them in the A380 Maintenance Manual. Most of this 'overweight' in fact comes from the specific demand of SQ to make the engines quieter so they will meet future more restrictive noise regulations.
That still leaves Airbus with around 2 tons of real overweight, for which they claim some last minute solutions have been proposed. According to an interview with Airbus chief designer Robert Lafontan, a full weighing of subassemblies around the different production sites, showed the A380 is about 0.2% below target weight.

If this man publicly dares to say his plane is now 0.2% BELOW target weight, I think it is sound to believe the A380 is not going to be overweight when delivered to the first customer. However, some people keep on bringing this story up, quoting wrong numbers, not taking into account more recent weight reductions and above all, using the weight of MSN001, which will indeed be heavier than the final production versions.

 
rjpieces
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RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:57 am

Well, if its 12 tons or 4 tons overweight, how will that effect performance? Any rough ideas?

I'm sure every plane ever built hasn't lived up to the initial forecasts from the manufacturers.

Boeing generally underestimates and then beats expectations! It just happened recently with the 777-300ER and will probably repeat itself with the 777-200LR.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
sllevin
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RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:57 am

No matter how you spin this, Airbus' CAD team clearly missed the mark by a greater margin than would be expected in today's world.

Historically, more and more issues are discovered closer to production -- thus, in a historical model, the A380 has even MORE coming down the road. Sure, it might not happen, but it would be foolish to assume that all issues have been surfaced at this time.
I will place my stake in the ground and guess that there are 10 tons more weight to be "found" on the airframe before it takes to the skies.

Steve
 
iowa744fan
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RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Tue Jul 06, 2004 2:20 am

Ohh for f*** sake i know you dont have to wait until the plane has flown to find out problems. You never know the full extent though.

Ohhh i cannot stand these threads, none of us really know whats going on in Toulouse. The dang plane hasnt even flown yet!

Roberta,
I find your posts extremely amusing here. You are harping about the wonders of their aircraft when the topic is pro Airbus. You have stated things like "other airlines will be sorry and need to follow suit in order to match the operating costs of airlines with the A380...etc." (ironic since you claim that we don't know the true performance of the aircraft) However, as soon as an anti-Airbus post comes out, you have to get all pissed off and whine incessantly about everyone else's comments and complain to no end. I just find this to be an interesting double-standard here Roberta. However, I guess that in your mind, you think that we all have to make these posts or what not to be something that is satisfactory to you.
Plus, because I know that you are going to try complaining at me about this topic, I am not posting this because I like Boeing. Up until this point, I have not mentioned Boeing, and I am not going to start mentioning anything about what Boeing does or their aircraft.
 
F4N
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RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Tue Jul 06, 2004 2:21 am

Sabenapilot:

Thank you for the courteous response. These seem to be few and far-between on a-net these days.

I would hardly suggest that unsubstantiated claims are a substitute for facts. What I am suggesting though is that the mere fact that this topic keeps surfacing in various, and I would think, reputable, publications indicates that there is more to it than meets the eye. I have to believe that insiders are feeding journalists this info and because of it I would also suggest that Airbus is currently in full damage-control mode. Sorry, but having Mr. Lafontan stating that the opposite is true is no more convincing than watching Donald Rumsfeld or Colin Powell make the Sunday morning round of news-shows claiming things are going to plan for the administration in Iraq(thought you might like the analogy). It's hardly like he would say otherwise.

Personally, I am always skeptical of performance related claims by manufacturers which are engaged in intense rivalries with their competitors. I doubt that 7e7 will be everything that Boeing claims. Words and figures can do funny things while trying to gain sales. How you handle the situation afterwards is what makes or breaks.

regards,

F4N
 
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solnabo
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RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Tue Jul 06, 2004 2:27 am

If you read "The History Of Boeing" they too had problems with weight on the 747 in the making of it, so I´m not worried...lets see this beauty in 2 years and then cheer or axe it  Smile/happy/getting dizzy Simple as that!! My 5000 ören......
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
steve7e7
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RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Tue Jul 06, 2004 2:31 am

14 tons overweight.Hmmmm........once they find the Captain's wallet it should be somewhere near it's target weight  Big grin

Steve.
 
