Ansett's 767-277s With 3-Man Flt Crew

lorm · Wed Aug 18, 2004 2:44 pm

Okay, here's the short stuff.... LOL VC-10 eradicated my other full post so here's the condensed version Wink/being sarcastic

I'll just post the regs and pictures of the Ansetts 3 person crewed 767-227s. Starlionblue brought this up in the 737 3 crew thread https://www.airliners.net/discussions/tech_ops/read.main/96493/ and I remember reading about this in Airliners, and currently there are no cockpit pictures of them in the a.net database (Someone must have at least one shot in their collection!). If you want to read the text from the original article published in Airliners Nov/Dec 1998, personal message me. As we all know Ansett is gone and probably so are these aircraft (I didn't bother to check the DB on msn/regs).

Basically in a NUT shell, the first 5 original 767-277s delivered to Ansett in 1983-84 were delivered with 3 person crewed flight decks, which included an engineers station. These were the only 767s to be delivered this way. When Ansett's 767 order was placed, AFAP (Australian Federation of Air Pilots) and AAFEA (Australian Airline Flight Engineers Association) insisted that their aircraft be operated by two pilots and an engineer. Eventually all 5 were converted into standard a standard two pilot cockpit by the time Ansett went out of business.

767-277 VH-RMD msn22692 regdate 06/06/83 ex N8278V Boeing House Colors
767-277 VH-RME msn22693 regdate 06/13/83 ex N8292V " "
767-277 VH-RMF msn22694 regdate 06/22/83 ex N8287V " "
767-277 VH-RMG msn22695 regdate 08/23/83 ex N8289V " "
767-277 VH-RMH msn22696 regdate 09/20/84 ex N1791B " "

Before!

After!

Both images © Chris Boulton

Edit: Funny thing is the article had the AAFEA as Australasian and not Australian. Posted it 2 times mispelled as I thought it really was that (Shows how much I know about Australia.) Thought it looked odd, did a search on google just now and of course it's Australian!

[Edited 2004-08-18 07:58:18]

AJ · Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:44 pm

Nicely done.

I did the first few simulators for my 767 endorsement in the Ansett Simulator at Tullamarine. The simulator still had the ability to be converted from a two to a three person layout, with the F/E's station represented!

lorm · Wed Aug 18, 2004 7:38 pm

Hi AJ, it's neat to know you've seen this in action,
Engineers station looks like quite a setup for even an early glass cockpit setup. It's too bad there wasn't a shot of the overhead panel with the flight engineer's station installed. Obviously there is EICAS in the upfront panel and here in the engineer station with its related page switches, event log and recalls.

What I wonder is, looking at the full engineer station, were most of these essential panels simply relocated from the overhead to the engineers panel and not duplicated in the overhead pilot panel? The article from Airways I referenced made no mention if they were just duplicated and what got moved. I can make out at least, in the top photo essential stuff like the Pneumatics panel, Electrical, and Environmental control panel and the obligatory Audio panel. Were these completely removed from the front overhead to the F/E position? If so, these 5 unique aircraft really made the point about having an engineer onboard. With so many systems now automated in an EICAS style cockpit, you really wouldn't think there would be much for the engineer to do. It seems like he really didn't just have to watch the screen the whole flight. Bottom photo after converted to normal looks like all that's left is the audio panel for the observer and a few squib and test panels.
-Mike

vhqpa · Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:14 pm

AN and TN also had the same problems introducing DC-9s to their fleets in the late 60's. AFAP insisted they'd be fitted the a FE station (IIRC it was because it carried more then a certain number of pax). However AN and TN won and flew their DC-9s without a FE.

J

Jetlagged · Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:39 pm

This thread contains a post by Starlionblue showing the F/E station of the 767-277 before and after mods.
B757 & 767 Flight Deck Differences (by HAWK21M Aug 18 2006 in Tech Ops)

SkydrolBoy · Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:59 pm

Quoting Lorm (Thread starter):
767-277 VH-RMF msn22694 regdate 06/22/83 ex N8287V " "

This Particular A/C is still flying, it is now registered N767MW and just had a complete interior modification done at Kelowna Flightcraft. You can see Pictures of it at www.mlwair.com