D-aqui
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RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Tue Jul 06, 2004 2:44 am

When it comes to aviation issues "Der Spiegel" has never been a reliable source. You should read back copies on aviation topics in "Der Spiegel" from years ago with hindsight and would see things more level headed. Does anyone consider the engineers to be as dull as all that?

*Sigh*

D-AQUI
 
iowa744fan
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RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Tue Jul 06, 2004 2:52 am

Sorry, but having Mr. Lafontan stating that the opposite is true is no more convincing than watching Donald Rumsfeld or Colin Powell make the Sunday morning round of news-shows claiming things are going to plan for the administration in Iraq

F4n, loved the comparison!  Smile
 
Guest

RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:12 am

other airlines will be sorry and need to follow suit in order to match the operating costs of airlines with the A380...etc."

Given that was a business related (and a very off the cuffs and incidently could be used with the 7E7 too) theory i chose to ignore the technical problems of the Aircraft. And if i recall i said "would feel pressure" and "may swing them into buying the A380" not "would be sorry".

And the rest of your thread is just crap, completely blown out of proportion.
 
iowa744fan
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RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Tue Jul 06, 2004 4:08 am

Given that was a business related (and a very off the cuffs and incidently could be used with the 7E7 too) theory i chose to ignore the technical problems of the Aircraft.

I am a bit confused by this one:
If an aircraft is heavier than anticipated, this affects its performance, specifically fuel costs per passenger per km flown. Thus, the aircraft is more expensive for the airline to operate (not saying a lot, but it is more expensive or the range of an aircraft is decreased, etc). Can you explain to me how this has nothing to do with the business aspect of running an airline?

And the rest of your thread is just crap, completely blown out of proportion

Boy, that is a really well thought out response. I may just have to think a few days to come up with a response that sophisticated and classy!  Yeah sure

Basically, you are proving my point. You seem to have no problem criticizing others, but as soon as you are getting criticized, you get all defensive and need to have your way.
 
Guest

RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Tue Jul 06, 2004 4:26 am

If an aircraft is heavier than anticipated, this affects its performance, specifically fuel costs per passenger per km flown.

Not a problem for the Airlines, they'll be getting compensation from Airbus.

Boy, that is a really well thought out response. I may just have to think a few days to come up with a response that sophisticated and classy!

I feel for ya man that took me about 5 seconds (which might indicate how much time I have for you). And in all honesty I think you have totally blown it out of proportion.
 
Tom_EDDF
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RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Tue Jul 06, 2004 4:29 am

Basically, "Der Spiegel" is a fairly left wing news magazine publishing some anti-A380 "propaganda" since the very beginning of the A3XX project. They are very negative in particular on the runway extension at Finkenwerder airport, which becomes necessary to make A380s take off and land at Airbus' Hamburg facilities. This might make them a bit biased on anything related to the A380.

"Der Spiegel" often times is very sceptical towards big and risky industrial projects, especially if government subsidies are involved (the high speed magnetic train "transrapid" is another good example).

Even though they are a credible source in general, I would not trust them on this particular issue. They are most likely driven by the political aspects of the program, not so much its technological challenges. They also state "experts believe that..." (blablabla) - does not sound very convincing to me.
 
boeingbus
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RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Tue Jul 06, 2004 4:42 am

More news off the presses....


http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/apbiz_story.asp?category=1310&slug=France%20Airbus%20Superjumbo

'an Airbus spokeswoman said, the largest commercial airliner ever built will weigh 319 tons - about 5 percent heavier than the previous target.'

"Even assuming it was slightly heavier but on the other side you have better aerodynamics, the end result is that you are meeting performance," she said.

According to Teal, the 319-ton A380 would weigh in at 1,153 pounds per passenger, compared with 913 pounds for a Boeing 747-400.

------------

and what is this????????

The A380's 656-seater version, to be launched later on, comes in at 961 pounds per passenger.
Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
 
a380900
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RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Tue Jul 06, 2004 4:56 am

319 tons is referring to "short tons" (whatever that is). As it happens 319 "short tons" amount to 290 metric tons.

Could you guys overseas use our tons? The metric system rules. Airbus rules. Europe rules. Resistance is futile.

edit: a "short ton" is 1.103 metric ton or 2000 pounds. Now, could you US people be reasonable and give us a break with this "short ton" business?

[Edited 2004-07-05 22:02:09]
 
Guest

RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Tue Jul 06, 2004 4:58 am

319 tons is referring to "short tons"

Phew, i was about to cry there.  Smile
 
AA777
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RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Tue Jul 06, 2004 5:00 am

I'm sure every plane ever built hasn't lived up to the initial forecasts from the manufacturers.

Not true... the 777's have met and / or exceeded all of Boeings initial performance forecasts.

Anyhow, if the A380 is overweight... well what do you expect? Its not everyday that an A/C manufacturer makes a double deck airplane. If the A380 doesnt meet its performance expectations because of the wieght problems... well... then let boeing introduce the 747X ...  Big grin
Anyhow, all I am saying is that the airlines will have to deal with it, and hopefully Airbus will find a way to reduce the weight somehow. (Maybe the EXTRA use of composites wont seem so bad now... (as people seem to criticize the 7E7.))

-AA777
 
access-air
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RE: Door Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Tue Jul 06, 2004 5:07 am

The proof will be in when the thing becomes airborne for the first time.....and when it does we shall see what happens....
Until then everything is all speculation.....The good and the bad....
Let's just hope that engineers are being 100% truthful about any weight problems and not trying to make tradeoffs for weight with inferior materials used to construct the plane...that would be horrible.
Not saying they would, but then Look What McDonnell Douglas did with regards to the faulty cargo doors they subcontracted to General Dynamics...Faulty latch that lead to a couple of near disasters in the US and one fatal disaster in Paris. All because they didn't make doubly darned sure that everything was exactly prefect....
Just a thought...

Access-Air
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dynkrisolo
Posts: 1849
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 12:12 am

RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Tue Jul 06, 2004 5:21 am

quotes from http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/apbiz_story.asp?category=1310&slug=France%20Airbus%20Superjumbo


"These are our working assumptions," the spokeswoman, Barbara Kracht, said when questioned about the report.

The weight of an aircraft has a direct impact on its fuel efficiency, a key benchmark for airlines deciding what planes to buy.



But Kracht insisted that the A380 Airbus will still meet its fuel efficiency target - 81 miles for one gallon of kerosene per passenger - when the plane goes into service in spring 2006.

"That remains the objective and remains what we will match," she said.



First, they told the world they were on schedule, on budget, and on weight. Now, they finally admit to the weight problem after the latest report, but insist they will meet targets. I don't think the weight problem suddenly appeared in the past month. So why should I believe them if they lied just a month ago?
 
aerobalance
Posts: 4312
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2000 8:35 am

RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Wed Jul 07, 2004 2:26 am

You know that Boeing is so ready to swoop in and offer a buy-back program to sell their 744-Advanced aircraft if the A380 does not live up to expectations....
"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13899
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Der Spiegel: A380 14 Tons Overweight

Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:02 am

I´ve read the "Spiegel" magazine every week since I was ten years old. One thing they don´t excell in is accuracy concerning aviation. In short, they published a lot of bovine manure in the past.
Another thing is that more traffic at Airbus´s Finkenwerder airport would affect the rich people living in the wealthy Blankenese district on the other side of the Elbe river in Hamburg. Der Spiegel has been writing against the A380 project since it started and esp. since they wanted to fill in a bay of the Elbe river to extend their runway, looking for political scandals. Don´t forget, the headquarters of "Der Spiegel" are in Hamburg, and I suspect at least some of the owners are living in this district.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi

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